Super Positive Headline and It's Even A Hive Post!

in #life4 years ago (edited)

Hooray for Hive content!  I'll even say Bitcoin!  Cryptocurrency as well!

Best post ever so far!  So much wonderful!  So much...

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Have you ever wondered:

Why is so much Hive and crypto content consistently trending?

Answer: Because the "likwid" account downvotes artists, art, photographers, photos and people in general...

Especially when they do a good job.

Earlier today I received a downvote to the tune of about 40 bucks from the "likwid" account.  The post itself even clearly states the downvotes don't bother me, in general.  That doesn't mean I don't know what a slap on the face feels like though.

My initial reaction inside my head went something like:

"A bit excessive, don't you think?"

This isn't my first rodeo though, and I've been to a few picnics as well.

About a week ago I noticed the "likwid" account had been downvoting successful posts that didn't involve Hive or crypto.

A photographer I've followed for a long time went silent for awhile on Steem, came to Hive, and for the first time ever managed to produce a popular post.  A popular post usually has more money beside it than other not so popular posts.  That member was incredibly happy until the "likwid" account came along to wipe away about a third or more of the value.

The photographer wasn't angry.  They were sad; disappointed.  Anything even resembling a good day, wiped away.

In this post from about a week ago I said:

Celebrate success; let people have fun.  If you see a post making the big bucks, realize it can also be considered a generous offering since half of that value is going back to the contributing community members who voted.

Popularity is common in this industry.  It happens.  If more and more consumers are voting for something or someone because they like it or like them, let it happen!

If all we're going to do is allow developers, a few worthy witnesses, and some folks with fat wallets to earn the big bucks while the rest of the general content creators are forced to work under some kind of an unwritten rule of a salary cap, that'll just lead to disappointment; animosity.

I didn't mention any names.

I felt it was good advice in general.  I had the "likwid" account's actions against that photographer in mind when I wrote that though.

The bogus "reason" given to the photographer went something along the lines of, "I felt the post was over rewarded."

At this point though I'd consider that excuse to downvote to be a bold-faced lie, since the "likwid" account will happily upvote Hive and crypto content to levels much higher or about the same as some of the art and photography getting downvoted.

It's not about reward adjustment.  The "likwid" account appears to be intentionally sabotaging the trending page content rankings, pushing art down and crypto content up.

This has been happening for awhile.  Here's a recent screenshot of the "likwid" account's activity:

Screenshot 713.png

And my response to this bad actor:

You're picking on artists.  It's clear as day.  Straight up attempting to scare away artists from the platform.  You upvote Hive content, crypto content, and downvote artists.  That behavior needs to stop.  Look around.  There are comments here already wondering why you're downvoting.  It's because you pick on artists, photographers, etc.

Do you want this platform to succeed or are you here to make lives miserable for talented people all while turning this into a boring crypto forum?

Do you even realize the crypto attention economy is minuscule in comparison to arts and entertainment?  More people enjoy arts and entertainment in this world than crypto.  Arts and entertainment generates billions annually.  Did you even read the posts you downvoted?  To me, based on that screenshot above, it appears as if you scrolled through the trending page, downvoting arts and entertainment only.

I suggest you reconsider this irrational behavior of yours and practice some restraint; self-discipline.  No artist is demanding you enjoy their work.  If you do not enjoy that content, don't look at it.  Other people do enjoy it and you're going to have to learn to accept that.  Chase these folks away by making their experience here miserable and it'll partially be your fault this place struggles to get off the ground.  Do you even know how many hours these artists put into their work?  Can you do better?

Looking closer...

One of the art posts that was downvoted had 20 reblogs and several comments.  Mine had several comments and so did the other posts.  People enjoyed that content.

I have nothing against the Blockchain Bastards or their work in general but their content has been sitting high on the trending page for several hours and at the time of this writing, I only see one comment under that post:

Screenshot 714.png

It's also set to earn far more than some of the artists and photographers who got smacked. The "likwid" account supports that but will target and downvote artists with tons of engagement then claim they're being over rewarded for earning less...

In a response to a comment I received on the post that got downvoted I said:

I have no use for a makeup tutorial but if I see someone attracting consumers, that's a win for me as well.  All the things I don't like, provided they're genuine efforts and attracting eyes benefit me indirectly.  If I go to Youtube to listen to music and end up watching Joe Rogan, Joe can thank the music for that, even if he hates the songs.

Hey crypto crowd!

Are you paying attention?

Do you realize now, we're not working against each other, we're working with each other?  Teamwork.

How do you feel about a bad actor attempting to strip away potential spillover and actively working towards shrinking your market?

If someone came here to enjoy some art or photos, then clicks your crypto content out of curiosity, isn't that a good thing?

Are we not attempting to make cryptocurrency go mainstream or is this to be Safe Space Bubble Land where everyone gets to be really good at preaching to the choir?

I call 'bullshit'!

If Hive truly wants to be a just a basic crypto forum, one of the best ways to achieve that would be to punish everyone else for doing a good job.

On Steem, people were brainwashed into fearing whales who acted like bullies.

That's not happening here on Hive.

Freedom of the arts.  If you're producing crypto content, you're actively participating in the arts/entertainment/information industry.  Maybe you wrote an article.  What do the first three letters of 'article' spell?  This is a level playing field.

I put all of my projects on hold today so I could come here and tell you all directly I will not tolerate any members acting nefariously in order to impede progress on the Hive platform.

Not happening.

The "likwid" account's deplorable behavior needed to be addressed.

Is anyone out there listening?  Are you aware of the fact there are thousands of people currently annoyed with the sheer amount of Hive content consistently trending and receiving high rewards daily?

Were you aware of the fact a whale has been consistently downvoting everything else in order to make it appear as if the wisdom of the crowd only wants Hive and crypto related content?

I've been a member of this scene for nearly four years so based on experience I must ask: How many more months do we have to put up with this and how many people need to leave before anyone even notices it's a problem?

Your posts encouraging quality content, encouraging engagement, and encouraging growth; they all look really nice — squeaky clean — on the surface.

But if all we're going to do is preach to the choir, maybe we should be practicing what we preach as well?

Since they're Hive posts, the "likwid" account agrees with the concepts, since that member is upvoting that stuff; then he turns around and works against what he pretends to support.

