A celebrity appearance and thoughts on engagement

in #thoughts4 years ago

Today is a furlough day, which means I am not getting paid to work, but work I am doing gets paid --- hmmm. Well, I am not working that hard, so I have some time to look at a few other things of interest - for example Hive onboarded its first true celebrity who has already been making moves in the market place with his as expected unusual introduction post.

Hi, I'm Batman

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While he had to dump to complete the ear, Bruce and Wayne Enterprises should soon be pumping the markets up and since he is pretty fond of creating gadgets, he is hopefully looking to create some nifty Dapps. Unfortunately, his first app attempt, "Grapplr" was mistaken for a dating app and overrun by people who are "too handsy" at staff Christmas parties.

The underrepresented majority

That aside, @abh12345 released some numbers looking at vote weight distribution - where the vote value lands - and for him (and me), a lot of the total value falls in the dolphin and orca range.

This is mine as of a little while ago

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"How terrible! You should be voting small accounts! Minnows are people too!"

Maybe......

However, upon request and a reference letter from Batman, Asher gave me another set of number.

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These are my comment votes.

There are approximately 10x the number of active Orcas than Whales, 5x the number of active Dolphins than Orcas, 3x the number of active Minnows than Dolphins, and 5x the number of active Red Fish (and lower) than Minnows. - Stolen from Asher

I can't speak for the whole network, but stealing from my own comment to Asher,

As you can see, the vote weight is pretty much distributed evenly no matter the class (as I don't check or care), but there is something more interesting in that. I vote a lot of comments and pretty much most of the ones I get (within reason) however, where are the redfish and minnows?

There are 3x more minnows than dolphins, but they don't appear to be commenting much on my posts at least - and I vote on comments.... At least for me, the most active groups for comments considering the distribution, are the dolphins and orcas. Dolphins seem to be the most active engagers, and minnows are very unimpressive considering their numbers.

I think that this last part is important.

Is it possible that the engagement is a part of the reason that the dolphins are dolphins at all? They have taken an interest, made a home, create content and build a network.

Engagement builds network

Engagement matters for several reasons and one of the major might be, Out of sight, out of mind. Which perhaps could translate in the future to be - Out of mind, out of site. Retention seems more correlated to engagement, than earnings. Not many can be retained by the current levels earned, but there are plenty here because they enjoy the discussion regardless.

Attention is a limited resource and while everyone seems to expect to be found, "getting found" is generally less up to chance and more up to whether one wants to be found. If you put out content expecting an algorithm to push it into eyeline, you are shit out of luck. But even if it did, your content would be competing for algorithm attention in the same way it competes for organic eyes to view it, except that you wouldn't be able to do much personally to affect the outcomes.

Engagement is personal.

When people comment on my posts I see them, I read them, I vote them, I might even give a follow if the comments are consistently good. One comment is rarely good enough to warrant a follow unless the account looks interesting in other ways, something I might want to keep an eye on. This depends on my interests, not yours.

I would predict that a lot of the dolphins are dolphins because they have started from zero and then got involved with the community, started commenting, creating and building a network. I would also predict that a lot of the dolphins and orcas I have supported, are the ones who have worked for the community as well as bought into the token over time. To buy-in, one first has to have at least some belief that there is future value and that belief is generally built upon experience on the platform, through interaction with people who are on the platform creating and commenting.

Hive has a working economy and the Hive token is one of the goods that can be bought, but people only buy it because they see it as something that will appreciate in value in the future. Once they buy it, they can then use it in various ways to add to that potential for appreciation, which many do - by supporting people who they believe are adding value to the community - people like Abh12345 with the reports, Meesterboom for the dark humor, my brother Galenkp for his life views or Nonameslefttouse, for what is one of the sharpest observing perspectives on and of the platform and life, even though he doesn't like to write about the platform. There is a reason that they get support and you will find that in general, they don't mind adding the odd comment to the blockchain, they engage.

And they've been doing it for years.

Thick and thin, up and down, through bidbots, curves and clusterfuck forks - they have been here participating in the community, getting involved, adding their voice as well as - drawing and maintaining attention. Yeah, they get some votes, but you won't see them resting on their laurels and autovotes. They are consistently producing and as a result, generating value through the type of content and engagement that keeps people here because it is fun, interesting, unique and valuable to humans.

