When sending it doesn't work

in Outdoors and more3 years ago (edited)

It was a typical Saturday; An early wake up, bacon and eggs at a café on the way to the range then some run and gunning for a few hours...Well, more than some today as I sent 400 rounds to their doom in a mini-competition then stayed to do some practice. Good fun and the practice was worth it, as always but...I had some ammunition issues.

I do a practical style of shooting called IPSC, International Practical Shooting Confederation. It simulates real-world situations, military and law enforcement, and is scored by time and accuracy. It's fast-paced and stages are dynamic, moving shooters and targets most of which need to be double-tapped...Like I said, it's designed to simulate real-world shooting situations.

In a course of fire one may shoot as many 40-50 rounds in only a handful of seconds, say, 13-22 seconds, and that's with the reloading, running and transitioning between targets also; Some stages include a lot of running, it depends on who designs them on any given day.

Equipment needs to work perfectly, including the ammunition. If something malfunctions precious time is lost and in a sport where split seconds separate shooters it's not cool when problems occur. Today I had a couple rounds that let me down for whatever reason and...When my ammunition lets me down it get's destroyed! I say destroyed, but recycled is a better word as the ammunition gets dismantled and eventually reconstructed.

Dismantling ammunition

This is done by way of a kinetic bullet puller. It's essentially a plastic hammer thing that uses kinetic energy, a fancy way of saying movement, then a sudden stop to get the bullet free from the case. This releases the gun powder also.

One loads the ammunition into the tool, smacks it hard on a lump of firmly grounded wood, I use my workbench, and the bullet is removed from the case along with the gun powder. It is all retained in the bottom of the puller so it doesn't go everywhere; The operator simply removes it and proceeds to the next.

Why dismantle

There's many reasons why a round may need dismantling including one forgetting to put gun powder in during the reloading phase, not being sure that the right powder was used, a primer was faulty, fell out or was inserted upside down to name but a few reasons.

Above you can see three of the rounds I dismantled today. The top left had the primer inserted upside down, top right the primer fell out and the bottom is a light primer-strike which means the firing pin hit the primer but it did not ignite and explode into the gun powder in the case. I had a few others too, but these were the main offenders. There's reason's the issues occur, maybe I'll explain in another post sometime.

The most dangerous here is the one with the primer upside down. If that primer ignited in the gun it could cause some damage to the shooter or firearm.

Getting the bullet pullet ready to operate

The bullet puller comes with a number of collets held together with a rubber 'O'-ring to make them easier to handle. There are different sizes for different ammunition.

One unscrews the puller-cap and inserts the correct set of collets then screws the cap on loosely enough that the bullet will pass through them. The collet is designed to lock into the extractor groove between the case body and rim. One tightens the cap on the bullet puller and it's now ready to use.

The image above shows the case: Green is the rim, red is the extractor groove and blue is the case body.

Below is the assembly phase.

The top left shows the collets, a three-piece assembly which is held together with that black 'O'-ring. Top right is an inserted round to show how it fits, but I usually do this once the collets are already inserted into the puller.

Bottom left shows the bullet from the other side. The flat surface of the base of the collets is screwed down hard against the face of the puller tool as in bottom right. It has to be screwed down very firmly to work. You can see how it's going to work I guess.

Below you can see a little trap for young players. That's the face where the alloy collets sit against and are screwed down to. See those six tiny things there? That's AP70N gun powder. Screw the collets down onto that and then bang it...Hmm, might not go so well for you. I've not done it so don't know what will happen but maybe you could try it and let me know? (Please don't actually do that ok?)

The next step is easy...Hammer-blow the puller on its end, not the end shown above where the ammunition sits, the other end, and the bullet and gun powder is forced out of the case through that kinetic energy being arrested so abruptly against my bench top. It's magic physics.

Some use the concrete floor but I use my benchtop, a great hunk of thick wood. There's some technique to it but after a few tries most people get it together and enjoy the Thor-like hammering.

The bullet pops out with the gun powder and job done...Empty it, load the next and proceed.

Below are the ones I did this afternoon. You can see the cases, powder and the projectiles (bullets) which will all get reused. I've placed the case with the upside down primer standing up so you can see that is not damaged although this will be removed and thrown away anyway.

