Leofinance engagement is now double that of any other Hive application

in LeoFinance3 years ago

I've seen people talking about engagement on leofinance posts recently and how it has increased dramatically of late.

Has it? Or has been leading the way for months now?


With the price of HIVE on the slide, you would expect to see engagement falling blockchain wide - there are many reports, past and present, of posts/comments having a strong correlation with token price.

To some though, this is the best time to get stuck in and collect more tokens, HIVE and second layer tokens, with the hope of an increase in price at a later point in time.

While HIVE has slid in value for months, LEO has done the opposite and so you would expect more posts and engagement. There are a couple of other factors that I think have have influenced this, if it is indeed the case.

  1. Large stakeholders are manually curating, and curating comments

  2. Curation with LEO is now 'flat', and you get back half the value of your vote, no matter what time it is cast, or who votes before or after.

I'll mention that the LEO community is quite small and the larger stakeholders / management need to not go rogue to make 'flat curation' work. If this change was made on Hive, it would likely become a shit-show to police as the 6th day 'upvote your own comment' brigade would likely appear.

Anyway, onto the numbers!

The table below shows the top 10 applications, ordered by Posts created. It's not surprising to see peakd and hive.blog at the top, although there is a fair difference in the average number of comments on the posts produced by the leading posting applications.

actifit is 3rd in the rankings, but I believe they add a comment to each post that reaches minimum step requirements.

Looking at the final column, and scroll down to the bottom there - leofinance averaging 5.67 comments per post produced via their application.

Note that the comment counts/avg includes comments made using any application

App used to PostPost CountTotal CommentsAvg Comm. Per post
peakd27166911549964.251482503
hiveblog2542036117152.406403544
actifit524211107702.113084451
esteem378741013492.67595184
3speak27353610392.231528534
steempress18349129760.707177503
investarena17567113130.643991575
dtube16824112540.668925345
ecency14667480143.273607418
leofinance14630829535.670061517

So has the average been bumped up recently, or has finance and leofinance always done quite well as far as engagement?

image.png

Since the birth of Hive, leofinance has scored best on average number of comments per post in all but two months, closely beaten esteem on both occasions, which I think is now ecency. Most applications have remained static or seen a fall in recent months, this is not the case for leofinance. With the switch to flat curation happening only recently, and larger stakeholders hitting decent comments with votes, you would expect the average to rise further in coming months.


Leofinance engagement league trial, anyone?


Cheers

Asher

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

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If this change was made on Hive, it would likely become a shit-show to police as the 6th day 'upvote your own comment' brigade would likely appear.

The 6th day brigade would definitely come, but there should be more than enough power to counter all of those attempts. That's where I personally think Hive is far behind though, because it continues to encourage and support all these automatic means instead of praising and embracing manual work.

Manual curation is better in terms of engagement and it will result in a happier and healthier community. Just look at these numbers and do a "eyeball"-test on some of the articles on LEO. - Comments everywhere!

It's only logical. Content creators wants someone to consume and interact with their content. It's impossible to change that. That's how it's supposed to be and it has always been like that. Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, wherever you look, content has content consumers that interacts and engages with the content.

Not a single person would use any of these social media platforms if no one ever engaged with their content. The only difference with Hive, as for why content creators still create content regardless of the engagement is because they make money. Those who aren't lucky enough to earn something "decent" quits within a blink of an eye without engagement.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Spot on; A social service that is not social, is doomed.

Auto vote can be used for sure, but auto voters shall act dynamic. At HIVE many of the high value auto voters are supporting the same users for months to maybe even years. Some of them support curators groups, which is good, since these curator groups go around in a manual fashion.

I've seen too many users leave HIVE not because of almost no to no rewards, but no engagement. That said, I also see a lot of users dropping posts only, not comment to any other posts, sometimes not even to comments on their own posts... Users going for the money, full stop. A (major) problem at the general purpose HIVE social network.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Manual curation is better in terms of engagement and it will result in a happier and healthier community. Just look at these numbers and do a "eyeball"-test on some of the articles on LEO. - Comments everywhere!