Conclusion

I'm not complaining about a downvote I received, but I already know this post can be twisted into that, so the real problem can be ignored and get even worse over time.

I'll admit today I've lost a tremendous amount of confidence in this platform, due to the actions of one bad apple.

I can already tell you many people are annoyed and feeling disappointed due to the actions of that same bad apple.

That same bad apple is contributing to what seems to be annoying thousands of other members.

I didn't come to Hive with the same amount of patience I once had while dealing with that clusterfuck known as Steem for three and a half years.

I don't think I have it in me to spend another nearly four years watching bogus "investors" shooting themselves in the foot.  Isn't the concept of researching before you invest common sense in the world of cryptocurrency?  Yes.

Yet we have "investors" who don't even understand basics in this industry like how consumer attention spills over onto things the consumer would not have been interested in until it's placed directly under their nose.

Punishing the majority market with the hopes of drawing more attention to the minority market is so beyond counterproductive it becomes moronic.

I ain't got time for this shit.

Credits:
All art and images seen here were produced digitally, by me.
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All content within this blog is 100% organic ACTUAL CONTENT and contains no paid vote additives!

"Enough is enough."

Images © 2020 @NoNamesLeftToUse.

Edit: Just a bit of an update.

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The @likwid account has now downvoted all of my recent work, blindly, like I'm supposed to give a fuck. What this means now is all my work from here on out will be targeted by this individual. I'll be bullied forever.

I'm leaving, I guess? No longer welcome here? It breaks my heart but that's how it has to be. Maybe one more followup post and decide from there.

Sort:  

Look at me (no really, look!), I’m even replying. @Likwid helped contribute to me leaving the platform left three months ago dude—after three years of producing content. Something had to give. That and his @transisto account too. They downvoted several of mine to the tune of negative 15-20 bucks back when I was still producing. Then he’s teamed up with others with highly misappropriated delegations who preach Twitter #posh, and vote authors based on stupid shit like their body position when they piss or the next pumped coin.

This reply is sofa king long I’m thinking maybe I should address “Hive,” “Bitcoin,” and whatever other topics interest the cute little whalies wallets because as much as they run this platform, they run quality out.

Ok, it’s passed my stoned time, next time I come here I’ll have completely forgotten what I was frustrated about. Nice to ’see’ you again dude.

Guess who gave me a massive slap the day I vanished for something like four months..

I know this one! ”I get it.”

Perfect storm, eh. NoNames, How’s the weather?

Nice rambling, keep producing. 👌

Produce what? These shitposts of jrcornel that you love to upvote?
As a curator, I'm tired to try find decent content and more well distributed shares to improve the quality of this platform, everyday, to then, have people like you screwing it all.

This place has all kind of authors and public with different tastes. Your narrow mind and bias makes you vote what you like, and downvote arts because you just don't like them. Even if the art post has countless hours of work behind, and the trading post has just a couple of captures, links and sentences.

Well done, dude! Let's reward and punish, just by our tastes... that's very good for Hive (sarcasm intend).

Seriously man.. you could use your huge vote power to make Hive a more better, attractive, and profitable place for you and everybody, instead this crap...

Nice bullying. Keep pushing people away.

Are you mocking me now? Feel like a tough guy?

Typical bully. You have no power over me though. You're not even good at bullying. More or less just acting like any other random teenager online. Making yourself look foolish at the same time. You're probably feeling insulted right now and won't be able to control your anger and frustrations that stem from your own actions. Mad at yourself but you'll prefer to shoot the messenger. That's what a bully would do though.

I suggest finding ways to improve your self esteem. That will help you. I don't take it personally that you act the way you act. I know you can't help it but you can do things to improve yourself. That's up to you though. Not me.

You have a sad profile picture and now acting like an entitled clown.

I though you'd enjoy sadclown.gif

I'm not complaining about a downvote I received, but I already know this post can be twisted into that, so the real problem can be ignored and get even worse over time.

That's a quote from the post above. The first post you downvoted of mine also states the downvotes don't bother me. At the bottom of this post in the update it says I don't care about the hissy fit mass blind downvote you handed out.

Clearly you have an issue with reading comprehension. You thought downvoting could be used as a show of strength. Then assumed you could use the 'entitled clown' or 'entitled baby' argument because you expected me to be whining about the downvotes. That's not the case though.

Again. Your bully tactics have no power over me. You've failed.

The profile picture doesn't represent sadness. Tears are not made out of blood. It has more to do with death. You can see how the eyes are closed. I produced that image myself.

I do like clowns. But I can see how you're attempting to use that as some kind of a weapon in an attempt to make me appear weak. That won't be happening.

I offered some valuable advice in the post here. Many other posts of mine contain good advice as well. I think if you took the time to read it, and spoke to me as you would anyone else when you don't feel like acting like a bully, we'd be able to make some progress.

I wouldn't mind talking to you but at this point I think you're more about acting petty. If you feel like talking, you know where to find me.

I do suggest you stop bullying folks though. Especially since you don't like more than half of the effort here, according to your recent low quality post. You'll just end up alienating far too many folks if you can't find ways to control yourself. You said I'm acting entitled but it's clearly you who wants their way and wants it now, so you'll throw a fit, which is what you're doing, unfortunately.

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*source

I'm placing this here because I feel it sheds a lot of light on where your mind is and why you're downvoting artists, photographers, etc. This helps prove a lot of my points here today.

You simply don't like things. You want control. It bothers you that others like things you don't. You feel they're in the wrong for enjoying things you don't. You'd prefer to move the goalposts so the system better suits what you value. You basically look down on majority of the people here and have no respect for them.

You don't understand this industry. If you're downvoting arts and entertainment, all while wanting this platform to go mainstream, your actions actually contribute to making it far more difficult to achieve mass adoption. As my post clearly states, the market for arts and entertainment is massive. You're attempting to stall progress simply because you don't like it. That's irrational and I told you that under your most recent @likwid account post, which is quoted here in this post.

Artists and entertainers know a lot about this industry. You should learn about these things, especially since you're invested. You'd have to step down from your bully role first though and recognize the fact the talent that surrounds you doesn't exist just to piss you off. Curb your entitlement issues and we can make progress.

It worked, I forgot already.

