How does that vote feel?

in LeoFinance3 years ago

Some of you might have noticed the jump in post values, which is caused by the feed price starting to reflect the spike in price on the weekend. Most of the day the blockchain was calculating at 51 cents, now it is at 70 cents, which is a ~40% jump. It is pretty cool to see the vale increasing and when I noticed, I went straight to @slobberchops post and gave him a 100% vote (about 8 dollars) because, he deserves it. Also, because for nigh on 3 years, I have said to him in regards to all the HIVE has has bought over the time - "just wait until price increases and you can feel your vote make an impact".

I really hope that everyone who has been here through the bear market and been buying while others have been selling are starting to feel like their investment has been worth it. Yeah, there are many other coins out there that have performed better, but this is far more fun, isn't it?

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However, this also brings up a good illustration of how the platform works in regards to payout. I will put it into very simple terms just so people can get a feel of what I am talking about.

If Hive is worth 10 cents and HBD is worth 1 dollar.
A 20 dollar post will get the author 10 dollars.
That is split (if going 50/50 on payout) between HIVE:HBD
It will get 50 HIVE and 5 HBD for the author.

However,

If Hive is at 1.00 dollar and HBD at 1 dollar.
The same 20 dollar post will get a split of 5 HIVE and 5 HBD for the author.

Currently, the Hive rewards fund, the inflation pool has 854,991 HIVE in it worth ≈ $601,914 - which is calculated at the at the approximate 70 cent price feed. If the price feed was 7 cents, the value of the pool will be ≈ 60,000 worth and if it was 7 dollars, it would be ≈ 6,000,000 worth. But, the HIVE in the pool at any given time is the Hive in the pool available for allocation.

So, this is allocated through various mechanisms including voting, like I did on the post I mentioned above. However, vote value is determined by stake in relation to all other stake - which means the HIVE POWER staked to the platform (technically the vests) is what is used to allocate a percentage of the pool to a post. A person with 100 HIVE POWER has half the draw on the pool as someone with 200 HIVE POWER.

To keep it easy, I have about 200,000 HIVE power and it can allocate 10 HIVE with each vote, which is 7 dollars worth if the feed price is 70 cents. However, under the same stake conditions with the feed price of 7 cents - my vote would allocate the same 10 HIVE, but would only be worth 70 cents. At 7 dollar feed price, my vote would be worth 70 dollars and, the same 10 HIVE.

However, while the HIVE is the same, most people opt for a 50/50 payout of HIVE:HBD. This means at 7 cents, there would be 5 HIVE and 35 cents worth of HBD. At 70 cents there is 5 HIVE and 3.50 worth of HBD. AT 7 dollars there is 5 HIVE and 35 dollars worth of HBD. Obviously, people want a higher price on their posts and of course to earn more, but those who hold also want a higher price as it is good for their token and vote value - but, voting doesn't earn HBD, it only earns HIVE in curation and that HIVE is powered up. Essentially, if someone is only voting, the only way for them to practically use their earnings is to powerdown. But, content creators can take 50% of their earnings as liquid and use it immediately after payout. Something to think about.

The other thing to think about are the payouts themselves, as a lot of people focus on the dollar value and don't necessarily understand the mechanics behind it in regard to Hive. The higher the price goes, the harder it is to earn Hive, which is why for all of these years I have been trying to convince people who say they want to go long on Hive, to post in the lows. However, it is a bit like Bitcoin, people want to buy it more at 50,000 dollars than at 5,000 dollars. Factoring in the value of HBD into the payouts explains a lot of this. However, for the curators, they get the HIVE benefit when they vote regardless, as they do not have access to the HBD portion through voting.

But, as prices increase, people start to talk about "the value" of posts and this is especially true for new people who haven't been here long or, people who have been here long but haven't built up the "social capital" and "network" that a social network rewards. It is also the case that many people don't see the value of posts on topics they aren't interested in, nor do they see the background of the account past the most recent posts, as most will never dig back very far.

For example, @slobberchops was saying that his post tonight was his first 100 dollar post ever, which is awesome - especially since I met him at the end of 2018 in Poland at #####Fest3 and the price had tanked heavily from the highs from the start of the year when he had joined. Even though this is a blockchain and everything is recorded, no one really looks back very far past their opinion about what is in front of their nose.