Engagement is engaging.

Engagement matters in this world even more now as so many are connection starved, disconnected from real communities and instead searching for a digital home. Where many of the other platform provide a space for polarized argument discussion, Hive incorporates the sense of community and friendship, which is also why those who participate in the discussions are more likely going to attract the support of consumers.

I am a creator on Hive, I am also a consumer of Hive content - and if I don't see you, how do I know where to find you? I am guessing the same way I was found when I started and for a very long time - and it wasn't in Trending. Through comments and producing content that when seen, generated some interest, some discussion and I added comments to that too. Thousands upon thousands of comments.

Between Abh1234, Meesterboom, Nonameslefttouse, Galenkp and myself, there are ~176,000 authored posts and comments. How much discussion and engagement do you think it has generated? What value has it held for the community that is here? How many people stayed a little longer or bought a little more, because one of those names above encouraged engagement and helped someone feel at home in a community of strangers?

I don't know, I will have to leave that one for Asher to answer.

Waiting, waiting, waiting

Asher came through:

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That is just over 200,000 replies spread between 5 accounts and while I am sure there are some "Nice post" comments in that mix, I am quite confident the depth of commentary is pretty good compared to the average on the platform. Does it matter? Well, while not everyone is going to find interest or value in everything that is produced, the economy on Hive benefits from diversity of content and levels of real engagement as it supports people.

Transactions can be automated, but they don't build a community.

Perhaps Batman can help.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Now those are some interesting stats. I also usually vote on all my replies and my first instinct was to say that plenty of them are minnows or smaller, but now I think about it, many more are probably dolphins. I also don't vote on comments that are very brief and just seem to be for the sake of commenting and I think they tend to come from redfish and minnows.

Votes or not, I do enjoy commenting on posts where I know the athlete is likely to respond and everyone you've mentioned does just that, including yourself. Now I'm trying to wrack my beatings to come up with others who always respond...@artemislives, @riverflows, @joshman... all do a lot for community too, just like you mentioned...Suddenly I remember an account on Steem which started downvoting my every post after I reached dolphin and mentioned that it was when I actually started getting involved in the communities that things really picked up for me to reach that goal.

but now I think about it, many more are probably dolphins.

You have been around the blockchain a while too, so you build a following and that following is constantly growing alongside. It is quite natural.

I also don't vote on comments that are very brief and just seem to be for the sake of commenting and I think they tend to come from redfish and minnows.

Yep - "engaging"

Engage, reply, make friends. Is it so hard? :)

The larger an account gets, the more negative it will attract also - it is part of human nature I think - jealousy perhaps? I also think that when large enough, people assume that you are more capable to accept it as part of the experience.

The irony with the downvoting account was that they complained that it was easier to reach dolphin when you have the TSU account voting for you and my precise point was that until I put myself out there to interact with the communities I wasn't getting that level of support. I was attempting to enlighten people. 🤣 Response: be grumpy about it instead of trying to help yourself. Sigh...

I vote on most comments, even if it's sometimes DAYS later. 🤣 Like @tarazkp I don't suffer from "no comments" and I really believe just being a decent human being makes all the difference. Someone bothers to comment? The LEAST you can do is an emoji and a 10% upvote. I find it grows my followers the fastest, and then they SEE the engagement on my posts. Hoping that leading by example really makes an impact.

What I'm truly stunned about it how few people go back to the mentions and comments after 24 hours. My @artemisshares curation account shares - and gives a post beneficiary - to about 3-4 people almost every day. This last week, not one of them has noticed, responded, engaged or thanked. Truly astounding.

I know what you mean. I used to try and go back to check all the comments left on inclusions in the newsletter, but gave up eventually, because unless they tagged me, they generally didn't respond...Which reminds me, I think I got interrupted part way through a reply on the curation post you shared one of mine in and can't remember whether I got back to that. 😳 How embarrassed do I feel now... Excuse me while I go check.

engage.hivechain.app it's great and free. Systematic. You're wlecome. ❤️

Is it possible that the engagement is a part of the reason that the dolphins are dolphins at all? They have taken an interest, made a home, create content and build a network.

I can't speak for anyone else, but it is certainly the reason I am a dolphin.