I'm really curious to know how ocd/ocdb "teamed up" with transisto if you're referring to us with the #posh preachers. I have no memory of having downvoted you, in fact I do remember curating you as all of our votes are manual and aside from compilation posts and now the upcoming community collaboration the majority have been cast by me.

Yeah went and checked real quick and scrolling down with the ocdb account I could see about 15 votes and no downvotes on your account so maybe you were talking about someone else. :p

Don't take it personally. People get frustrated, start seeing red, everyone starts blending in and looking the same. Even had to correct myself here a couple times to make sure I direct my frustration at the true problem and not everyone as a whole. It's not easy. I'm currently talking to someone who's afraid to talk here and now. The whole Hive vibe was ruined for them too because of this same individual being a menace.

I generally agree with the post and your opinion. It's kind of stupid people are complaining about trending being shit and then when big accounts attempt to co-operate to get other type of posts to trending with bigger votes (and in turn sacrifice curation rewards due to bigger votes - not to mention ocdb almost always votes late and has shit CR efficiency) to then get disincentivized even more by downvotes. No wonder other big accounts only cast 8-15% votes on content with no rewards to maximize CR and stay off trending.

The term overrewarded is lame in my opinion, they're either not used to the sudden spike of the price or keep seeing rewards as the displayed one and not considering the 50% going to curators. I was sad to see @rainite get downvoted on his post as if $100 is too much to make these days.

It's super annoying to have my work finally make the trending page then have to sit and watch people complain about what's there constantly. They're never specific, but it would make more sense to single content out rather than throwing us all under the bus. So that's been bugging me, I'll be honest. I don't feel like I've done something wrong to deserve that hatred. Doing well here is fucking frowned upon. Nobody ever checks to see that I got there honestly, after years of trying and doing well. That ends that part of the rant.

So many problems would be gone if people could simply mind their own business and learn to celebrate success. I've been saying that forever. Nobody cares it seems, they just keep bitching and don't give anyone credit for a job well done.

I also said this in a comment here:

Witnessing the start of the death spiral. What happens next is fewer quality publishers will have a reason to do a good job, leading to less effort. Fewer curators will vote for things like art, photos, and general content, since their rewards will be wiped away. Then people become desperate and start blogging about hive and crypto, saturaing the market further, making it harder for people succeed and far less appealing to a general audience which leads to fewer potential new members wanting to get involved.

I've already seen this happen on Steem and now it's starting here. I also said what's happening with these abusive downvotes is the worst thing that could happen to content on this platform, but it's happening. I'm not wrong. Been doing this for years. Not just some moron trying to collect tokens with shit posts. I've studied the business model, watched the people, seen the results.

Those free downvotes were part of the EIP deal to help combat abuse since abuse was running rampant. People are using them for stupid reasons like, "I don't like your post." Only a monkey would slap everything they don't like.

Promoting other platforms, misappropriating delegations were just two—not to be confused with each other.

No, you’ve never downvoted me, thanks. I’ve never downvoted you either.

I'm curious if you see #posh as us promoting twitter when it's obviously meant the other way around, though. :P

Uhmm, I see it as promoting twitter more than Hive. I also see a lot of down votes on accounts for platform cross posting being called plagiarism when it is their own content. People trying or cross platform posting from their YT site, to steem, to hive, to 3speak, dtube, on Hive they need to have proof or ask permission of a non-centralized authority to post their own content here it seems. The only place I watch non music YT videos is on Hive post, I do not as a rule visit YT.

I had a twitter account, I never liked twitter, and I am pretty sure if people pulled their twitter content into HIVE, it would be down voted automaticaly after a bit, just like what happened to the platform sharing app that used to be available on Steem.

I am not much of a content maker, just a content reader, a real content reader. I watched as Authors were driven off of Steem because they were sharing their published works with the people on steem, some were looking for suggestions and using steem as a feed back site, they are gone, because of the actions of a very small group of people.

For now there is still some good content, some professional and some amateur content, the continued lopsidedness of a few accounts being able to control the type of content that is made available is/will be the death of Hive, just as Steem is dying a slow death and content type is being controlled by a central authority.

There is a serious need for people to re-evaluate the witness selection/retention system, and the down vote system.

Feels very familiar.

November 2017, I received three ~$50 flags from [someone else, but associated, don't have the energy for a shit storm so redacting the name] on my fiction stories.

Reason? The view counter didn't show enough views to justify my payout.
It's always the content creators that are slapped in the face, and then told not to complain, as downvotes are part of the system.

I mean yes, they are. But using them against content creators that actually bring something to the platform is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous! Some of us have been here for years, always trying our best, never attempting to cheat the system. Simply creating. Thousands invested, never milking.

"Downvoted because downvotes!"

No. It's talent and that's not allowed here because that's what makes their shit posts look like shit.

Ignore, forget, fast forward ....

Problem is that if you ignore this it destroys the platform. Any other place you could ignore it, but here we have to work actively against corruption. Only the community can deal with things here. There's no overlord Zuckerberg who can do it for us.

Actually it is odd behaviour - trolling the platform as such probably and with a lot of investment to back it. I asked in what was called Steemflag..whatever Discord which is now called Hive-DR? They probably know what it is and tons of gossip and things I can't go around being bothered with in my daily routines.

Everyone knows trolling is what folks with low self esteem do, so why would one want to put their vulnerabilities out on display, for all to see? "I'm having a meltdown!"

If I laugh at this, does that make me a bully? What is the politically correct response to all this?

As far as I can see it is just a vote selling scheme with this transisto bloke behind it. They should be closed down. I will see what the glorious downvoting party is saying about it...

In the meantime I'll be giving this plenty of thought. Where I stand right now, it's clear what I produce isn't welcome here, one needs to be a Hive cheerleader or else. My fucking investment is worthless to this crowd. Clearly I'm angry and that has nothing to do with the downvotes. It's the principle. Feeling like I've been duped by another goddamn crypto project. I recognize the fact plenty of people here mean well, probably the majority, but I have serious concerns about the future of this platform and most certainly will not be setting myself up for failure, especially after what happened on Steem over the course of many years with some of these same people at the helm. They want to develop for a community that in many ways seems like it's being taken for granted. Nobody will be able to talk any sense into this transisto guy. I've dealt with him before. He was doing the same thing months ago. Nothing changed. So I'd be a fool now to assume things will get better.