However, the higher prices go, the more people will earn who have built up capital, with people who at the depth of the bear were earning 5 dollars a post, now getting 35 dollars a post. People complained about earning those five dollars, without realizing that if one was unable or unwilling to buy HIVE, that was the best time to earn. The Hive social dynamics and game theory are strong, but most don't pay attention.

Let's say I create a brilliant post and the price feed is 10 cents. People want to reward it, but their vote isn't worth that much, so vote at 100% or larger percentages. Lets say it gets 10 dollars in votes in total. The curators (keeping it simple) get 50 HIVE spread amongst them, the author gets 25 HIVE and 2.50 in HBD. Not exactly a princely sum for my brilliant post.

However, if Hive was at for example 10 dollars and all the same people voted with the same weightings and conditions etc, the curators will get 50 HIVE spread, the author will get 25 HIVE and 250 dollars in HBD - because that same post now has a 1000 dollar value. These posts at the highs existed, but weren't common, because people lowered their voting values and spread the votes wider. A person with a 1 dollar vote at the 10c low, now has a 100 dollar vote at the $10 high, so instead of rewarding a single post 100%, they might reward 5 posts 20%. This means that if everyone for example halved their vote value on that some post - the post would still be worth $500, but would attract half as much Hive as when it was a $10 post at the lows.

If this happened across the board when high, all other things remaining equal, twice as many posts would be rewarded. But, that isn't the case, as we are seeing and will continue to see as price increases, because people are interested in earning and the higher the price of HIVE comes, the more attractive it becomes. This creates a lot more competition for resources and those who will naturally have the advantage are those who have not only been here the longest, but who have also added value to the community and built up a valuable social network.

New people can complain about this, but the social environment is a marketplace and first mover and early adopter advantage is still in effect. It doesn't mean new people can't benefit and make inroads, it just means that the more popular the platform gets, the harder one likely has to work for attention. However, because price is increasing and people are more likely to spread, there is actually more chance over time for a wider amount of people to get rewarded, on a more diverse range of content and contributions.

This competition is driven largely by price. For example, at the current values where my vote is worth 10 HIVE, I can allocate 100 HIVE a day, or 3000 HIVE a month, which at 70 cents, has a total value of 2100 dollars. People might be jealous of that or not, but I have been allocating that value to other people's posts for a long time already, it was just in HIVE. Because the value of HIVE was lower, people weren't attracted. For example, I have been voting about half a HIVE on most comments for years through the bear market - no one really cared, but those old HIVES stored are starting to add up for those who engaged with me a lot. 10x from now, those great comments I have received over the years will be well recognized in monetary value - if the people held.

Yet, because people look at the value of an individual post and new people often compare it to their own, without looking at the many (many more than mentioned here) dynamics in play and the way social networks operate, it is common that people get upset.

"Why is that shitpost worth 10x more than my opus?? It isn't fair - it will be the downfall of Hive!"

Not really. If anything, it might be one of the things that drives value in many ways, as it gives the appearance that anyone can do it. It won't be the downfall as while those shitposts will appear, there is also a large group of people looking to add and reward decent content too. And the more attention Hive gets, the more value-adding posts will get rewarded and the shitposts won't - as that is the way it works. Most of the stuff on YouTube back in the day was shit too and now, an even greater percentage of it is shit, it is just that because no one watches the shit, it isn't monetized and gets filtered out of the suggested viewing feeds.

Over 500 hours of content is uploaded to YouTube every minute - how much of it do you think is content gold and how much is turd - not polished turd, just turd?

What is interesting on Hive is because of how transparent everything is, it is very easy to see how entitled people get. No one on Hive is entitled to anything except for what they own. The things you own on Hive are as follows:

  • Your account
  • Your wallet
  • Your content
  • Your vote
  • Your behavior

Am I missing anything?

