Update on Switch to HIVE (Including update on rentals)

in PeakMonsters4 years ago (edited)
Authored by @jarvie

Peakmonsters needs to be on the same Blockchain as @splinterlands
Splinterlands has announced they are moving to HIVE on monday June 1st.
Therefore we are moving to HIVE.

Buy  Sell  Bid.png

We are still in planning for the move though we have already started preparation and we'll keep you up to do date but here's how it's looking right now.

STAGE 1 - Buying and Listing

MARKET
We hope to have buying from the market up and running first thing.
We must note that Splinterlands has said their market protocol will only be with DEC and Credits to begin with... and only with DEC that is in the Splinterlands wallet not in your own wallet on Hive-Engine.

LISTING CARDS
We also want to get listing of cards up and running right away.
Basically we believe most all the features on the collection and bulk view should be available.

PURCHASE HISTORY
We will also include account history of purchases and the total volume stats

STAGE 2 - BIDS / CREDITS / SETS

BIDS
We want to get BIDS up and running as soon as possible but it's unlikely to be running right away. But this will be the focus. What makes it difficult is that the old PeakCredits will not be usable because they are on Steem and buying with Hive would be easy to integrate but like we mentioned before Hive is not available for purchase on the splinterlands market protocol which we use.

When bids does get transitioned it is likely that bids will be all new and the past history of bids and credit transactions submitted will not transition. (though card orders will)

But we do need some sort of CREDITS system in order to buy cards for you with money you temporarily trust to us so that we can buy for you. This is perhaps our biggest focus right now trying to solve this issue.

SETS is a feature related to the market that won't take too much effort to move over.

UNCERTAIN

  • Explorer, My Explorer, My Battlechain ... we haven't decided if we are moving these to user only services or for everyone like in the past. Stay Tuned.

NOT INCLUDED IN 1 AND 2

  • Rentals
  • Loyalty rewards ... though figuring out the credits for bids leads to this so it could be part of stage 2 or stage 2.5

RENTALS

Lots of questions about rentals these days ... we have some good news to start with

We will continue to support present contracts

Our goal we are working really hard for is to keep watching your rental contracts on the HIVE blockchain and keep paying owners and keep track of contract status and help with the escrows using peakcredit that you have on the STEEM blockchain.

Also... PEAKCREDIT ON STEEM IS UNCHANGED

We do understand many will withdraw from PeakCredit on Steem because peakcredit will no longer work for BIDS and Regular market purchases and Rentals is changing. We don't mind if you withdraw it's your credit you can do whatever you want with it.

In any case that's the good news that all your rentals will continue to be supported.


THE FUTURE OF RENTALS

We don't know exactly what the future for rentals will bring.
I think after we solve how to create a CREDIT system that works for BIDS on hive we will know better how to support rentals. This starts with deciding which token to support seeing that Hive is not supported for buying of cards.

.. our original goal for Rentals was to support splinterlands and bring users in indirectly to PeakMonsters. We knew we wouldn't make much money directly (which we didn't as it presently makes about $90 a month ...aka an hour of programming time for many developers)... we're not sure how much indirect exposure it has brought to PeakMonsters and the rental procedure was likely too complicated but for all but already seasoned players.

NEW RENTALS TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE

we have presently suspended new rentals until we have a better idea about the future of rentals.

WHEN WILL THEY COME BACK?
Later on after the switch we will consider doing a rental system on the Hive based PeakMonsters ... we will wait until we figure out how we handle Credits for bids and so many other questions which will help educate us on how to make rentals better.

SOME QUESTIONS

  • How to make it better for owners?
    ... less time consuming, easier UI, simpler system now that cooldown rules are much easier to deal with for ongoing renters.
  • How to make it better for renters?
    ... less time consuming, easier faster UI, one simple price to consider, just choose their cards and not have them go through the different prices, we match them with cards.
  • How to make it better for PeakMonsters
    ... we are interesting in figuring out a system that actually has better financial incentive for PeakMonsters.

YOUR RENTAL INPUT

We know that rentals is gonna be the thing people miss the most. However rentals was slowly dying (it was 33% of what it was just back in January it went from $162/day in rentals to $58/day in rentals this last week) which means it was due for an overhaul... something wasn't working.

So we are open to conversation about what we can do with it moving forward and how to make it great for users and motivating for PeakMonsters to take a crack at it again.

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Renting cards has to be made easier somehow.

Currently it is a hassle to rent a full team card by card.
And it is even harder if you don't know what are the optimal cards to rent for your team.

Totally agreed!

I was always interested in renting (as an owner) entire sets, as opposed to individual cards.

