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RE: Is SBI Still Taboo Or Is It A Valuable Tool On Hive?

in The CTP Swarm2 years ago

Actually, since I got back into Hive at the end of 2021, it was something that was actively reccomended to me!

People welcomes me back and sent me HBI, they reccomended I build up some HBI, when I onboarded my kids people actively sent THEM HBI too, and recently I even won HBI as part of a contest I got 1st place on.

Because of this, I've also returned the favor or put it forward and sponsored others.

So it costs Hive to sponsor someone and you both get 1 HBI.

1x HBI won't change your world.

As a trade off that 1 HBI could have been 1 HP. That HP would earn you both interest and increase your curation rewards.

I can't yet decide if I want to sponsor 1000 HBI or if I want 1000HP?

It's a bit too complicated for me to calculate.

I know some people who have over 2000 HBI...yet they dont post every day.

I've determined to just relax and gather a little here and there, but I do not know that it is a "taboo" anything.

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The good thing about HSBI is you don't have to feel pressured to post everyday - the pending balance mechanisms adjusts exactly to deliver to you the votes that have built up over time! You can even go on vacation and come back to massive votes.

Indeed! That is advantageous. I post daily so I don't see a massive accumulation from the SBI accounts.

I think I only have 24 HBI though... I will maybe increase that to about 50 by the end of the year. We shall see!

yup. It encourages me to come back and post when I've been gone for a bit. There's nothing worse than less than 0.10 payouts.

1000 HP first for sure. It goes with the "not your keys, not your crypto" theme.

But they're still cool to collect, especially when you win them or give rhem away as welcomes.

Indeed. I don't think I will try get much HBI until getting that 1000HP mark... which I am fairly confident I will reach before the end of August! I started 1st of January on 313HP so I am super stoked about that! 🍻

Nice!

That's a good growth pattern.

Thanks! I do as well as I can! I also spend my time teaching and inspiring others to join Hive! Together the students I onboarded this year are over 700HP already. Most of that in 4 accounts!

Just before we forked to Hive, it was quite the little bit of drama lol

I always thought it was a great idea, but some felt it was vote buying.

!CTP

It might seem that way, but as I said, we havent really got the math down to prove if it is an exploit or actually just a different way of spending your Hive.

As usual, it only really starts turning heads when someone DOES do something exploitive with it.

Consider this:

I have myself, my wife and my three kids on Hive. My wife and I both contribute content, a variety. We aren't bringing massive money from outside Hive, we bring content and we bring other people. We make the platform busy and worthwhile and social. We teach our kids.

As time goes by, I sponsor a little HBI here and there to my wife and kids and my own HBI stacks up. In a matter of years I might have a couple of hundred or a thousand.

I have been posting regularly on Hive for years by this point, earning crypto for my time. The SBI votes will have increased but will be insignificant compared to all the other votes I have built up by then. Look at your average votes on a post as an example.

I don't consider this exploitive behavior.

Now imagine an exploitive behavior by someone who has no altruism at heart and wishes only to profit.

They come to Hive with $1,000,000 and build 2 or more accounts with fairly chunky bits of HP. Then they buy thousands of HBI tokens, sponsoring their alt account. Now both have HBI.

Now this person starts posting with both accounts. They don't break any rules such as plagiarizing, spamming or posting in the wrong community, but what they post is garbage.

They do not engage with others and do not follow or vote for other people's stuff. Just the two(or more) alt accounts. Each will earn from votes on HBI(SBI) and their own votes. Their content is just enough to not get into trouble but adds nothing to the platform or to our little society.

THAT would be exploiting the rewards pool. they will start pulling their $1mil back and go beyond, draining Hive of value in exchange for nothing.

These are interesting scenarios to consider. The first case is our intended audience. You build some up, you build up your wife, your kids, value accrues and you get rewards whenever you post, but you don't have to post everyday because you keep accruing value even when you don't post.
The second is something that we would consider to be an 'attack vector' that we think about a lot. There are some ameliorating factors.