The stats, at least according to this post, bear that out. We are seeing a lot of comments per post, on average.

This shows the efforts being made are having an impact. Now we have to make sure all are doing their part. I think these numbers can be increased.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I am 100% sure that engagement will continue to increase as long as we continue to reward comments during the "early days" of initiative 10. The current hype is much due to yours- and onealfa's upvotes on comments, but I truly believe that we will see more engagement even without the amazing comment-curation we have now. At least if we continue with "initiative 10" for another 2 weeks or so.

I don't mean to say that we can stop rewarding comments after that, but I don't think that neither you or onealfa would have to reward hundreds of comments on a daily basis after that.. We will have established the "new thing" by then, so comments are being rewarded frequently from literally everyone on LEO. I'm sure of that.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah well I am not going to stop upvoting comments. You are right about the habit and others following suit. I havent paid much attention to how many are actually upvoting comments on a consistent basis.

I just put up a "call to arms" post if you will after the one Asher did. We can do better is the main theme.

It is a subject we cannot let up on.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Hmm, chart isn't very big is it?

Right-click, open in new tab :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah we need to work on the image sizing + opening a popout dialog :) coming soon

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

On the list, with a million other things :)

Great one!
Some were asking me to do this, you saved me :)

About the comment count. Do you count the comments made from leofinance, or the comments made under posts made from leofinace?
Say you made this post from leofinace, and I comment from hive.blog.

I was thinking how to present this.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Saved :) There's plenty of other angles to look at I'm sure.

Do you count the comments made from leofinance, or the comments made under posts made from leofinace?

All comments, from any app - the Post count is posts made by a particular app.

Say you made this post from leofinace, and I comment from hive.blog.

So this would be a +1 for leofinance in the top table, and a +1 for a comment made on a leofinance post.

It's worth looking at how much commentary is made on the different frontends, and something I'd need to do for a leo engagement league I think.

Cheers for the reblog!

I think you should be at least partial benefactor from this post since Asher cut you off at the pass.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Since LEO posts are visible in the users feeds at all the other HIVE UIs (well most of them), I would not start looking at comments made through the Leo interface; It doesnt serve any purpose imho. I for one use multiple interfaces to go around HIVE, for each task I execute I use a different UI. Maybe I'm just one of the few doing this; Call me crazy :) LeoFinance I use as a UI to post when it concerns a try Leo post. However, I also post about finance that I think is more for another HIVE community whilst it also belongs to Leo; These posts I post through other UIs. Comments to posts I make through different UIs; I may use Ecency laptop App to comment to Leo posts, to comment to replies on my own Leo posts. I may also use hive.blog for that, and sometimes PeakD. Check also this comment I published: https://leofinance.io/hive-167922/@edje/re-abh12345-3mv8sk

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

"Leofinance engagement league trial, anyone?"

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Alright :)

The plan would be to only count comments made using leofinance. It's a bit of a 'meta-post', not strictly finance but about leofinance and so I've been a bit unsure about it. This is the green light I guess!

Perhaps it is the smaller niche that makes the difference, plus... Everyone likes money :)

These types of posts are interesting.

A specific niche helps but what makes the real difference is a real clear vision from the founder who listens to the community (e.g. flat curation) and comes with new stuff constantly. Also, the fact that most whales are not short sighted dumb fucks helps.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Hear Hear... Vision is Key. HIVE doesnt have any. LEO does indeed. And: LEO delivers more in a much shorter time, is very open and transparent when eg things go wrong (eg wHIVE incident), something I dont see at HIVE. Flat curation may work for LEO, it may not work for HIVE (eg the 6th day stealth voting problem we faced before).

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Imagine if we get a similar sized group in a community that is zealous like in sports (or dare I say, politics).

Can you imagine the engagement for a popular team like Man United?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

There's no such thing as Man United. You mean Liverpool, right?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

:-)

nice

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

🤯👎🏽😝

Manchester United suck but I get your point.
The sports front-end needs a lot of work.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Future home of crypto/finance news + entertainment - let's hope so :)

Cheers!