Everything you said here is absolutely true. Something few understand is the psychological factors at play with the gamification on "social media". I could go into detail about the studies that have led giants like Facebook to resist putting a dislike button on their interface, and the extent to which negative interaction can discourage users even with a mountain of positive reinforcement, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.

This is something I've know intuitively somehow since I began here. It is why I started @freezepeach, and it's something so subtle, yet so powerful, that it's easy to overlook, but foolhardy to do so.

There is a reason for downvotes, and reward disagreement is one of them. Quantifying this into an objective guideline is nearly impossible on the current one-size-fits-all reward model, and for the time being we're going to have this somewhat broken system that kind of works but is inconsistent enough to scare away people who abhor uncertainty. I'm learning to live with the fact that not everyone will understand the far reaching effects that downvotes carry, and we're doomed to mediocrity until SMTs can separate reward pools for different niches, and allow the value of the content dictate the price.

I'm aware of some of these studies. I support the downvotes when they're being used a tool to combat abuse. The downvotes are being abused though, by people who should know better, but they don't. It's embarrassing to be associated with morons like that.

A good artist will never sell themselves short. We don't put prices on our work here. There's no limit. A musician might sell an album at 20 per unit. They have no idea how many units will sell. If they go platinum, they won't be telling people to stop buying. A Youtuber doesn't tell people to stop watching at a million views. This concept of "reward disagreement" is being misinterpreted or spun intentionally to penalize people as a show of strength. Reward disagreement means you're doing something wrong and I disagree with a wrongdoing being rewarded.

And honestly, when it comes to SMT's, I'm not excited to go work for an unproven token that won't have the potential future of something like Steem once did or Hive could have. That's a story for another day though.

I think you are not understand the token mechanic that is supposed to work behind the downvotes. Upvotes means someone thinks you should be earning more, downvotes means someone thinks you should be earning less. Up-downvotes are used to have the community to come to an agreement on the value of your post. This is how this is supposed to work. However, many content creators think they are entitled only to upvotes and anything regulating this to have the community come to an agreement on some post payout is taking money away from them. This is not how this works. The inflation belongs to everyone, so, the stakeholders have the duty to regulate the distribution (with up AND downvotes).

That's just unnecessary spin. You're clearly missing the part about how that individual is targeting specific content and downvoting blind. Making user experience horrid. Even my previous work was downvoted blindly recently as punishment. That's not 'curating'.

And I hope you're not placing me in this 'entitled' department because if you are, you've made a big mistake in judging my character.

There's no need to explain honest curation here. That's not what this is about and honestly, if the perspective of the artist or creative type is never taken into consideration, and we're forced to work under this ridiculous 'code is law' nonsense while common sense is thrown out the door, this place will forever struggle.

I think there is a way to huge focus on rewards and downvotes are taken way too personally. I do strongly believe that a lot of the enormously voted posts about hive deserve some decent sized downvotes too.

Why is the user experience horrid? If you put a video on youtube and get 1000 upvotes and 10 downvotes is that not something you'd expect?

Again, where you're attempting to take this conversation is unnecessary. I've been saying similar things for years defending honest curation but we're not talking about honest curation here. I won't be reminding you again.

I get the complication of having a high stake account like likwid downvote stuff "big time". However, the only way to counter this is by searching for other whales that are willing to counter likwid downvotes with upvotes if they agree that this is excessive at the current economic model.

That's why people are talking about taking this stuff to SMTs, if you got an art community and only the art community users hold the SMT (basically) they decide who is rewarded. Depending on the size of the art community a value is then established.

That's the only way this can be handled (without centralized control).

And no, I was not aiming at you with the comment. I was aiming at a lot of people here in the comments that were complaining in general about downvotes.

The problem remains, if you wouldn't see the post value of each post as prominently as it is atm, people wouldn't notice this and the user experience wouldn't suffer.

Damn man... did you actually have any dialogue with the owner of this account about this? Or has it just been a case of they started downvoting without any warning?

I see the trendthis initiative has also been targeted by a whale too which had the purpose of getting non-Hive content to the trending page - that lasted all but 24 hours!

It'd be nice to know what to the expectation here is from large accounts for content shared here. I did leave a comment on another article where Hive itself is the underlying code and and blockchain tech on which to build dapps.

So PeakD is the blogger's dapp, travelfeed is the travelers dapp, dsound is the musician and music lovers dapp (assuming there's any development still happening). Why not have a Hive (code, dev, witness, blockchain specific) content dapp where these guys can all use to market and upvote Hive content to their hearts content and the individual dapps can then focus on their target market?

Meh, I don't know, it's the double edged sword of a decentralised, freedom of speech stake based platform isn't it? Stake talks at the end of the day and I don't know how you overcome it unless you start placing a cap on the max amount a post can earn/a person can vote/downvote... but then that's not decentralised blah blah blah...

Just blind downvoting. Didn't bother me until I noticed who and what types of content were targeted during this pathetic hissy fit.

I didn't know about the 'trendthis' stuff. Haven't even heard of it.

I had suggested that specific content have it's own home as well. But instead now the arts and entertainment is getting downvoted. So, the opposite of progress happened.

Even placing arts and entertainment in a community means someone will come along and take a shit on it now. This is really fucking bad for Hive. At this point though I feel nothing will change. I've noticed now, after digging further, more and more people have been targeted. It's all arts and entertainment. Probably the worst thing that could happen to this place when it comes to content is happening now.

Jeez...guess I'll be next on the hit list then...!

Thought we had moved passed all of this and left it behind on Steem. Let's make "Entertainment Chain"

Only if you do good! So make sure you do shitty, or else. Maybe we should decline rewards since we don't deserve them! That would be fun!

Was that too much sarcasm?

I was dumb enough to think the shady aspect of Steem was going to stay there.

There's actually quite a lot of potential in the even just the thought of an entertainment chain. A top twenty witness already told me the content is worthless, on Hive and that was a couple weeks ago. If it comes down to it, why not fork? LOL!

Honestly though, there's enough competition now. None of us need to be here. Don't take anything I'm saying to heart or too seriously though at this point. I'm still quite sour and pissed off about what I'm seeing here. I'd like to be able to joke around and show off some art instead of dealing with all this but I can't see that happening now. Can't fake it. Powering down and everything... but still thinking.