  • our focus on sustainability means that the APR on Hive SBI is only marginally better than just powering up and upvoting yourself. (Double if you sponsor alts, of course, but then you get double if you self-vote from alts too.)
  • 'bad apples' like quick returns and it's HARD to get your money back out of Hive SBI if you need to split, it makes it a good choice for somebody making a long-term commitment but a terrible choice for somebody planning to be abusive. (This is the part that the DV crew didn't understand when they likened it to vote-selling. Vote Selling was 100%+ ROI within a week, so you could run the most abusive content and still come out ahead if you got caught. You would have to run abusive content for years to make your returns from Hive SBI).
  • we do have a quality policy, and we're not afraid to skiplist accounts when we receive reports of bad behavior. In the future, account review and skip-listing will be managed by our DAO.
  • our maximum vote per post is actually kind of small. We target a VP level between 40-60% and it tends to fall a little when HIVE is spiking because inactive accounts start posting again. The fluctuations are mostly invisible to smaller members, but very noticeable to our 'whales'. $5-10 per day isn't enough of a return on capital for even the minimal effort of posting 'junk' to attract many whales that don't embrace our values or buy into our vision.

In the few cases where your second scenario has played out, we had some conversations with the user, skip-listed their account temporarily, and then coordinated with them to transfer units to respected community accounts when they decided to move on.

Thank you very much @steembasicincome. I really like those answers!

I agree that it would take forever to get your money back but it is nice and positive growth. I like the fact that you can reward someone else like a gift with HBI and also get some yourself. Building up my family accounts helps the kids with low payouts as they arent expected to be Hive rockstars. It takes little to motivate them and it helps.

I was not aware that HBI was transferrable? How does one manage it? All I have done up till now is buy it on peakd.

I learn new things every day!

There is also an option "sbi skip" I forget how to use it. You can skip your upvotes while the price of hive is low, so you can save you SBI votes for when the price of hive is high.

Ooooooh! That's interesting! Let me know if you figure it out again!

But I suppose with 24 HBI it does not matter too much?

#sbi-skip

has to be in the body of the post, and it skips out your vote.

I don't really know how much difference it makes, its just a tidbit I read about on a post the other day. Someone only posts when hive price is "high" so they can save up their SBI upvotes. Its easy enough to do a similar thing by skipping the payout.

It is not exploiting, it is investing.

The 1,000,000 is locked up forever - that helps the eco-system.

And, who gets to decide what "garbage" is. An account which posts short content and gets great payouts is a massive marketing (for the blockchain) opportunity.

I don't think a short post is garbage at all. But there IS some actual garbage out there. lol

Luckily, we choose on hive who to follow and usually we will not be exposed to that kind of content since we follow people with similar interests as ourselves within communities.

You WONT see the garbage posts supported by massive amounts of HBI. They could remain completely hidden, posted on obscure communities or personal blogs with a single, non-trending tag.

However, as @steembasicincome has stated, if someone really is milking the system with rubbish (real exploitive rubbish) then they can skip-list someone.

We are not talking about a short post here. We are talking about arbitrary posts with no meaning or value that you would NOT want to showcase. I have seen stuff like that. I am not going to link an example. I don't need enemies! lol

That's a great example. And yeah I never thought of SBI as an exploit, I loved the project. Heck I did like 3000 SBI sponsored shares or something lol

I believe it was mentioned in another comment, the culture was much different back then. And we were just ending our 'bid bot' relationships lol

Indeed. I think that we all want to see a sustainable model for earning on the blockchain. A place where today's effort itself has the financial interest capability to make a difference in our lives in the future and not just go hand to mouth.

Anything that threatens this will be targeted by the many members of the community.

Back in the day when I played a lot of Warhammer 40,000 I was often called the Loop-hole Master. 🤣🤣🤣

It's a GOOD thing to explore weaknesses in a system if your objective is sustainability.

Man, STEEM used to drama all kinds of dumb stuff. I remember when SPI was targeted. The thing is that since we didn't operate based off upvotes, it didn't affect the project.