I've put some skin in the game, both money and energy. I came to steem from the world of SEO and ROI-and lots of other bullshit. I just wanted a place to 'hang my hat', write and read. I really wish to be valued for what I do, not who I am or know. Hive allows that of me.

Those are seriously impressive stats, from an equally impressive group. Thank you.

I was fortunate enough to work with Meesterboom a bit. Enough to share that he is as engaging 'off the page as on.'

Thanks for all you do around here and for stating clearly how to succeed on Hive. I think it can never be said enough.

Hey Big T!

I think you are absolutely correct in this. When yo come here to be a part of things and not just to rip what you can and run it tells, it tells on the people you engage with and it tells on the people who see your stuff.

Nice to see you again!

!ENGAGE 30

I can't speak for anyone else, but it is certainly the reason I am a dolphin.

I once said "I will never have more than 10k - if that" - The more I participated, the more I wanted to be here and it encouraged me to put in. Skin in the game makes a difference. The value is one thing, but I am still yet to actually spend any of it - it just seems to help make stronger ties. Some people don't like this because of the risk, but being part of any community is risky, it is also risk mitigating.

Enough to share that he is as engaging 'off the page as on.'

He sends you "Nude Scot" pictures too? ;)

Is that what those are? Thanks for solving that mystery 😂

I'm an unimpressive red-fish that's been a red-fish for soon three candles now. That is but a fact, not a complaint by any means. :)

As an introvert, I get easily overwhelmed with the kind of socializing and keeping up with everything this kind of ecosystem requires in order to thrive. Also, just a fact.

And not that I didn't try, I did get swept up in the Writers Block community back in the day, even nearly jeopardizing my 9-to-5 by struggling to live up to my own expectations and commitments with a split focus.

Now I've learned to take it easier on myself, minding my own tiny, cute, little red-fish business to the best of my energy-levels and abilities at any given space-time.

I can only admire how effortlessly you and others here cook extensive sheats of mind-expanding content - two, three times a day.. and I can't even manage to READ all of that, let alone cook equivalently eloquent, relevant, and lengthy comments to respond.

But is the fact that I am not by design "built" to thrive in this ecosystem going to drive me away? Nop, sooner or later I always come back, because of creativity and because some of the good ones also always keep returning back.


Hugs and Coffee,
~Josie~


I wonder how many people who use YouTube have commented or uploaded a video? I am guessing it is the minority.

I actually think from a creative standpoint, Hive is pretty good for introverts as one can keep some decent privacy until ready, which means perhaps putting on the mask of an extrovert. I always find the introvert/ extrovert discussion interesting though, as people assume I am extroverted, but I don't actually think so.

And not that I didn't try, I did get swept up in the Writers Block community back in the day, even nearly jeopardizing my 9-to-5 by struggling to live up to my own expectations and commitments with a split focus.

Don't jeopardize a real job for this :D - Well, unless you are good at coping with pressure and risk.

I can only admire how effortlessly you and others here cook extensive sheats of mind-expanding content - two, three times a day.. and I can't even manage to READ all of that, let alone cook equivalently eloquent, relevant, and lengthy comments to respond.

I never thought I could or would - but the more I create, the more creative I become. Add in the engagement and it is a feedback loop that keeps turning. I think everyone would benefit from writing thoughts more, even if no one ever sees it.

Do you ever wonder if any of us are built for the world we have created? Sure, some do better than others for periods of time, but we all fail in some aspects.

Glad you stopped by, despite your introversion :)

Nah, youtube is purely for consumption! xD
But there is a slight difference though, youtube counts also views. Here, I doubt anyone even ever reads my posts, well, maybe @m31, if she gets curious as to which blackhole have I disappeared in again. And even if people do read, how would I know? There used to be the little eye thingy way back in the day, so you could see the difference between viewing and voting - it did give an eerie feeling though whenever you saw many reads but no upvotes, and vice versa all the curation and bot upvotes, but no reads. A reality-check either way. :D

@m31 is a stalker. ;D

There used to be the little eye thingy way back in the day, so you could see the difference between viewing and voting

It was taken out of the UI as it was so poor at tracking the views and was easily gamed, just like YouTube - don't believe the hype! :D

xD I know, she's learned from the best! We used to do quite some stalking together back when the grass was greener. xD Ah, good times! ^^

As for introverts/extroverts, the only determinant is how you recharge/regain your energy - either by engaging with people (as we can see all of them poor extrovert struggling in these social distancing times), or by being alone (as we can see all those introverts secretly or not so secretly wishing the lockdown would be the norm).
..and then there are the ambiverts these days now, as well.. go figure. xD

I am "vert fluid" :D

Recovery time is an important factor and I think this is where I have improved, as I can recover from people faster than I once could.