I'll endeavour to make some of the worst content imaginable to avoid getting hit 😂

Ah, wonder what the top 20 witnesses want to see as content or what they want Hive to be? Shall we start mining "ENTMT" coin now? Haha

I try to stay out of the politics or at least have a balanced viewpoint but sometimes the facepalm behind the screen spills out! I'm exploring a music streaming site as another option to post music and see how that pans out but I've still got some targets I want to reach with Hive.

The good thing about powerdown is that it takes 7 days until you get your first payment which long enough to think and let the dust settle a bit - just don't think too hard and make some art... then decline your rewards when you're ready to post it 😉

You’re spot-on as usual, my friend. I’ve been in denial about this happening, but I’ve noticed it, too. I wish we could talk about art freely, and that it could be rewarded freely without repercussion—however, in a world where whatever’s clever, this kind of thing is bound to happen in some sense sooner or later. I just hope it doesn’t become the long-term norm on Hive. I have had high hopes and have seen actual quality rewarded here—but trolls exist in all forms and on all platforms, and to think Hive might be exempt from vote-trolling I think was a bit high-reaching for me personally. Lol, I always want a nice lil island where we can be artists and live happily ever after.

I had multiple posts downvoted on the-platform-that-shall-not-be-named, as well as on Appics because I wasn’t posting about the subject of the blockchain. I also had patrons who regularly upvoted my posts because they considered it the kind of quality material they were looking for on the platform.

It’s an odd tug of war when you have a perpetual philosophical battle between people who want to just be artists and people who just want to circle jerk the platform. That’s never made sense to me in a long-term sense...like I don’t understand the connection between getting new users to the platform and trending posts that would totally go over the heads of regular people who are new to the platform or new to blockchains in general.

It starts to feel a bit like E! or Bravo network shows where celebrities wax extensive about themselves in an insular bubble of entitlement...it’s definitely alienating. On today’s episode of Real Housewives of Hive...we’re going to talk about ourselves...only.

Anyway—thanks for all you bring here. I know it’s frustrating to deal with large downvotes with a big pull. But you have people here who love you, so don’t get too frustrated. Please. Or do, and just vent about it in your own beautifully unique way, but just don’t leave us.

The downvote I received was no sweat. Things have clearly snowballed though. Events I noticed last week leading to seeing all those other artists who are nowhere near as established as I am getting kicked to the curb like that is an impossible pill to swallow.

I've clearly explained on numerous occasions how the things we don't like benefit us all indirectly and their success should be celebrated. Of course the internal memo style Hive posts do not contribute much to that success. It took years to get folks on steem to stop doing that. You were there in the early days as well and saw the damage it did. Reliving this all over again is only bringing back bad memories. It took years for some to break down the barriers and now they're putting them right back up.

I am frustrated. I will not deny that and is to the point where it's probably best I take a couple days off. I don't want to be writing posts like these. It's not fun.

That's the first I've heard of this and it sucks. Hive desperately needs creative people and we cannot afford to drive them away. Likwid hurt their own profitability as the Hive price is less likely to improve sustainably. We need other whales to counter their actions if they give a shit.

I suspected something fishy was happening about a week ago, like I said. When you see that mass of downvotes all in one shot though, the motive becomes clear.

I think it's a waste of resources to be out countering abusive behavior. Those downvotes for that reason shouldn't be happening in the first place because YES, these creative/artist/entertainer types have potential. They draw eyes in naturally. It's been like that for thousands of years. How people literally invested in the entertainment industry don't understand this baffles me. How do you not know that?

All these crypto posts with their one or two comments... using my blog as an example... look at all the goddamn engagement over the years. Meesterboom, same thing. Now finally more folks are getting chance to break out onto the scene and it's being downvoted? Your friend in the other post, the funny guy, he gets it. Everyone in this industry gets it, except for some large investors? Durp?

LOL! Sorry bud. I'm ranting again.

I can get more comments than some crypto posts too and that has value to me. It's not all about the rewards, but they are a factor for most. We cannot easily stop trolls without compromising freedom, so ee need community action. Good to see his flags on your posts are being cancelled out. Must be frustrating for him.

You perform music. What is music without ears? I produce art. What is art without eyes? These things take hours to create. It's all there to entertain people. Not everyone will enjoy it, but it doesn't exist to offend anyone either. So what is the problem?

Again, the downvotes shouldn't be there in the first place. I didn't put a price point on that work or anything I do. That clown post I did the other day... I had no idea it would do so well. I was happy people enjoyed it. That's the only reason it did well. Now even that got downvoted. All because I pointed out this problem. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I've yet to do anything wrong here today. Other artists were asking what they did wrong. Nothing! They did nothing wrong. This is absurd.

Some people will flag vindictively even when they claim its curation. I can find plenty of posts that I consider overrewarded through voting rings or other cliques. He's not flagging them, but I will in some cases. If the actual community likes a post then who am I to question it?

The real problem is that he will put off new users and we cannot afford to lose them. We also cannot do a hardfork every time we find a malic account, although he was known for ages. The main thing is to keep the topic prominent and get people aware.

I downvote art frauds when I find them, plagiarism as well if I stumble into it. I leave everything else alone. I don't have enough intel when it comes to voting rings and the rest. Paid votes I'll downvote if I catch it. Basic abuse, I'll downvote, since that's what their for.

New and old users are being pushed. I push back. Not impressed though and it's going to take awhile for me to settle down. Just being honest here. He's killed Hive for me. I was super excited until this discovery. I don't have the patience for this. Too much bullshit over the years. Even if it wasn't hitting me directly, I was exposed to it. Didn't like what I saw. Always spoke my mind. Should have said more.

You have to be true to yourself and I admire you for putting yourself in the firing line. You have to wonder what would make him go away. People enjoy having some power, as we have seen from various Steemians. Sometimes it does not just seem to be about money. Steem is turning to real shit now, so there's no going back. I will persist with Hive. If we can manage to get enough good people active then his influence is reduced as he cannot hit them all.

Do not leave. This platform needs constructive criticism. Any real successful business owner knows that constructive criticism is a good thing, not a bad thing. You have the right to be here period.