If this change was made on Hive, it would likely become a shit-show to police as the 6th day 'upvote your own comment' brigade would likely appear.

I know this is just a side-point to your post here, but I have never understood the rationale against this and other forms of self-voting. Inflation is generated and is going to be allocated somewhere.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Surely just voting 10 of your own comments each day is a slap in the face to PoB? Whaleshares has tested this model :)

self voting and voting for all those that commented on my post used to give me a reason to buy and power steem up.

Nothing against self-voting your own work, but 10 of your own comments which are just one letter, no bueno!

ah ok. would take me three weeks to write 10 comments, understand why they only put in one letter ones. haha :)

I miss your actifit posts, you need to re-attach the Lego body?

too busy playing Splinterlands to post :)

Now next step would be if more content would be really useful for all and not so much only for Hivers. Just check how many trending posts are about Leofinance itself and not about investing.

Another Hear Hear (when searching on Hear Hear in this post comment trail, you find the other one hahaha)... Absolutely correct! LeoFinance likes to talk about itself and the curators seems to like to read about it; They for sure use there fingers to give massive vote value to these posts, while posts that is interesting to the outside world, those users we like to attract and onboard, are undervalued...That's a given at this point in time. Some higher value curators stated before they want to move away from rewarding the internal posts and move their votes to none-LEO posts more, but still many vote also for the Leo posts. Ah well, this may need some time, cultural changes are not easy :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Indeed. As an example I was a bit disappointed when I had asked how many BTC you own how few were willing to answer (even "I don´t want to disclose"). A contradiction to the "so active" community.

Hahaha, I wouldnt answer that question as well :)

That said, the number of Leo post in trending, and the few users part of trending, doesnt represent the quality posts published by the number of users on Leo. Very disappointing.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yes, I agree, and am guilty of this myself too.

Outward facing posts on topics like 'what will be the best cryptocurrency investments for 2021' (just a potentially bad example!) are certainly needed to try to boost search engine ranks and bring in fresh users.

Not only to attract new users, but also to keep LEO interesting for many existing users. Sure, also I like to keep updated about LEO, but I prefer these posts to be in a special corner, not mixed with all the finance posts. Mostly I read and comment to posts not about LEO. That said, I commented quite a bit on this post which is in fact an internal post :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Nice report Asher. Leofinance looks stronger than ever.

If this change was made on Hive, it would likely become a shit-show to police as the 6th day 'upvote your own comment' brigade would likely appear.

Not at all...there's enough downvote power to deal with this kind of shit on LEO. And so is on Hive, if not more...

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Cheers dude :)

Yeah the downvote power, and certainly since 'free' DVs arrived has been around for a while, it is however a time-consuming task that grows as the community grows.

I used to run a report for SPORTS when that was attracting fucktards, if LEO were to boom then I think some automation/digging would be required to track accounts taking advantage of flat curation by self-voting late.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

it will be time consuming to track those fuckers, but a change like that would definitely benefit Hive as a whole. After all we need to keep this place...and that place clean...

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It seems to be working here, and I'm glad we will get to see how it plays out - hopefully for the better even if thinks get busy, and then the change could be looked at more closely at the base layer, maybe.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

great to see more sections of the Hive ecosystem to get traction, ended comments are engagement is something that probably needs to increase compare to the amount of content thats been produce, awesome post

Yep, the more consumers the better - hopefully those with big pockets too :)

Cheers!

It's great to see the impact that changes have made. I'd say that post numbers would be mainly due to the strong LEO price compared to HIVE, and comment growth is thanks to flat curation and people hoping "the beast" @onealfa pays a visit.

Leo Engagement league? Yes please, sign me up.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

The factors you mention are quite recent but the numbers show that 'comments per leofinance generated post' have averaged higher since the birth of Hive - they look like they'll really start to motor now.

Leo Engagement league? Yes please, sign me up.

Was thinking of putting everyone who's made a comment via leofinance in :)

I'd say that post numbers would be mainly due to the strong LEO price compared to HIVE...