I for one find that for me it depends on the level of emotional investment required of me. I used to be a cabin-crew. One would say - not the right kind of profession for an introvert - to see approx.1000 people each day - yet it wasn't a problem. The same as it's not a problem to unconditionally love the whole of humanity form the security of a cave in the mountains. xD

But and when you have to get down in the trenches of everyday emotional existence of so many different individualized beings and energies.. that's when it gets tricky.

< I am "vert fluid" :D

The same as it's not a problem to unconditionally love the whole of humanity form the security of a cave in the mountains. xD

Oh yeah, it's been a hard road to Dolphin status, but it really didn't matter to me.
That's why I never put out one of those "Congrats, you are now a Dolphin" posts.

Being lumbered with the charity name didn't help much either for some reasons that I will not go into here, but I chose to walk the road and I always knew that hard work will get us where we need to be.

You guys have a great group sharpening each other and it is amazing what you have achieved thus far and will continue to do.
This can only mean good things for Hive and this is what it all should be about. Congrats to each of you and thank you for your kind support to our charity.

Oh yeah, it's been a hard road to Dolphin status, but it really didn't matter to me.

It is a time consuming undertaking. I think I was lucky that I didn't have much of a head for these things when I started - otherwise I might not have made it :)

Charities are going to suffer for some time to come, but hopefully it will get easier if prices increase. One of the problems with the charities is that it is hard for people to really know what is legit or not, so many err on the side of economic caution.

I didn't have much of a head for these things when I started
Well you certainly had much more of a head, as I had none lol.

You don't think that we know that suffering inside out since 2001.
The legit was a struggle during our early years, but in time we became more accepted as the genuine thing.
Same problem with us now on Hive and it.s almost like starting all over again. But this time round we have a few friends that know us well and one by one they will sign up at the Combination account as endorsers.
We have 5 so far and we will do the list with the first run.
Hope that we will also see your name on there as it is genuine!

@terazkp For me as a newbie here was so interesting to reas this post. Every single day I’m getting more and more knowledge about this community, about HIVE and I want to join and grow up asap. I’m starting to believe in the successful future of Hive more than I believe in myself. 🤘

This is much like a startup venture as a whole, but also as individuals - it can be a wild ride up and down, but I believe participation is valuable.

Absolutely! I’m 100% agree with you thoughs. Have a blessed day 🙏

Engagement is the real hard work on this platform that really pays off. I have to commit myself to commenting more than I create posts for visibility and support for my content from authors.

Thanks so much for being an inspiration to me. I have all along been thinking of making a daily target of 30 comments on the different content created by the various hivers.

Engament surelly brings about retention of users on the platform and in the end drives the value of the hive token.

thanks so much for sharing.

Have you joined up at the Engagement League? Check @abh12345 for details and comment on the post for inclusion.

There is much in your post that - hopefully - would catch someone's attention; here's just one sentence that caught mine:

Engagement is personal.

Sincerity comes through when one engages with others, as does insincerity.

Taking the time to truly read (not skim) what another has taken the time to write; taking the time to ponder over a person's work, to appreciate more fully whatever humor or poignancy or nuance or depth it offers; taking the time to craft a thoughtful response (not dash off a superficial note): these are marks of giving of oneself, as much as the writing or photographs or drawings or paintings or music or videos are the manifestations of the creative's giving of himself/herself/themself.

It's possible to fake sincere engagement for a while, in an attempt to gain some external rewards, but that's an awful lot of effort, over an awfully long time, for it to "pay off," and I daresay that problem takes care of itself.

To truly and personally engage is to give of one's time, a most valuable and fleeting asset. Whom we choose to engage with, and the care with which we do so, are reflections of what we consider important. That kind of engagement is its own reward.