There are so many sides to the Hive blockchain and because of this, there can be a huge range of diversity in how people think it should be and act accordingly, each believing that their opinion is correct. A lot of people who come in to earn by creating content will end up spending more time making "better" content than what they see rewarded, but spend very little time on building a social network of value, engaging with the community, or developing a niche for themselves with an audience who love what they do - they become generic, and then wonder why no one cares about what they offer. Then they will say that it is the fault and failure of the platform that their brilliance wasn't recognized, without acknowledging that other people who came in at the same time as them have managed to build a strong presence. A lot of the people you will see well rewarded on their content started from nothing. While it is possible to say they were "easier times", there were a lot of other people who started at those same times, who have made no impact on the community at all.

Anyone can produce content, many even produce good content - very few can do it consistently for years regardless of price.

As price continues to increase, rather than looking at the changing dynamics of the community, many will focus on their own rewards without seeing how they fit into the grand scheme of things. People want it to be easy and they look at someone like me do it "easily" and say, "how come he earns on that shit and I have to struggle?". These people will rarely dig to find out the reasons and just assume that the system isn't fair.

Nothing is fair in this life. I can't help it that I joined in early 2017 and you didn't. I can't help it that I have some level of writing skill and a lot of experience in my life. I can't help it that I have been willing to sit here day after day, year after year doing exactly this, learning as I go, helping where I can - powering up when I earn.

What people will likely find if they were to dig into the accounts that regularly earn well is that they have been around a while, engaging with their audience, developing their niche, building their own blockchained personality. How does a new account expect to get supported if no one really knows who they are as an account and why they are? While the blockchains are about trustless transactions, social networks are about building trust, even between people who have never and perhaps will never meet.

I have done this for 100 dollars. I have done this for three dollars. I have done it for free.

The internet is full of content.
Only Hive has Hive people.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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I think all of us from 'the old days' have suffered from lack of attention. I remember at least 2-3 $0.00 posts and that was when STEEM was $2.40 or so. Now anyone can come on here and get something if they produce anything half-decent. I look for them all the time.

We are only at 72c or so. What happens when it's $2.40 again? 'He's getting too much...', or is he? Should I stop writing as I may get unwanted attention? I wasn't even here in the really old days and yet I do well..., it's not by way of coincidence.

I see some newbies doing some great content and getting double figures off the bat. It can be done but if they have some guidance and the right attitude it's a lot easier. Just ask @grindle, he loves it and his writing has improved no end from the stodgy work he did in those first efforts.

Longer content is always going to attract the votes unless its some kind of artistic work. I have said this all before.. oh and.. thanks for the vote!

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Well that’s a backhanded compliment if ever I saw one @slobberchops I shall take it in the spirit that was intended, oh guru of the hive 😂

LOL, your early stuff made me laugh and was typical of the reports I used to read on 28days etc..., with some history and then the images with little else.

'I am an explorer, there's a lot of dickheads about who pretend to be.. blah blah' - this is how they all started.

Now it's right into the action.., much better, more story focused and more readable to even non-explorers. Entertainment or Education is always the best... a combo of both is perfect.

Yup, that’s all I was used to, I perused the posts on a lot of hive communities, listened to your wise words and it all sort of clicked into place.

This has brought a new dimension to my exploring and photography. I’m glad I stuck it out. Still haven’t got a fucking clue about hive though! But tbh I don’t care, it’s good to be in a place full of grown ups.

Oh.. you know a lot more than when you started. It would be great if you 'didn't have to know', that way it would be more approachable to the masses.

Getting there, getting there.

lols. I didn't want to focus on it... :D

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Try starting an Instagram account and getting thousand's of votes off the bat. On any platform it takes years to build a large following. The problem is crypto folk (as a mass generalization) expect things to be almost instant and have short attention spans.

I heard that one is tough to get a foothold. You get the masses but don't get the $$$. You can't have both (yet).

It's not a bug, it's a feature.
This is where other peoples' beliefs about fairness don't get me robbed.
Cry your heart out, beg and plead, moan and whine all you like.
Your tears are delicious.

I think why so many people do get robbed by the top, is their expectation of fairness. Most don't see how rigged the system actually is.