I'm trying. I promise everyone here, I'm trying. I didn't need these other downvotes coming in sending me a message. A bully has no power over me but if the platform has no place left for me but down, then I've done all I can do here. I don't care about those downvotes, I'm trying to see if there's a future here. If there's no more room to move up then that's a no. I don't want to coast in neutral man.

I wonder why a post listing the top curators is worth $145, and is trending to boot!?

I don't know. It's an interesting internal memo. Nothing makes sense here anymore. After seeing successful arts and entertainment get smacked, so internal memos can be famous, I'm certain this place has its head screwed on, but it's backwards.

This is all very worrisome. I had hoped Hive would be a place where we didn't have to bother with fuckheads like @likwid. Why try to earn an income here if someone can just take it all away, for no reason?

Not allowed to be a successful artist here. If you do well, someone will come along to say you're doing too well. And that's ridiculous in this world. Say something, become a villain. That's also ridiculous. Not allowed to be a 'big name' here, but it's fine if a 'big name' shows up to collect, sell, and not even get comments on their posts. It's been like that though, since day one.

Youtube first made stars out of the people who embraced Youtube, then the big names showed up once they saw the money. By the looks of things, that'll never happen here. And to be clear, I don't give a fuck about what happened to me here with all these downvotes. I'm looking at everyone else and a long history. What can people work up to if getting there only means you get pushed back down? Sure, let it happen to me. What about everyone else? How do you start at the bottom and work your way up if there is no up? Where I am now, what if I want to go further? Can't? Not allowed? What's next?

Straight up, man. If I've done everything I can do, what's left for me? And what about everyone else?

The only solution I can see is for there to be such an overwhelming mass of successful artists here that fuckheads like @likwid can't push them all down.

I don't see something like that happening. Here we have famous internal memo writers. Artists are useless in their eyes. If you bring up any problems, you will be punished. This place is doomed...

Likwid's downvotes are artworks too.

What's a successful artist to you?

While I don’t agree with downvoting great stuff due to rewards and leaving shit stuff high cause it’s about hive.. likwid is used to curate everyday, I know because it trails me. Plus some of the comments here make no sense.. including the bitching that he left due to likwid downvotes but his posts were making $10 plus at the time of leaving and some even Gad upvotes from the account he’s bitching about.

So I really would love to see less “us vs them” and wish for a UI that made non hive content the front page and then an additional tab for that.. as hive content is appreciated and relevant to many, crypto content is quite popular on the internet.. we just need to organize this place better.

That's great if likwid is curating honestly due to honest curators being at the helm. It's unfortunate members here, including myself, are now being kicked to the curb.

As for Danday's comments, that's his business. I wasn't even around when he quit. He's a good guy. Maybe something frustrated him so he quit. People will do that. It happens often.

As you can see, I'm not into this whole red team vs blue team nonsense. I've also suggested numerous times all content is equally important but some simply doesn't mix well.

Still pissed off though. I've found out more bad news as well. A few will not speak here out of fear of retaliation. That bully is out of control and ruining this Hive experience for a lot of folks and they are not 'babies' or 'entitled brats'; good people.

I understand and seriously I’m really trying to help solve this whole content issue.. as it seems there is frustration about content but also entitlement imo.

Let’s take this for example - I post once every few weeks, maybe. When I do, my rewards are entirely too high for the content I produce, but instead is for my contributions behind the scenes (which I’m not paid for).. I understand this isn’t ideal and it’s not been ideal for years. When I do post, even if I happen to gather a ton of attention and engagement with my posts.. I’m told my rewards are unfair. I’m attacked and bitched at endlessly. But then on the other hand if their daily posting (which results to more than I make as I never post) gets a random flag.. they rage. They rage due to being used to a reward and someone changing it. They rage even if they got no engagement in the slightest. They feel entitled to those rewards.. due to their contributions in content.. but no one else’s contributions are valuable of course.. just their content no one reads.

This is difficult.. as it’s created an us vs them mentality, when there isn’t one. Most people getting votes for Hive stuff aren’t due to being an inner circle.. half are contributing.. and half are milking their autos and popularity. We need to fix this if content will ever be a reflection of what this place has to offer.. but some content creators need to realize some consumers actually want to read hive content and find it valuable, much more than that one paragraph post about a sandwich they wrote. But somehow due to the sheer insane focus on rewards, everyone is pissed off. I find this odd.. I mean when you go to twitter or YT, Instagram etc.. do you get mad that someone else’s content has more likes and comments than yours? Do you rage? No.. as they clearly just attracted a crowd more and are entertaining people. So why is it different here? Oh right, money. Money ruins anything social imo, and it’s why I lost faith in this place .. as most aren’t here to be social, or to read content .. they are here to grab as much money as humanly possible with as little effort as possible. There is nothing social about that.. and it’s why I think the place is no fun.

Of course that’s not all people here, but it’s a bad learned behavior.

What I would love to see, is a UI that allows individuals to actually enjoy the experience... there should be a place for both long and short content. There should be social shit that is memes and just fun that attracts a crowd, there should be long magazine quality content, there should be art, music, and all sorts of shit, and it should be showcased (and rewarded) in a way that brings value to the ecosystem (and therefore anyone holding HIVE). There should be places for people to write about their day in a quick manner, even if no one else cares to read it.. but some people need to realize that they aren’t entitled to rewards.. and perhaps less of a focus on rewards on a UI front will help with that.. as it won’t be in everyone’s face so much.

We need to make this place fun, we need to make this place reward good content and showcase it, we need it make this place easy to find content we like and not all be thrown into a large pot where we just compete and attack each other over rewards.

I’m sorry you are getting downvoted, I don’t think it’s needed. But I also know that same account has given you votes over this time as I am the one who cast them, and that account followed. I don’t know why it’s downvoting the way it is... perhaps he thinks the content is over rewarded and likes hive content .. at some point we need to be ok with that. And I know that sounds like shit, but can’t he decide how he uses his stake just like everyone else? Then others who vote can counter it.. or yell at him behind the scenes 🙂

I just find it unfortunate that you are stating you are throwing in the towel for this, no matter how shitty it is.

We need to handle content better and display it better, some are working on this.. but we also need to change our mindset about rewards as a whole imo. The first Is much easier than the second.