Below is that same case in which you can see the upside down primer. This is a nice demonstration as to how a primer works actually. You can see how the charge is funnelled into the case to explode the gun powder and send the projectile. The charge is the yellow-green parts; This is often red but depends on who manufactured the primer. The ignition blasts through the flash-hole in the bottom of the case when struck by the firing pin.

Of course, to the left is a projectile or bullet. This is a CMJ Restrike 9mm 124gr RN so...Copper metal-jacketed 9mm round nose bullet that weighs 124grains. (124grains = 0.283429 ounces). You can see I've pulled it out of a case as there is a crimp mark around it, about a third of the way along the bullet from the left. This is from the reloading process.

Putting a round into a gun and firing it with an upside down primer will be problematic...It won't shoot at best and at worse will ignite and damage the gun or shooter. It's not something most are willing to try; No one I know anyway.

Below is the powder; AP70N manufactured by Australian company ADI Powders is what I run in my 9mm ammunition, or have been running until they discontinued it and replaced it with APS450. I have some left though, a few kilograms so enough for a few thousand rounds.

So that's about it really. It's not a difficult job and I usually wait until I have several to dismantle before I bother to get the kinetic bullet puller out.

To be honest I rarely have to pull bullets as my reloading process is effective and I have a good quality control process. These you see in this post are from three years of making 9mm ammunition and a few of them are not even mine.

Lastly I'd like to welcome @evenuncovered to The PEW. Eve went shooting the other day, dressed like a ninja as it turns out, and shared her experience in this post. She had a great time and I think will definitely go shooting again if the opportunity arises. Thanks for using The Pew community.


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I guess you can't just throw them in the bin.
Put it in this tube and bang it on the table isn't the advice I expected to get, dealing with faulty bullets; but here we are.

Yeah, it's irresponsible to just throw them in a bin, although it happens I guess.

The bullet puller is a good option but I'll admit, there's always a momentary thought of, what the fuck am I doing. Lol...So far so good though. It's better when they work properly of course. More fun.

Very handy indeed. I use the bullet puller more frequently when I am first developing a new round, or setting up new dies. I will first load a few without powder or primer just to measure the overall length when complete, and to verify that they cycle in the weapon properly if I am trying to push the length closer to the lands. The puller allows me to do that without wasting the bullet or the brass. Very nice pics and review of the process!

 3 years ago (edited) 

Yes, another good use of the puller and one I do often. I didn't want to get into in this post as it would have made it way longer. The puller is a handy tool and one that preserves the projectile for future use. Better than pliers, but a odd feeling when one is banging it on the bench to make it work. Hammering rounds like this is unnatural.

To be honest I rarely have to pull bullets as my reloading process is effective and I have a good quality control process. These you see in this post are from three years of making 9mm ammunition and a few of them are not even mine.

I'm glad you put that blurb in. As I was reading I'm thinking 6 of 400? That's way excessive from my POV. I'd be looking for the 'weak link' and probably buy some shells to finish what ever competition I was in so I wouldn't screw up the squad with hang fires...

I just went to the bathroom and used my time there to try to figure out a realistic hang fire rate, and I'm thinking 1 per 10,000. Almost always primer failure with powder lack the second most common. For me that would be about 1 per year of registered targets.

It's cool that you have a tool that 'dis assembles'. It's important from a safety standpoint, not to mention productivity. For shot gun shells we just had a vice and a sharp knife to release the case.

No misfires or hangs in the bathroom?

I do some of my best "thinking" in that room also... :-p

One of the best places to just sit and ponder, literally!

 3 years ago (edited) 

Yeah, 6 of 400 would mean I suck as a reloader. Two were not mine so 4 of several thousand wasn't bad. To be honest a couple of them looked perfect, primers intact and all...But if a round doesn't fire I eject it and move in it's mid-stage and then pick it up on completion and isolate it for destruction. There may have been nothing wrong with it, maybe the gun was dirty or something, but I don't risk it.

I'd say 1/10,000 is a fair rate of failure and I'd accept that, although 0/10,000 would be better.