Oh yeah, it's been a hard road to Dolphin status, but it really didn't matter to me.

This is a vital factor in my opinion too - sincerity and authenticity. There are plenty who engage for the reward, others who do it to troll - at the end of the day, it is those who are decent humans that do the best.

It's possible to fake sincere engagement for a while, in an attempt to gain some external rewards, but that's an awful lot of effort, over an awfully long time, for it to "pay off," and I daresay that problem takes care of itself.

Just like in a relationship started on fake interests and promises, eventually, everyone leaks. If you have to hide yourself behind a mask of sincerity, what leaks out? :D

To truly and personally engage is to give of one's time, a most valuable and fleeting asset.

I agree. I give people a lot of my time, I give a few people none of it - after having too much wasted and taken for granted.

Thanks for taking your time :)

I agree. Engagement is the key to building a network of followers and supporters who may or may not vote on your post but also to genuinely appreciate. It's not only here and in social media, but in the real world as well. It has been like that for generations. We call it networking.

It has been like that for generations. We call it networking.

I am not sure how many people have actually lived in the real world these days :) I don't know how many have ever had to truly network - many just swipe left or right, or sit at a keyboard alone.

Sad but true. Ŕeal world networking had been replaced by online social networking, which isn't exactly the same. It lacks that human feel and raw emotion that you can really see and hear, and touch.

The Batman graph XD

The lack of redfish commenting could be a rc issue. I've had to previously bump a few of my little bees (and will likewise adopt other little bees I stumble over that look like they're making a good go of things) so they could engage and post more because they wanted to comment more but kept running out of rc way too quickly.

The Batman graph XD

I thought it was funny at least :)

The lack of redfish commenting could be a rc issue.

I don't think that is much of a problem these days, but unsure. Redfish are all the way up to 500 HP or thereabouts, so there should at least be a few more commenting.

I haven't been keeping on top of it so it could be better now (I certainly hope so). All I know is some time back we got some new artists on the artbees discord and they said they were struggling because they couldn't make long posts or ocmments because one long post or comment completely drained their rc and they'd have to wait forever for it to recover so they could make another comment. It seems to be a mission to get up to 100hp (which is when it's definitely not a problem).

I am here to agree with the shared data of your consistency and the engagement on your comment section. Though we started talking even before I found out that you will one of the reasons that I would stay on the chain for good. Before I followed you here.

With your consistency and sound opinions, you have managed to act as a guide through Steem's turbulence to moving to hive. I owe your engagement that ♡

Though we started talking even before I found out that you will one of the reasons that I would stay on the chain for good.

Ah, those were the days! :)

I have always told you, don't blame me for your results, good or bad :)

I am glad you are here.

I have always told you, don't blame me for your results, good or bad :)

I think most of the ones I have had since I started 'listening' to you have served me well. I am glad I stayed.

Reading this realized I'm another Minnow guilty of the lack of engagement. Since it takes me a while to write an article, when I do I get too drained to see what other people wrote and engage with them. At least I reply all my commentors when they do comment.

I'm trying to fix that, like today I decided to not write a post and focus instead on reading other people articles and write my thoughts.

I am a creator on Hive, I am also a consumer of Hive content

I'll try my hardest to be able to say that! ^

You might find that if you read more, the creation part gets easier - at least from the ideas perspective. There are some great contributors here, give them a shout in a comment and help them stay engaged too :)

Hmmmm... very long post. My father would say if you want to be rich learn from the rich.
I took my time to actually read this post because you dont get to read this type of post everytime.

Is it possible that the engagement is a part of the reason that the dolphins are dolphins at all? They have taken an interest, made a home, create content and build a network.

This was my new approach to hive. And that's why i have become more of a commenter. And i must say some people have gone ahead to follow me after engaging with them on their post. As a matter of fact, i joined the engagement league by @abh12345 for this singular reason.
Thank you for this tip.

If you don't read people's posts, it is unlikely you are going to create what they might enjoy. At the end of the day, we all do as we do and get the results we get. We can influence the outcomes though.

we all do as we do and get the results we get. We can influence the outcomes though.

Very true. The effort we make yields the result we see..

Batman the Bear.

I do need to find out just how much each class is engaging. I'm not sure what state we are in if 200 Orca's are engaging more than 3600 Minnows.