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I have found that I post when it is $0.13 and $1.05 - I am happier when it is high, but, I have posted for free before, so anything I get, I am grateful. For years, I tipped every post because my vote wasn't worth hardly anything, so I put a lot of my earnings back in tips. I know. I finally have a vote that you can see, although paltry in terms of yours. :))

I believe that people that have been here through good times and bad and invested in the platform deserve the rewards they are seeing now. Some day, I will be there and I will feel no guilt whatsoever.

As always, inch by inch will win. You will never hear me complain. Have a great night. @slobberchops deserves a ton of upvotes. I can remember reading him a few years back and his posts were awesome and barely rewarded. There were people like @bigtom13 and many more... I just didn't get it. But, hopefully, everyone like that will get their due.

I am looking forward to the time where the value is high enough that thousands of people can get tens and 100s on their posts each day - then further, where my own vote is able to support entire communities. Isn't that worth a handful of years of hard work? I believe so.

It is hard to reward every post, so it ends up being that people reward the people they trust - the content is a platform to build trust upon, the interaction the bricks.

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Yes, I believe you are right. Supporting entire communities. I don't dare to think it could happen! It would be nice if people can get 10's and 100's every day, but, in the meantime, I think that building relationships and interacting is a great start.

It doesn't hurt that this is a pretty great place too. Now, how do we get rid of spammers? They are running rampant right now.

It is hard to reward every post, so it ends up being that people reward the people they trust - the content is a platform to build trust upon, the interaction the bricks.

Thank you so much for your support! I hope you know I wasn't vying for anything extra, you already do enough. But, thank you! That made my day!

I've just been having fun watching the tribes/communities evolve and watching the engagement

I'm not really good at it - but I do what i can when time permits

Only Hive has Hive people.

That's a nice enough place for me to fit in ;)

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The tribes have done really well, some better than others of course. I like how from the early days, a few have evolved into full-fledged and expanding projects, like LEO, haveyoubeenhere and NFT Showroom. Nice to see :)

Everyone can fit into Hive, as anyone can build for themselves -if they are willing.

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Once we get into the dollars range you’ll see the masses onboard. People truly want dollars instead of cents.

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Those who had some fun here earning cents, will now see them transform into dollars. For someone like me who has far more fun here than I ever did on other social media, it is not a bad deal. :)

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You've got a really brilliant post.
I wish that I missed the social part and entered into discussions very little

In the comment section is where all the fun is! :D

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Unfortunately, I realized this 4 years later.

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It is certainly true that those that have been here through 2 bulls and a long crypto winter certainly see things differently. Great to see you're enjoying the journey, and the fruits of your labor.

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It isn't about deserving it, it is about having the perspective and understanding of what it took to get here and to appreciate where we have come from. May as well enjoy it while it lasts :)

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I have done this for 100 dollars. I have done this for three dollars. I have done it for free.

I doubt I will see a $100 rewarded post, but that is fine. I have had one recently go over 20, now that was fun to see, but the 3 and free are more like it for me, and for me that is fine. I fully understand if I were to be more consistent my reward levels would be more consistent, but we all live very different lives and have very different abilities.

For the new users looking at rewards they really do need to look at who, why, and how, it is a lot of work. Some people like yourself and a few others are able to keep their content fresh everyday, sometimes two or three times a day, it is because they work at it, they don't whine about it.

People new to Hive sometimes also do not understand that they need to reply to at least three of the comments they get if they do get any, and that they need to visit other peoples work, take a look at some of the things others are doing, drop a comment on a few of them a vote and if they get a response they should take the time to to acknowledge it if it is an open ended what more do you have to say reply comment.

They have time to post, and time to whine, but no time for any other user, to succeed on Hive people need to give it time, and take the time to engage with others.

I doubt I will see a $100 rewarded post, but that is fine.

I think that it won't be too far away, but who knows. Consistency does play a role though.

it is because they work at it, they don't whine about it.

In Finnish, my favorite saying is "Do, or cry and do" - either way, if it is something that has to be done, it has to be done. Here, it is opt-in and people can choose what they do, many choose to whine.

I find that many people these days have the attitude of "I don't get out of bed for less than..." - some people spend a lot of time in bed it seems.