I disagree with this for the most part. The ones who are posting have basically been doing a fair job all along. Yes we have growth and the token price is exciting but I think most see passed that.

There is a lot to like about LEO and people are realizing it.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Hey Asher, why do you think the commenting is up for LF over the others? Is it because most here on the blockchain are crypto-oriented?

I think so, everyone here has some crypto and some level of vested interest.

I'm glad to see all the interaction on so many posts. A trial would be interesting, I think I like to do the manual thing but Mabie it could be something to delegate to in the future.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Trails can be great if one doesn't have time to manually curate and trusts the one who is doing the upvoting. If the person is doing a good job, then the trails are terrific.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I trail the leo curation account with my LEO, they vote in the best interest of their platform I presume, and with no 'penalty' for 1) voting after a larger voter, 2) late, that makes sense to me.

Great when you go on vacation too. but like you said it all depends on the person doing the voting. I'm still kinda on the fence though because I know some people don't like it.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I set up a trail so if you want to follow my account when you are on vacation you can do that.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Oh cool, that will be great!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I think we can improve the numbers and increase the ranking of Leofinance.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I'm sure they will rise in the future :)

Lol. Clearly we know what gets money hungry little shits excited don’t we? We’re all just a bunch of moon boys and girls hyping up mostly crypto all day long and I love it

Compensates for all the crypto hate I get in other parts of my life

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Moon boys, sounds ummm, anyway :)

I get hate from peers too, and put it down to lack of knowledge.

oh well, the new rewards system has encouraged all users to vote for comments and posts equally, without fear of losing rewards.

Hive should align with this voting system which would incentivize both authors and curators to focus more on interaction.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

It might happen on Hive, depending on how the 'experiment' works here over time.

Very interesting to see the numbers. I would have expected more of an increase with change TBH. But I imagine it's a trend that will continue into November as people realise their comment returns.

I'll probably do one myself, it'll do much better than anything I try to write about finance, because it'll be about LEO.

You put trial instead of table in the last sentence. How hard would it be to duplicate the Hive version?

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah I think the changes are so recent that the effect is still flowing through.

I meant to put trial! :D

Are you saying there's comment self-voting going on around day 6? Tut.., that would not be tolerated on HIVE..., I have trouble using my DV's power now, not at all like the STEEM days.

I like LEO but why is it everyone chases the token that is going up? HIVE is cheap now and is still the base token for all these tribes.

We will see BTC on the news soon and then everyone will want a piece. I'm happy to keep my 0.19 BTC until it get's to some stupid price, but wont be buying any more. Sell when it's high, buy when it's low.

It's a tough concept to take in when it comes to crypto.

Are you saying there's comment self-voting going on around day 6?

I have not looked but I think it would happen if LEO mooned.

HIVE is cheap now and is still the base token for all these tribes.

HIVE does look cheap, but you only need 25 HP or so to get involved. Still, I'm collecting :)

I'm happy to keep my 0.19 BTC until it get's to some stupid price, but wont be buying any more.

You have .05 more than me :) I'd like to buy more but don't have the funds. I've seen 250k mentioned for next year, oh my!

These are good stats to see the difference between the UIs; Thanks for this.

A few comments from my side:

  • LeoFinance:
    • Crypto and money based, hence more attractive for a larger part of the community
    • Recent LEO token value being higher than HIVE, helps as well, free marketing
    • LEO team goes fast, and handled the wHIVE incident very well with open, detailed communication (something the HIVE team can learn from)
  • HIVE general purpose UI split: Not sure of this tells us something; Personally I curate music using hive.blog for the simple reason, it is faster then PeakD; When posting, I use PeakD for the simple reason that I can control the post more (which image to use as tumbnail for instance) and it allows to include Spotify embedded code - I can imagine others do this as well
  • As of recent I started to use Ecency more, the local App, also for commenting, is more user friendly (and faster) going through the notifications and based on replies, read them and react

Because of the mix use of UIs, I can imagine more suers do this. If these numbers are more then insignificant, the split of posting and comments for each UI doesnt say anything. Publishing such stats may even harm certain UIs unnecessary.