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Why can't you just keep accepting Steem and SBD for rentals? If there is demand for both renters and rentees, why not accept that until such time as you have a replacement?

ps... thanks for the update!

This is my personal opinion: that rentals system is somewhat of a sub-optimal (failed) product. Which sucks because it was mostly my brainchild. I don't think it works well and I am not excited about having it on the site. And then combine that we are unconvinced of the financial benefits that gives another reason to not support it as it is.

I think stopping new rentals maybe motivates us and others to help figure out a product that will work much better.

With the cooldown changes we can do something so much better seeing that deciding a length of contract isn't that important because renters can just keep renting.


I would love to see a renter come in and decide which cards they want and we simply rent out to them all those cards. With one price per rental that means the best price goes to the user.

And then if a card is no longer available from an owner the renter just clicks a button and the card is rented again they don't even have to care who they're renting from they just tell us which cards they want.

That's the kind of system that i think would work to bring in new users. The kind of system I think I'd be more proud of.

Also something fast and easy for both renters and owners.

I don't know if your ideas of what you want to see is better or not, but I certainly wouldn't try to challenge you on figuring out a good solution (ie you and asgarth have earned much respect by me and others).

I do however think you are wrong about the value of the rental system you have developed. I don't think its failed at all, in fact I would argue without it the game would've never progressed to the point where it is today (on the good progression side of things). I know many people rely on rentals and I think you will hear an outcry when its removed. That's ok since as you said there wasn't much money in it for you, but to me its a shame that @aggroed and @yabapmatt didn't figure out how to support you guys a little extra for the value the rental system brought to the game.

In my opinion the game will suffer in the short run as a result of it being stopped.

Having said that, it is what it is and I look forward to what you come out with to replace it. And maybe next time the devs will appreciate the value it brings more. (ps... its a shame to have to go through these ups and downs when the value is so obvious in my opinion, but in the long run I think we will get there and thanks for all you both do!!!)

The rental system you have in place is the only thing that has kept me playing tbh. So, No. It is not a failure. And with most of my rentals expiring by the end of this season, I'll probably skip the next seasin till a time rentals are active again.

I think the best solution would be to keep the system that is in place as it is, and work on improvements in the background.

Deactivating the rental system will in fact discourage a lot of new players like myself.

Again, the rental system is NOT A FAILURE! Please keep it going. Thanks for the work you guys put into this.

If that's the case rentals kept you playing then I hope a better rental system will make you even happier.

It definitely will! But wouldn’t it be better to keep the current system running, until a better system is ready?

Can't you just let the current system stay for a while until the new system reaches the final stages before implementation?

I agree with that idea @jarvie, rent any letter anytime and anywhere without depending on another tenant who has the letter available.

Although I know it has cost you a lot of work in programming that aspect in "peakmonters", it is really successful for people like me and for thousands of Spanish speakers within the game who do not have many resources to buy cards directly in the market.

Thank you very much for the great work, I look forward to the new rental market and many successes.

I'm one of those who mainly plays using rented cards. I was sad to hear that rentals will be stopped. But now that I imagine the rental scenario you mention here. This looks so awesome! I hope it doesn't take too much time to create though...

Thanks guys for your great work and that you are moving the market to HIVE. Splinterlands wouldn't be the same without peakmonsters market.
I think rentals will become more attractive again when Splinterlands fixes the league and reward system...also Bots are very concerning to most players. If Gameplay improves over time than there is going to be more interest in rentals again.

S**t! No new rentals? Back to the minor leagues for me then once my rentals expire.

I sold a card once and recieved STEEM direct to my STEEM wallet from Peakmonsters the first time I sold, I think it was a gold..

Anyways, now when I sell I am paid in PeakCredit only and I seem unable to withdraw since it says "You need at least 0.001 STEEM/SBD in order to use wallet services" but I've no idea how to convert the Peakcredit to STEEM or set up the market to pay me in STEEM.

Good news!

This may not be of interest, and you may already be aware:

For a new rental system (assuming DEC is involved) you could streamline the DEC depositing by using sm_token_transfer directly from and to a users Splinterlands DEC balance to PeakMonsters Credit system. This would make the process more friendly for those newer players inexperienced with HIVE.

The rental market is really important but i think its something thats on the Splinterlands team to do.
It needs more exposure in the game itself and it needs to be set up in the marketplace just like selling cards is.
Now, i know that is not connected to peakmonsters but maybe you could help develop it? I dunno.

Even myself that has maybe missed 3 weeks of play in 2 years just got reminded of how amazing it was renting a splinter for a couple weeks.
Its because the rental market lacks EXPOSURE

I never even understood how the renting works?