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In time I may get more consistent, but in reality I know myself, and I have a tendency to shift focus to often on varying things, reading, writing, playing games, taking pictures, I did manage to work for over thirty years, not sure how, but I did, I think 35 in total. Since those consistent get up and go to work days, I have not been consistent in much of anything. Well not quite true, i have for the last 3.5 years been pretty consistent in voting for stuff the first two hours I wake up and the last hour before going to bed.

There will always be the whiners and criers and I don't think they will ever learn what they are doing wrong.

Pfft they don't know what real struggle is, back in my day... XD

Having said that I did notice stuff went UP and was like oh that must be happening again I HAVE BIGGER UPVOTES priorities (I'm a bit slow it's probably been like that for a while but I only noticed today because I actually paid attention to things I don't normally really care about).

I still only have a really vague understanding of how hive works no matter how many posts people write about it x_x it's only ever been a pain when I suddenly need to explain it to someone else (like the doubting thomas I live with).

Pfft they don't know what real struggle is, back in my day... XD

What is interesting is that they might know real struggle, but fail to translate their abilities and experience into valuable content. It requires a different set of skills.

I still only have a really vague understanding of how hive works no matter how many posts people write about it

It is easier when it is shown I think - like I reckon I could sit you down and show you how all the familiar things you do know, connect to the things you don't yet know.

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I was being 100% facetious, I don't know what real struggle is, all of mine have been easy and standard :) (in hindsight, I'm pretty sure I thought it was the hardest thing ever and nobody could possibly understand just how difficult it was because nobody had ever had it as hard as me when I was going through them XD)

Are you talking hive specific "valuable content"?

I'm reasonably certain you could give it a red hot crack and I would try to understand and maybe we'd get lucky, I think I'm too dumb for that level of understanding though XD

I don't know about you, but "being facetious" always reminds of "being a little shit" :D

Difficulty is personal - like what is considered spicy food :)

Are you talking hive specific "valuable content"?

Yeah - or even in telling stories socially. People see to have lost the art of storytelling, even though it is a social connector.

I'm reasonably certain you could give it a red hot crack and I would try to understand and maybe we'd get lucky, I think I'm too dumb for that level of understanding though XD

“Don’t try to make them happy, you’ll only get in trouble. Don’t try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it irritates the pig.”
― Anthony de Mello

:D

Bahhahahahahahahaaa XD

I love telling stories XD I try to tell them like my dad, his side of the family are the most epic storytellers. Though while I can lay on the Singlish I just can't do or time what seems like very Singlish specific sound effects XD

I am absolutely a little shit, my kids had to learn from the best (or the worst? XD) after all ;D

Oh back on storytelling, it's another one of those things people seem to be good at or not great at. Even back in our day when computers weren't that much of a thing (and even less of a thing out in the middle of nowhere where I was), there were only some people that could spin a decent yarn.

"a lot of people focus on the dollar value and don't necessarily understand the mechanics behind it in regard to Hive"

A lot of truth in this post and we will hear the complaints again as new people come in and the token value goes up. I found it curious myself that many whined about the unfair advantages the super early adopters had with cheap tokens on the old place for the 2017 bull run but were so quick to leave when the price was on it's way down yet the token rewards got better especially after the platform split. Anyone claiming the long term game should have caught on that just continuing thru would pay off in the future, storing unspent economic energy for later as I like to call it along with the opportunity to build a name in a less competitive environment. However you shape it, it's a great experiment and tool to analyze social dynamics.

Anyone claiming the long term game should have caught on that just continuing thru would pay off in the future,

People don't want to understand, they want it to be handed to them on a platter - pre-chewed, digested and ready to come out the other side.

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LOL, that's pretty accurate, their loss. !LUV

Hey @tarazkp, you were just shared some LUV. :) With at least 5 LUV in your wallet, you can give up to 3 LUV per day, for free. See the LUV tokens in your wallet at https://hive-engine.com or learn about LUV at https://peakd.com/@luvshares https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmZosc5B9VvqHJs1xVbLoxxGGc6BfmwJukG1dAr3J6PBLX

That @slobberchops is a pretty decent bloke isn't he? He is one of the first "friends" I ever made on this place about three years ago. It has been great following him all this time! I've been in that place where I don't feel vote values are fair. I never assumed it would be the downfall of Hive, but it certainly doesn't help retain new users sometimes. Not really sure there is a good way to fix it. It is just a fact of life.