That would be a truly bad thing

Yep, it will be telling for sure. At the end of the day, people have to take responsibility for themselves too. Many are waiting for someone larger to notice them and take them under their wing. In my experience, that doesn't work so often.

I wonder if that number would be double if I actually worked more than half the time I've been here.

Likely. And what's missing is the amount of text in the replies to us (and the difficult to measure 'quality' of reply).

I don't need numbers to be able to tell you the quality has been superb. Majority of my content wasn't designed to receive essay-like responses either. A lot of folks came to just joke around, being casual. Shared a lot of one liners with people back and forth. Even the short stuff is good stuff. Of course I'm not talking about "nice post", but that's actually quite rare.

Yes I do tend to read your comment threads more than on most posts as there can be a fair few chuckles to be had :)

Yep, I concur. The general quality of response has been great the entire time I have been here. During the highs there were plenty of automated and low quality comments, but a few DVs cleared that out, as did price dropping and Resource credits. I have been really impressed by the general quality of engagement, but I think this might depend on where one spends time.

I'd say so for sure. You get more replies than most even when you aren't here for 5 months :D

B7D2F6FBC3324B13A14818E0A7BF7180.jpeg

:D

Sounds like one of the people I onboarded a few years ago - at least they bought a lot. Didn't last long though, no real engagement.

Haha! This one is good!

it would be interesting to see how much are minnows and smaller generally active (how much they post). most of the dolphins "worked hard" to get there, so they are pretty into the platform and people on it, so more comments.

Yep. I have a number monkey working on it. :D

I wonder if it is a chicken or the egg issue.

🙈

could be.

i find that communities could be the key for more retention. active but engaging community (especially specific one) could be the key to new accounts retention.
Saying that, i am guilty of not using communities enough.

Saying that, i am guilty of not using communities enough.

Aren't we all. I wonder if it is like a new employee thing though, they can learn the new processes as they don't know the old.

yes, creatures of habits and a bit of laziness. if you started with using communities you will probably use it more than if you started with feeds.
we just need active specific communities. Someone needs to make some :D

Communities have clear benefits, because the people you want to see your work, and people whose work you're probably interesting in, are more likely to gravitate toward communities you're in.

But I have to say, I expect I'll see enjoyable serendipitous discovery in communities I'd normally not be a part of, and in general feeds or just browsing around.

Popping into various communities might help prevent one from stagnating in echo-chamber bubbles, too.

Someone needs to make some

I hope someone does :D

we just need active specific communities. Someone needs to make some :D

I see you both are not much into music stuff. But since I am, I'll pitch you a new cool Community that in my view could generate some great inspiration and your desire to share your wildest -Q- youngster's adventures in there too. :D

Cor blimey, those are some top notch stats!! What a group to be in!

Pretty massive, eh?

I wonder what percentage as a whole it would be, lol!

50 or 60% - by my math ;D

Considering that all accounts are content creator and community accounts (even Asher) it is a very high amount I assume in comparison to the average. Not ever drama makers :D

Hehe, the drama makers will make drama out of it. If no, they won't because there's not enough drama in it for them!

Moar drama!

I liked the batman chart! very clever to who ever did it. I started as a know nothing redfish, I am almost at the Dolphin stage and will be shortly. I hope people will start to learn that comments and engagement are the way to go. I am pretty much on my way to Dolphin by being a consumer. Yeah I make post, I share things, but my post are just that, post, not a blog, not real meaningful content, not thought provoking.

Hive can be many things to many different and diverse people, but if an individual is here for the social aspects, then they need to be social. They will learn in time that it can be pretty rewarding.

I liked the batman chart! very clever to who ever did it.

It was a collaboration piece between Bittrex and this brilliant up and coming artist named... me. :D

but if an individual is here for the social aspects, then they need to be social. They will learn in time that it can be pretty rewarding.

I reckon it is the "time" that people don't have the patience for, as they kind of expect quick results. I think those that stay discover the truth, it is rewarding and it takes time (effort too)

yeah, lots of people still looking for and hunting for that elusive quick buck.

How long is the hunt? May as well work toward it in the meantime :D

I have so much growing to do. It is good to have such great examples and emulate. Great efforts for so many years. Endurance and perseverance is the key