I just find it unfortunate that you are stating you are throwing in the towel for this, no matter how shitty it is.

Been doing this for years. Worked hard. Watching people get bullied. Not cool. I have no problem with honest curation. Never did. I don't like who I'm becoming. Obviously something went wrong. People can assume it was a few downvotes. I insist there's more to life than this drama. All I want to do is do my thing in peace and some days try to make people smile, for fuck sakes. I haven't been doing that lately. It's my fault. That's all. Been a long day.

Wow man! There you go hitting your head on the nail again:) But seriously, some great observations...And, some much needed topics to address. I think that one of the goals of HIVE (and any other Blockchain platforms with a social media twist) should be to have a seamless transition...One, where the user posts/comments/upvotes based on their interests...But, doesn't primarily focus on a coin/speculation so much...And two, where all crypto based content is located within a specific section. One, maybe two on the trending page is fine...Crypto does have an audience...But, It's not bigger than everything else! (movies, sports, animation, fashion, performance art, etc...The thing that will make HIVE mainstream, is to showcase what other centralized platforms have been/are doing...Just adding the rewards/token mechanism underneath of it all. I'm NOT saying that HIVE should be centralized at all! (We already know how that movie ends, don't we?) lol...It's the appeal...I'm talking about the appeal of say a YouTube...IG...Facebook is more along the lines of what we need to see...Variety! “Variety is the very spice of life, That gives it all its flavor.” I think Mr. William Cowper said it right. The user should not even be so much aware of HIVE based content, as they should be painting a picture...Listening to a musician...Or cooking...Or, whatever you're into...Creativity First! Great post Bro...Even better awareness:)

Of course the main trending page, naturally, should consist of a wide variety. Unfortunately that one I mentioned is doing what he's doing, plus a few others pounce on anything Hive or crypto related with upvotes, voting blind in some cases, chasing curation rewards in others.

I watched this happen on Steem. You were there as well. We already know where this leads and I find it shocking people would insist on making some of the same mistakes again. Downvoting the arts, entertainment, etc is taking that previous disaster to a whole new level though and I can't believe someone could be so careless, yet there it is.

Crypto deserves a share of the attention market, just like everyone else. Start forcing things on people and they begin to hate it. Common sense for fucks sakes, yet here we are.

Of course variety is important. If every channel on television had the same shows, would it have been as successful as it was for many decades? Of course not... yet here we are, watching someone fuck it up, because they have no clue what they're doing.

I agree that is not fair, or productive...And to be honest, when that happens, it discourages the creative minds...I'm definitely not thin skinned, but every man/woman has a breaking point...Yep, I definitely remember what it was like over on Steem! (I carry the scars in my name:) It almost makes a content creator think about just posting crypto related content...And I can be honest and say that I've even thought about just doing that as well just to get more eye balls...BUT, that's not the gifts that we were born with Brother...I really hope that HIVE has learned from the mistakes of the past...Hopefully so they will NOT repeat them!

Before Hive was even a thing, I wasn't too excited about forking away. One of the people who had supported me in the early days and just so happens to be involved in making Hive happen told me directly, "I hope we see you on Hive. You're one of the most creative people we have."

So I came here and started to have fun. Now that fun factor has been literally destroyed. If I do good, I'll be punished for it, just like anyone else like me. That's not being dramatic, that's exactly what happened.

when that happens, it discourages the creative minds

No kidding. And I don't have a thin skin either. Before all this I'm pretty sure that individual was selling votes, contributing to making it impossible to grow organically. Now this. One thing after another. If they really want a shitcoin with no use case, they can bloody well have it.

A rather fitting song. Idiot would downvote Metallica though, because it's not a hive post. Why would we want to attract artists here? They only sell out stadiums...

In case you don't know (which I doubt btw) ...

69973932_2429318973826232_4951290903588241408_n.jpg

That asshole is oblivious to the fact it's an asshole.

Stop making so much sense!

Okay some macaroni in the sauce feels good!

Great read. I had noticed this trend already, but hadn't had time (or, honestly, interest) to do any research on it. Thank you.

Witnessing the start of the death spiral. What happens next is fewer quality publishers will have a reason to do a good job, leading to less effort. Fewer curators will vote for things like art, photos, and general content, since their rewards will be wiped away. Then people become desperate and start blogging about hive and crypto, saturaing the market further, making it harder for people succeed and far less appealing to a general audience which leads to fewer potential new members wanting to get involved.

My conspiracy radar believes that these harmful whales are employees at Twitter, YouTube and Facebook. It will always be a problem with any unregulated service that people with means will try to harm it, either to sabotage competition or just out of sheer bored human malice.

It seems that you are right.

I was thinking that maybe if there are more people who will invest in HP, post a lot of good articles about arts and entertainment, and upvote each other (according to one's own preferences), then people like likwid might not be able to downvote them all. However, maybe those conspirators would just invest more from their billions of funds just to attain their goals against Hive.

sad to read this because when you think it all the way through it means that hive will fail. It won't reach critical mass with downvoting content. I hope for the best but it doesn't bode well for the platform

That's kinda what I'm seeing. Downvotes are great to combat abuse but when it comes to art and entertainment, we've done all we can do, apparently. So I guess that's that? ... wtf.

I hate to be a fatalist but people aren't thinking this through and are acting against their own economic interest. Facebook, Instagram, twitter and Pinterest have spent a decade training people how to create, consume and broadcast content and we are here fighting against it. Shit content is king. That is the reality. If you are a photographer then your eventual network will support you and others will just scroll by. No need to downvote content.

Downvotes are a tool to help combat abuse. Art and photography is abusive here, apparently. Internal memos make people famous here. I'm shocked at what I'm seeing and I've been punished for pointing it out.

And it will get worse I am sorry to inform you, I have seen it I have not said anything yet but you know it is hive, it is an infrastructure mounted on a powder keg for a round table which is going to explode sooner than later, you know why it is full of enemies, if enemies who joined in a round table against a common enemy named Justin Sun, and here you are seeing if little by little those differences began to emerge, little by little this is only the tip of the iceberg, you will already Account that this I repeat is a structure designed in a powder keg about to explode, sooner than later, remember is like the son of someone who brings all the good and bad genetics, and that bad has not yet exploded, but He will do it so give him hand do not go, then you are earning a lot compared to the normal ones if you look we are some say active 5000 users of those maybe 50 are milked in bulk the rest we are quite well without complaining that is to say we get good profit, but 90% do not get what they deserve, as you are saying, and again how sorry I am for your loss but do not leave there are many who support you and will continue to do so so I encourage you not to hold on.See you soon.