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but it certainly doesn't help retain new users sometimes.

I partially agree. The people who do the work anyway end up tending to be the ones who earn, those who complain about payouts don't continue. In some ways it is a filter for those who are willing to create and those who will always be consumers or, renters.

What is going to be interesting later is that there will be a consumer only class on Hive, who read from Hive, not caring where they read from, it is just another source.

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That is a good point. I don't regret persevering here, but I do know there are times when I really was ready to give up. I have been in that space and I know how it feels. As much as we want to think we aren't here for the money on some level we are all kind of here for the money. It may become less of a factor as we spend more time on here, but at the end of the day we are earning so money matters.

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Yeah, it sucks. The worst time for me was the bidbot years - over two years of watching 1% of the people milk the platform for millions, while those who chose not to earned pennies.

Yeah, I am with you. I think I might have used a bid bot once or twice before I realized what I was doing and how it was viewed. Then I stopped and never looked back despite the reduction in rewards. I never made that much anyway. Even with bid bots.

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turd - not polished turd, just turd?

Just think of all the server costs over at YouTube hosting the turds . I guess its in the eye of the beholder however.

I have no idea how much those servers must be to run, but I guess that is why Google has data centers all over the world - also goes to show hom much they make, if they are happy to host all that turd.

Imagine having to spend the next 500 hours of your waking life, watching a minute of uploaded YouTube content.

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It feels wonderful to be able to give back to the community!

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Yes, it does indeed :)

It was definite a post where I learned quite a bit. I knew the value of my vote changed with the price of HIVE but I had no idea about the price feed. Personally I think HIVE will be higher in the future so I plan to build my bags.

It doesn't matter to me if the price decreases or increases. I may be off to a late start compared to some of the people who were here at years, but I will strive to show up everyday.

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https://hiveblocks.com/

On the right-hand side, you can see some interesting numbers you might want to investigate further. You can also search an account and with a little effort, find every transaction they have made - not the handiest way, but I don't know SQL :)

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Yea I know about that site but I tend not to use it very often. I might have to dig into it a bit when I have some time in the future. I know how to use SQL but I haven't bother touching HIVESQL yet. I would still have to look into the data structures and figure out what I want to write a query.

!ENGAGE 10

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but I haven't bother touching HIVESQL yet

As far as I know, access is available for free now through @arcange - it is always great to have more people playing with the data.

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Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

Make good content and enjoy it

Every day I try to make it good - I always enjoy :)

Liat deh

I enjoyed reading this, I’m glad I’m not here for riches, just for the enjoyment of sharing my work and seeing other people’s efforts.
I’ve never looked at anything on goontube, am I missing anything?
I still need to buy that ps5 though !

He definetely deserves the vote, when I look at his posts and see those old buildings that he has to go through and all of his adventures, I can see the effort and the work.
!ENGAGE 20

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

Am I missing anything?

Yes! I'm afraid you're missing; your kisses, hugs and smiles. Hahahaha

I couldn't help it mate. I had to reblog this post. I feel obligued to come later creating one of those cryptic & hilarious posts of mine to promote this explanatory jewel of a post further and farther everywhere. The best in deep explanation about the intringulis of how the Hive economics and social dynamics works that I had read so far. Great post indeed!!

So, I am still thinking with what kind of brainy funny pictures I should illustrate such cryptic post of mine in my always twistedly "posh" and outlandish pink style.

Cheers!!

Yes! I'm afraid you're missing; your kisses, hugs and smiles. Hahahaha

I actually just got all of those things 30 seconds ago. =)

I do not doubt it. That has to be part of your daily diet from at least 4 years ago. LoL

But in the context of your post. I rather meant that those three additional assets that I've mentioned, are the ones that you really were missing and you've forgotten to include and highlight in your bullet points. :)

  • Your account
  • Your wallet
  • Your content
  • Your vote
  • Your behavior
  • Your kisses
  • Your hugs
  • Your smiles.

Very Good Read, Thanks Taraz.