About HBD price and proposals funding

in HiveDevs3 years ago (edited)

There is currently a lot of talk (and backlash) on the price of HBD which is no longer pegged to $1 and stays well above it, and about the attempt to solve the problem through the @hbdstabilizer project initiated by @smooth.

As a result, most proposals, except those for @hbdstabilizer and a few other lucky ones, are no longer funded. The two main reasons for this situation are:

  • major stakeholders' vote removal from the proposals above the Return Proposal
  • the fact that @hbdstabilizer proposals are currently receiving almost all of the DHF's daily budget.

Among the people who suffer from the non-funding of their proposals, we have seen uncoordinated reactions, from @good-karma (ecency/hivesigner) by creating a bot to return the overpaid HBD to @hbdstabilizer every hour, from @inertia reducing his proposal daily payment or from @klye stating he will continue to work despite unfunded for nowtm.

While not having his proposal unfunded, @howo said he will adapt his workload "proportionaly" to HBD price.

For my part, I think I was the first to officially react to the definancing of the proposals that I supervise in my previous post: continuing with Hivebuzz and keeping HiveSQL temporarily free.

My personal stance update

The cool thing about a decentralized community is that the situation can change quickly thanks to solutions provided by its members. Of all the reactions stated above, I think the one introduced by @ good-karma is the one that shows the most common sense.

As I announced, the solution put in place for HiveSQL was temporary, with the primary intention of not disrupting the applications that rely on it to function. However, it is hard to drive a project in a serene way when uncertainty prevails.

Therefore, here are the arrangements I make regarding my projects:

1. Commissioning a "Return Bot"

Similarly to @good-karma, I have commissioned a bot that will return the excess funding to @hbdstabilizer as long as the HBD price is above $ 1.

However, I have included two small modifications to his script:

  • The bot uses the Upbit exchange rate rather than the Coingecko's rate because they sometimes diverge and it is on Upbit that the trading volume is the most important and therefore in my opinion the most relevant.
  • Considering the current Bitcoin rate and the minimum amount required to create a sell order being 0.0005 BTC (approximately $ 30), there may be a significant delay and price difference between the time HBD is returned and the remaining can be effectively sold. Add to this that the goal of @hbdstabilizer is to make the HBD price go down. Therefore, I planned a small margin of 10% on the returned HBDs to avoid having to do convoluted calculations to keep the deal fair and act as a buffer.

The script is now monitoring for proposal #138 (HiveSQL) and proposal 147 (HiveBuzz).

2. HiveSQL

From Monday 2021-04-12 at midnight UTC time, HiveSQL will switch back to subscription mode as long as the proposal is left unfunded. This means that users and services who rely on it for their activities are invited either to activate a subscription before this date, or to encourage the proposal to be funded again with that "return-bot-controlled" rate of 1 HBD = 1 USD mechanism in place

3. HiveBuzz

We will deliver the results of the work accomplished so far and that we had planned to introduce to you next week. Then, we will unfortunately have to reduce the sails a little while waiting for better times. But should the proposal being funded again with the "return-bot-controlled" rate of 1 HBD = 1 USD too, we will continue our work at full throttle.

I hope that with your help and support, we can quickly get back to a safe place, where we can be more concerned with our work than with these financial ups and downs.

Support our proposals!

Thanks for reading!


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Thank you for taking the initiative of implementing a return bot. I approved both of your proposals.

Thank you for your support. Really appreciated!

#147 looks funded again but not #138. I did all I could, need more voters on #138

Yeah, I saw it. Thanks again.
Hopefully more users will follow your example.
Meantime, I'm fixing a small bug I found in the bot when it is not running in a crontab 😓

Thank you for this update and explanation of your position on this subject.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Do you mind if I link my prior post here in the comments for more reading material and thoughts on this or?

Oh derp nvm you did link it. Thanks for the mentions man. <3

Most welcome. It is an interesting one to read.

We can be more honest and state the lucky ones were basically only the proposals that exceeded the vote threshold with out blocktrades. There is a $19600 proposal and for some reason at the exact opposite side of DPoS you can vote for any and all proposals giving enormous weight to one account who effectively swung $20K+ of funding alone. The reason Hive doesn't have cooler stuff is this.

If we want to fix this make the total number of accounts voting for proposals be the weight, and individual accounts not able to swing their HP more than their share of this. So if BT wants to vote for everything it will only get 1/4 weight, or if he wants to vote for 1/4 of the things full weight.

I won't argue the stabilizer is a better return proposal, but it sure has soured a lot of funding and put a magnifying glass on this PoS hack (developed by BT himself)

Well if everyone didn't dump Hive as fast as they receive it more people would have voting power. Ironically the people with proposals are dumping even quicker.

It looks like dumping all the HBD directly onto to market makes the price go up.

If only it worked that way we would be at $100.

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Sadly not everyone has the luxury of stable financial security or budgeting skills to horde the currency they're shitposting / witnessing / proposal'ing for. If we're going to start shaming people for having to use/sell the tokens/value/wealth they earned by putting focus and effort into things here on HIVE.. then we may as well just fucking get rid of the financial incentives and run it all out of the goodness of our hearts for free or some shit, right?

Dumping on a market that is trending up is silly of course, but if people need to sell crypto earned here to eat, pay bills, tithe rent and/or get a midget ladyboy hooker.. then the prosperous endlessly stating the obvious in snide snippets cushioned by their financial position in judgement of those who can't afford to do that, well.. will get old quick and only serve to create animosity and promote classism.

The HIVE I'm trying to build incentivizes the poor user to learn skills that can be used in the long term to inject value back into our ecosystem so they one day will be financially stable enough to not have to sell HIVE in order to fast track the greater distribution of stake on HIVE.