I've been thinking for a long time, steady, for many hours straight. Trying to find that reason to keep doing this. I don't want to let anyone down. The people here for the most part are great. No problems there. I can't do what I want to do if my head isn't in the right place and I need to able to see a future. Wanting to work up, not down.

You know I'm listening by now. Your getting so deep into my ears that it's like a buzzing sound that begins to drone and reverberate through my soul.

Are you sure it's not that 5G stuff many are afraid of?

Terence recommended taking 5G on an empty stomach in silent darkness. I can only assume that's the 5G your taking about. Better not do it if you're afraid. I'm a law-abiding citizen tho.

That's getting close to being a hero dose. I've been to that place. Start small.

I had no clue that likwid was voting at all, let alone downvoting good content. Gotta admit I’d been using their liquefying service for milking at the other site, but I need to stop doing so.

How much profit was likwid skimming off your backs?

It used to be 1.5% but I think recently went up to 5%

Seemed like a good idea at the time, as opposed to earning SP that I’d have to power down to be able to buy Hive.

Live and learn.

If that account becomes a benefactor when the service is used, I'm certain I just found a case where they downvoted an art post awhile back that used that service. Somebody's trying pretty damn hard to win the Darwin Award.

Somebody's trying pretty damn hard to win the Darwin Award.

There’s stiff competition for those. You’ve really got to stand out.

Gotta make a splash! ...Especially when you don't know how to swim.

I noticed the downvote of that guy to your post but didn't know that has been doing that in all the posts related with art. This place as steemit, has a lot of problems yet (well in steemit is a lot worse). I'm very drastical when it comes to this kind of shitty behaviour. Imo HIVE should have methods to avoid these practices because if we haven't such methods then the spammers, scammers, bad actors and JS friends will boycott this place.

And I give a shit if someone says "hey and our freedom of speech?". The freedom of speech isn't a right to piss in others houses without consecuences. I see everyday that asshole of bountyking spamming all the "new" trend and we're doing nearly nothing except downvoting him, that has to stop. For god sake nobody had the idea to put a trend of spammers and sending all that spam to that place?. Then you donwvote their shit if you want that way we have "new" clean of assholes.

We need more drastic tools agains those who want to destroy HIVE. Seriously, whales should be thinking about this aspect, because if not we're going to fail the same way steemit did.

Nothing can be done. People just leave. It you were a witness, would you be here right now talking to me or would you be worried about losing a big witness vote if you did? Those people are cornered.

Super pro Hive posters won't touch this because they might lose support if they did.

Crypto crowd won't touch this for the same reasons, and many of them are used to not having comments under their posts anyway so why would they care if fewer consumers were around when really, they just post for more crypto. They're all cornered. Can't and won't do shit, and for the most part don't care either.

I could be wrong but that's the vibe I get. They're not getting downvoted so why would they care, plus the competition is being forced out.

Then we're doomed if the target is keep winning rewards instead of making a better place for potential users. If I were a whale I would try to stop this. Because my target isn't win some crypto and leave this place to the ones who want destroy it.

And yes, they probably would loose some support but the reward is much higher if we manage to succeed with HIVE as a good rewarding social media for ALL not just for a few. For me that pow that you pointed isn't very clever. Egoist yes but has no future vision, is very short sighted and I thought that we had some really clever people here. Not just comformist that want their money now, what you said is very dissapointing but I'm almost sure that you're right because you know them much better than I.

Plenty of folks do actually care but I still think many will remain quiet. Looking long was my plan but it was with Steem as well and many shortsighted types ran the show. It's hard for me to think that'll change here, especially now, and I don't have the patience to hope like I once had.

All I can do is point these problems out. It's up to many more to take it to the next level. While everyone waits, the problem will get worse and more will leave. This will be the third time I've said it here in the comments but this problem is the start of a death spiral. Seen it happen before under different circumstances and even some of the same. It's quite common for people around here to fuck things up for everyone else.

Great post. Very informative and spot on in my book. If it continues hive will push users right out the door.

As I stated in another response here, we're witnessing the start of a death spiral.

About 3 weeks ago, I noticed that this @likwid user downvotes posts, and got negative reactions. I thought that @likwid is just downvoting posts of users who do not use their downvoting power. I just knew right after reading this post that @likwid is targeting some categories of posts, especially arts and entertainment.

If anyone would see me in hiveblocks.com/@anonymouser, they would see that I try to downvote @likwid's posts and comments as much as my downvoting power and my personal time allows.

I'm not interested in the retaliation stuff, though it's tempting.

Oo

LOL! That's a quality comment right there.

Still, that's something that @likwid does not deserve to downvote. :D

Yes, I was wondering too... that is why I wrote the 'comment' xE

I had a feeling you were bugging. LOL!

Master 👏

I noticed when Rain came in upset that they got downvoted. Initially gave the usual advice of don't take it personal, some people are just jerks "disagree with rewards" for whatever reason. And then went and checked the downvote pattern and wow. Totally professional service. 100% would not recommend.

I'm not sure if I actually physically can but I think I'm going to try to up production out of sheer spite.

I know bad things stick in your mind more than good things but seriously, 291 up vs 2 down at the time I'm banging this thing out. How is that no longer welcome?

Won't stop you if you need to do it for mental health (actually can't even stop you but that's completely beside the point XD) but obviously would very much prefer it if you didn't (at least not permanently because I know you love your occasionally long breaks).

Hey. I missed your comment here somehow.

I've cooled down some. Of course everyone can see I get instant auto downvoted now. So basically, a few days later, this situation I'm in now means, if there's ever a problem... well. Yeah. Good luck. I realize folks have my back and I truly do want to stick around. What about the next massive downvote rampage though? And if someone speaks up, then what? There's nothing professional this at the moment. Bring people here and set them up to be pushed around? Not cool. Should probably do something about that.

Whatever though. Fuck it.

Don't stress, you get a lot of comments XD

We are Legion :)