Dear Hive Community,
this is an investment idea and I would like to know if this could be of interest for you.
It is about buying together a property - a piece of forest in e.g. Austria.
Why a forest?
- Absolutely inflation-proof
- A truely long-term investment
- Secured by well-established property laws (properties in a third world country would be a no-go)
- Wood is an increasingly valuable asset and a forest is producing it - for free
- By a sustainable wood management we could do even something good for the environment
- A forest owned by the Hive community is definitely the most awesome PR so far done for this Chain, #hivewood!
Purely illustrative example, a forest near Schladming, Styria, pic @stayoutoftherz
Forest in Austria, some facts
- Forests cover app. 47.6% of Austria’s territory (4 out of 8.4 mio ha)
- 82% of it is privately owned (second most in Europe)
- There are already 145000 forest owners in Austria, a few big ones (1,5% own 50% of the forest area) and many small ones (40% hold less than 3 ha), more info here
- An increasing share since quite some years is owned by so called new forest owners, also called urban or “unknown” forest owners (UFOs) with no prior relation to or knowledge about forestry (like in fact we would be), so others have done that too
How to do it?
Probably the most straightforward way would be via a Hive-Engine Token, why not call it WOOD for the sake of this exercise!
Let´s suppose I would target a forest of a few hectares (1 ha = 100m x 100m) for e.g. 20000 €. I would sell on the HE exactly 20000 WOOD Tokens for the equivalent of 1€ each, so currently 5,38 Hive.
If you buy 200 WOOD (for 200€ or 1076 Hive), you would own exactly 1% of that forest.
Any revenues out of this forest would go accordingly to the shareholders. And also a decision voting (e.g. what to do, to clear or to do a reforestation,...) would be done according to your share of the forest.
Are there risks too?
Indeed there are:
- A forest could burn down which would reduce the value of the land (but not common in Austria, we are not Australia and have a lot of rain)
- Some deadly bugs like the Bark beetle could kill the trees (but this happens in monocultures mostly)
- If the Hive blockchain is no longer, it would be much more difficult to admin the ownership and value distrubution (but not impossible)
- A small forest might be not profitable to manage (to be evaluated), but even so, the property itself will likely increase in value over time
Of course many questions remain (e.g. how to deal with the maintenance costs of the forest), but how does this idea sound to you in the first instance?
And how many WOOD would you be willing to invest?
Did I miss anything? Please let me know as well!
Please reblog, if you think this could be of broader interest!
I think this is a really cool idea - but there is some legal risks associated with it. The biggest problem I guess is the fact that the token will for sure be a security token. As far as I know - at least that is the fact in Germany - you can do this if you do not sell to the public but to a closed group of people, which is limited in number.
Regarding the legal entity - there is various variations possible. In Germany, a Verein or Genossenschaft would be possible, but I guess a small limited company would be the easiest to maintain.
Closed group of people? Seems that Hive is one.
It could be restricted to only members of a Hivewood community.
Would you consider to participate?
The problem might be that this is the German law - but I do not know what it is like in Austria or other places. I guess then local laws would apply.
Besides the legal aspects I think this is a really cool idea and would for sure participate if the minimum investment would not be too high.
"Angebot an weniger als 150 nicht qualifizerte Anleger (§ 3 Absatz 2 Nr. 2 WpPG)
Prospektpflicht besteht auch dann nicht, wenn sich das Angebot im Inland an weniger als 150 nicht qualifizierte Anleger richtet. Die Angebotsmitteilung darf dann nur für maximal 149 Personen zugänglich sein. Also müssen entweder gezielt höchstens 149 konkrete Personen angesprochen werden, oder es muss durch technische Maßnahmen verhindert werden, dass mehr als 149 Personen die Angebotsmitteilung lesen können. Diese Ausnahme kann jedoch nicht in Anspruch genommen werden, indem das Angebot willkürlich in mehrere Teile, die sich jeweils an weniger als 150 Personen richten, aufgeteilt wird. Solche Angebotsteile wären als einheitliches Angebot zu betrachten, das die Prospektpflicht auslöst."
Source: https://kanzlei-pasquay.de/emittenten/prospektfreie-wertpapiere/
Love the idea and yet, the legal and regulatory implications are substantial. This aside, hive-engine tokens live on a central database and thus using them for this purpose would already prevent me from participating. HIVE-SMTs would be the way to go imo and one would need to think how to design/characterize them for this specific case so that they could considered utility tokens. Starting with a non-profit-making association which grants utilities to the respective HIVE-SMT holders could be a way to approach this, idk. E.g. the utility to use the forest 365days*%vests per year (tent camps, meetings & events, research projects etc). I'm just thinking aloud here.
Great thoughts. Will the SMTs ever come?
I wish I'd knew. I'd like to see them come but they don't have the highest priority atm. One could consider to bridge with an ERC-20 token. And then swap once the SMTs are there.
und nun? Wann geht's los? :D
Gute Frage. Das Problem der Unterhaltungskosten ist ungelöst. Und als Hive-Engine-Token würden manche nicht mitmachen wollen. Ich werde aber mal Grundstücke checken und mich schlau machen, was eine Bewirtschaftung konkret kosten würden. Bis dahin kommen vielleicht die SMTs endlich (mit Ethereum-Coins will ich nichts zu tun haben).
Wie wäre es, das gleich ganz ordentlich gescheit auf der besten Blockchain zu machen: Bitcoin+LN RGB Protokoll colored satoshi Token?
Davon abgesehen wäre ich beim Thema Wald-als-Investment auch ganz ohne Token interessiert. Vor allem, wenn es ein Wald ist, der vom Raum München halbwegs gut erreichbar ist und man sich mit @rot-trip einfach mal ein WE lang rein stellen und naturerholen kann :)
I'm in! What's the buy in and when does it start? :D
The idea is pretty old and I wonder why the hell nobody does it.
I could even contribute IoT hardware and software for forest management and for example fire detection and prevention.
Thanks, I am also wondering. There must be some hidden traps?
Can´t answer your questions for now, but I will keep you updated.
Has such an IoT thing ever been used in forestry?
there are plenty of technological solutions. But nothing like I'd like to do: put a sensor every 10 meters or so on the trees to better understand how a forest ecosystem works.
Could be done, once we own it :)
Worth chatting to @eco-alex? We're thinking of doing something similar. Not quite the same, but having a cryptoken for our ecoVillage.
That's an awesome idea and I would be more than happy to participate! As people mentioned above, the legal stuff are tricky but if we can figure everything out and have a solid plan, this could work for sure!
I'll keep an eye on your blog for more updates! Cheers yo!
So where is the money for the running costs coming from? Like taxes, cost for maintainance work ect. And that can't be payed in Tokens, they wan't real Euros.
Good question. Probably there is no other way than adding those initially to the starting costs.
Du wurdest als Member von @investinthefutur gevotet!
Dazu noch ein kleines !BEER
View or trade
BEER.Hey @stayoutoftherz, here is a little bit of
BEERfrom @investinthefutur for you. Enjoy it!Learn how to earn FREE BEER each day by staking your
BEER.which legal entity would you creat to purchase the forest?
A limited company / GmbH, is there an alternative?
maybe a Verein?
there are some crypto projects that open up ltd companies. So far i just heard about New Zealand/Dash.
I think a Verein must not be profit-oriented.