Tried to rent yesterday for my push into Diamond 1 and got cucked..😐😐 I knew it had something to do with the move to Hive.

need a RENT button near the BUY / FOR SALE button on splinterlands

i pretty much figured out all the stuff on the peakmonsters site but the rental thingo always looked too complicated for me. Or maybe just too lazy :)

Thanks for your continued effort. Would love to rent / put up for rent, cards in the future

I invest $ 100 to start renting max level cards. About 120 cards in total at the end. I paid $ 3 a day for it.

From the daily playing, quest, the prize league, and the tournament, I managed to pay for rented cards and to be in the top 50, even 25 at the end of the last few leagues.

I didn't make money in the end because I had to pay rented cards, but I enjoyed playing the game with the best players.

From now on I will play with my cards, I have all level 4 UNTAMED summoners. Maybe I'll make it to the champion league. And feel what it’s like to play relaxed and earn DEC to keep it.

I hope you find a way to start renting on your site again, maybe someone will do what I did and enjoy the game in the same way.

it would be cool to take over the account delegation service like otterworks had or monstermarket kinda has... A lot of people are looking to delegate accounts or play with them and it would bind people to your brand

Hi.
To do the Renting in DEC might be the right thing to promote this feature for the gamers, between the gamers. Also you will help the DEC sink!

About the renting

I am a long time renting my cards as well as renting from others and want to point out here why I want @peakmonsters to keep the renting alive. Also, I think I can point to a right direction for making it more profitable for everyone. In the end everything is up to @peakmonsters.

Renting my cards have come to a point of having 20+ renters every day. As I had no cards in the beginning, it is out of that renting experience that I can try to convince you that renting the cards is so important for @splinterlands.
  • The beginners are benefiting greatly from renting, but a work on explaining them how to use their daily DEC and other investment for renting important cards would be necessary here.
  • Strong players are also benefit greatly, as they already invested a lot in their cards, they probably need some advertising about profitability of renting.
  • @Splinterlands is benefiting, as in game mechanism for renting is not existing, and the renting is adding positively to other reasons for newcomers to stay and start investing.
Improving the renting

Something is very wrong with the renting market, and you are pointing out here that income is getting lower over time. I am noticing that majority of renting prices are hammered to 0.001 USD, and some are still being even 0.000 USD. Also, I understand that such contracts are being wiped away in real exchange market, because such markets are self regulating and low value orders are no problem. In case of renting at @peakmonsters, low value contracts are not possible to be removed and are ruining everything.

IMO @peakmonsters should make a unique regulation for the renting as it is not a real exchange market. My idea would be to have a measure that would limit the minimum renting price for every card individualy. Any rise form a 0.001 USD price is large and should positively affect on income. Of course, such minimum prices need to be very carefully valuated as it also need to encourage the renting. It is my understanding that many cards are rented for 0.001 USD with no healthy reason, I only see individuals being desperate to get anything out of valuable cards, and such contracts are all time coming back, never removing from market.

IMO all markets at @peakmonsters need to be reworked for better users' experience.

Full account rental system

I believe it would be nice to have the possibility to make a full account rental service. Instead of a card by card rental. It's simply too complicated and time consuming for all parties.

Let's say I would like to rent out an account with a special set of cards. If there are cards I don't want to rent I simply transfer them beforehand to another account.

For the duration of the rental agreement, all the cards of the account are delegated to the new renter. I would suggest a minimum of 4 weeks (two seasons). Renter pays 2 weeks upfront and 2 weeks in escrow (or longer).

Since it is easy to evaluate the value of a whole account (already on peakmonsters), it would be quite easy to define prices for such a rental

Advantages

When somebody wants to rent cards, it means that he wants to play with higher level cards to get more dec and rewards. Renting a whole account requires only one contract to deal with. It's simple for the one who rents out and the one who is renting. Peakmonsters takes a 5-10% cut on these contracts that would also be much higher in value.

There would be only one market defined by value of the cards in the account. It is easy to compare and potential renters could surf through the account to see what is available and whether it is worth the investment.

  • Much simpler to implement and understand: one market, one price index (value of the account)
  • Since the fees would be higher, more comissions for Peakmonsters

Best regards,
Achim

Why not use DEC as credits for bids and rentals?

DECs are transferable like steem(*1) or hive. There can be "normal" DEC in game usable for normal purchases plus "custodial" DEC that is simply transferred to peakmonsters and works like credits for bids, rentals and/or credit purchases. Do I miss something important here?

*1: well for most people and for now, dunno what will Justin do in future, but that's not point of this reply.