Note: I must say, PeakD and LeoFinance (and to some degrees also 3Speak) are the best UIs in terms of handling of MarkDown code. Hive.blog, Ecency have some fundamental issues. Many to most of my (and other users) posts centering parts of post content (eg image, header, or some body text), are messed up in Hive.blog and Ecency; These UIs dont interpret the code well enough. This really needs attention!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I tend to chop between UI's too, especially with regards to curating.

Could you elaborate on this?

If these numbers are more then insignificant, the split of posting and comments for each UI doesnt say anything. Publishing such stats may even harm certain UIs unnecessary.

Could you elaborate on this?

Yes I can. A UI can be seen as a community. In the world outside of Crypto, users use a single UI for a services. FB UI for FB service, Insta UI for Instagram service etc. Outsiders likely think of HIVE.blog as a different service to PeakD, to LeoFinance, to Ecency. By posting stats on comments through a specific UI, outsiders (and also existing HIVE users who are not familiar with the tech and how to read these stats) may select the UI to use based on these stats. On one hand: Fine, its a free market. On the other hand, these stats are not coming from the UI owners, but from an independent party, in this case you.

That said, I think we shall create a webservice holding all sort of stats and stop posting them. As we need some special post channel, or even better, a webservice where we talk about Leo, HIVE and all so that these posts are not what outsiders will see. But that's a different topic to what you requested and what the original post is about :)

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I take your point, and also use various UIs.

In this post I looked at comments from any app, but am interested also to see which apps are making the comments.

deleted.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

That is actually no surprise! All of the LEO posts are written by real people with real emotions behind while a big part of HIVE posts are created by bots and upvoted using auto-upvotes.

When it comes to creating something real, Leo is the real deal!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Well I'd say half my posts are leo and half are without the tag/community, and I'm not a bot. I get your point though :)

Hehe, I meant Actifit and those kinds of posts.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Have to say, I've enjoyed my recent venture in to LEO over the last 4 weeks or so! So many comments on posts which is what it is all about and a community of folks willing to help everyone out, it's contagious! I barely post music posts these days and talk more about my crypto adventures as it gets more replies! This chart shows that it's been leading the way pretty much the whole time on HIVE - niche topics with clear vision, great communication and leadership and engaged community... great ingredients for a successful venture!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Yeah, and the great thing is you can still post a music related article and it will not land on leo. Good to get involved with many tribes I think, time permitting!

Yeah exactly, although when you're a part timer like me, there isn't much time being permitted of course :D

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

I'd totally love to see how @dbuzz stack up against all these. Would you like to add the Dapp in future reports? I use https://next.d.buzz and log in with Keychain. There's also https://d.buzz which you can use.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Pretty impressive. I think a lot of it is follow the money mentality though.

Wow! So this is a great time for me to hop in! I'm just starting to engage on this community. I did some posts in the past but now I want to be more active and make at least two or three posts a week. I gotta learn more about finances hehe. Thank you for your hard work and for sharing this statistics.

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

LeoFinance Engagement League? Hells, to the YEAH!

Perhaps one of the keys here is that you don't have to have huge holdings in order to drop a meaningful upvote on a worthy comment. And that helps engagement, as well. Because people DO like to be rewarded... in addition to enjoying the social aspects.

By extension, this could totally be extended to Sports, Politics... even something like art/creative, homesteading and "Natural Medicine" would be another good potential... any community with a good clearly defined niche.

=^..^=

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Congratulations @abh12345! You have completed the following achievement on the Hive blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You distributed more than 110000 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 115000 upvotes.

You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP

Do not miss the last post from @hivebuzz:

Feedback from the November 1st Hive Power Up Day

LeoFinance is getting really hot!

Posted Using LeoFinance Beta

Ecency and Esteem is same application, just that some of our users still using older version before rebrand version. So results from Esteem and Ecency should be combined!

Ahh, thanks for that. Yes they probably should, which would put Ecency/Esteem up there with Leo, nice!