That bullet puller comes in handy for reloading rifle ammunition too, as Kris points out in another comment, especially when chasing an OAL (overall length) to get the projectile up near the lands. I run my sniper rifle at 2thou off the lands, so very close. With that rifle the bullet doesn't respond well to a bigger jump than that.

I've been known to use the kinetic puller to lengthen the OAL with a tappety tap here and a tappety tap tap there...Of course when the projy comes out altogether I swear like a 2 bit whore, and start again.

I have a Hornady OAL gauge which helps with the process, obtaining the OAL, but when setting seating dies the puller comes in handy.

I've never reloaded shotgun shells, I guess the principle is the same until the crimping of the end is required...Crimp rather than seat a bullet. I've no reason to do it, but I suppose it's something I should lean for a rainy day right?

Cross-section-of-a-rifled-barrel-indicating-the-caliber-of-the-weapon-which-is-measured (1).png
Not for you, just in case someone reads my comment and doesn't know what lands means. Cross section of a rifle barrel.

I don't know why you'd need to learn how to crimp. The head pressure is all taken up by the wad which is expandable plastic. It's an entirely different concept. More like black powder to you I would think. Where you use a patch around the ball to seal the barrel.

I've been around and loaded some pistol ammo. Not too much, but some. I know of some problems with 'head spacing' on revolvers (particularly S & W) that would be sort of like too much travel before the bullet hits the lands in a rifle. I inherited a huge pile (literally) of .38 and .357 rounds when my Uncle died. Over the last 20 years I have gotten about half of them shot up and given away. I don't know that I've ever had a misfire with his loads. If they don't go bang it's probably a firing pin :)

I might want to learn as I' may need to do it sometime, also I don't like not knowing things that have piqued my curiosity so some YouTubing must happen, at the very least. :)

With handguns the jump issue isn't too much of a concern. A general OAL is obtained and then one simply churns out rounds like crazy. Most rifle applications are similar but with precision rounds used for long range and high accuracy a little more care must be taken. Besides, I don't mind the technical side of it, I just go into my workshop and tinker around and all of a sudden a whole day is gone!

With the jump issue I loaded rounds at different OAL's, five of each, and then shot them at 100m looking for groupings. I found the best three, created three rounds each of the respective OAL's and then shot them again. The best was what I ran with. A simple process, is somewhat time consuming.

Screw the collets down onto that and then bang it...Hmm, might not go so well for you. I've not done it so don't know what will happen but maybe you could try it and let me know? (Please don't actually do that ok?)

Me (eating chips...😃): OK, I promise I won't do it (grab another chip and eat it). What are we talking about?

Lol...I really wish someone (other than me) would give it a go. Lol.

To be honest I don't think much would happen as the powder needs and ignition source, but I'm not willing to try it.

1 beer later...Gimme that bullet puller...

Aww thank you for the shoutout! I feel all warm and fuzzy being here 🤗

I'm gonna read this post better tomorrow, I've stared at gun related pictures all day already and I don't think I can internalise anything more today :D

Uhoh, you've got the... itch.

She seems to have got it good. I hope she shoots again soon, that'll confirm it.

It's a very elite and select group in The Pew. We the few.

Very elite, much secretive, such wow.

Lol. No secrets on the blockchain, but lets pretend.

Oh but there are 🤓😏

Well, you and I know that...But that's a secret! 😉

Don't worry, mate, I'm going to make an archery community some day and it shall be the least used community instead of The Pew...

Or...do you accept people who throw stones here? I also played Laser Tag a couple of dozens of times...

That's a great plan and a good idea for a community.

This is pretty cool, I will have to watch a video to see how this is done. It seems straight forward but can't quite mentally figure out the mechanics lol.

Definitely seems like a good thing to do, I will have to remember to check any ammo I own to see if there are faults in it like that. Thankfully/unfortunately that's quite the small quantity right now lol

Check this one...All good. Check that one...All good. Yep, my ammo is good to go, all two of them. 😭

You should be able to find a YouTube video of the kinetic puller in action. It's reasonably straight forward. Hammer that fucker like Thor and that's about it.