Our current stake weight distribution allows a small elite handful to basically dictate the rules for everyone, while a few of the heavyweight stake accounts are "dormant", the ones that aren't are basically acting as a "Bilderburg style" group. I'd rather see selling and that concentration of influence spread to 5000 accounts rather than 5 to mitigate the potential of any one individual dictating or being able to impose their decisions on the entire chain.

I'm not pointing fingers directly at you, nor giving you shit to be honest, but your comment certainly inspired trying to explain why seemingly innocent comments can potentially create divides between the "HIVE Bildeburgs" old boys club that by design of DPOS are fortified into their positions through various inflationary means.. and the serf normal user majority who is on here trying to share shitposts for a chance to put their digital "will shitpost for crpyto" cardboard sign to potentially attract some wealth or influence.

If people want to be weak hands... encouragement. Encourage it! Let's those of you that can afford to buy the dips load up on more HIVE / Influence and more easily fund your future account expansion.

The simple fact is most people are dumping as quick as they can then complain it is centralized. Everyone has their own unique situation, but it doesn't change the facts.

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Most folks on here are consumers and the main selling point and use case the network presents is "shitpost for crypto".. So by design from the ground up it seems being irked over what was essentially designed as a means of bringing interest to the network results in a plethora of "holes" in which the inflation paid out to the content creators gets dumped onto the market as was the original design idea.

Fundementally until we phase out layer one blog posting rewards in favour of SMT or whatever token architecture we'll see dumping. I personally think it's well within reason to be selling HIVE when money is tight or bills are due.. And while I'm sort of in your boat of thought and not enthralled that shitposting is a slow drip pf market cap.. I'm even less enthralled at the thought of a long broken peg correction experiment that is essentially inflating HIVE prices (not a bad thing) but at the expense of me being able to eat avacodoes or order myself some replacement contacts then it starts my mind down the path of "would I be more appreciated elsewhere?" and "why is it only well off large stakeholders that are going out of their way to attempt to correct my thoughts on this?"..

because it is.. It's only the high value HIVE stake holders that are really even trying to justify or rebuttal my observations. Which makes sense because using DHF funds to pump HIVE provides a far greater income to them in the short term then they speculate paying developers and getting more use cases / demand built in the mid to long term.. And that fucking sucks.

I'm not the best coder, I'm certainly a shitty politician and for what it's worth the sheer amount of code that I'm trying to maintain and develop at the moment is something better suited for a small team like aggroed or blocktrades has.. But alas other than the few hours I can afford to bring in help it's mostly me slogging through hundreds of thousands of lines of code while building projects that not only give back to DHF but also modernize HIVE functionality to bring it up to a competitive level of market demanded utility.

yeah, I mean sure it's cool stuffing all the DHF funding into stakeholders pockets via the selling of HBD -> BTC then BTC -> HIVE but what I would like to know is why weren't the guys with prior funded proposals allowed to perform the same actions as HBD stabilizer effectively performing but at the same time have no party left without funding.

I think a combo of proposals following the dumping as stabilizer is doing mixed with an accountability / chain refund mechanism like good-karma typed up for us is the only way this will be sustainable or even justifiable for any long period of time.

HBD isn't going to build our networks' use cases and bring in outside focus and attention no matter how many thousands of dollars we sink into it... But I'm sure as shit going to speculate that the same funding being used for this experiment given to our developer community with them following the same HBD -> BTC -> HIVE market path would produce far greater lasting effects than the current message of "Your Development Efforts are Less Important Than Our Unproven and likely Ineffective Pegging a known to be fucked, to say the least, price discovery function".

Now I don't believe the guys are doing this to purposely hurt the developer community, but they're certainly not in positions where they feel any negative effects to their decision making, their decision only makes their holding value go up due to DHF being subverted as a pump crew rather than being used to build out the ecosystem.. It's short term profits for the largest stake holders at the expense of me and other less financially stable indie devs here on HIVE being able to have an extra slice of montreal smoked meat on their sammiches..!

You and I both know how much I'm into meat. Had I known the proposals were going to get smoked I'd certainly have adjusted the budgeting to get more essentials instead of assuming that my support was going to be there out of the sheer awesomeness of the problem solving that my projects are going to bring to the table.. But alas, now I'm here venting on your comment in some vain attempt to destress and uncover the human cost of the HBD experiment after working all damn day on HIVE centric applications for a whopping $22.60 that my witness locked away producing blocks of which I'm grateful for, but obviously not thriving on.

Anyways, sorry to wall of text you Marky, it's probably gotta be getting old listening to my broke ass raise concerns about things that don't have any effects on the higher echelons of HIVE society. Cheers man. :/

I use hivesql a lot, hope you keep it free for a bit longer, as it doesnt look like hbd will go down soon, and I hope this method with the bot gets your aproval.

On the subscription model, it was 40 hbd per month beffore, do you plan to lower the price since hbd is high now?

My dearest wish is to see the proposal refinanced so that HiveSQL remains free for everyone. I do not wish to have to constantly adapt the subscription price according to that of the HBD, whether the proposal is funded or not, and so on... Such continual changes also require updating the monitoring, the processes, the related posts, the communication, ... The current situation is already demanding enough and I want something simple and pleasant for all.

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To support your work, I also upvoted your post!

Support the HiveBuzz project. Vote for our proposal!

50% of the features on my https://hivelayers-stats.herokuapp.com depends on HiveSQL .

I don't know if I can subscribe with 40 HBD now. Thanks for the update , will see what I can do.

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You can possibly proceed with daily subscriptions which are less expensive, hoping that the proposal will be funded in the next day.