I found Erik's argument piece very good.
The proposition:
"Bitcoin, or a similar form of cryptocurrency, will eventually replace governments' fiat money as the preferred medium of exchange."
Watch on youtube
2nd part
Last part
12 minute long starting at 2min.
2nd part at 26:20
Last part at 1:11:00
Context:
On July 2, 2018, Reason and The Soho Forum hosted a debate between Erik Voorhees, the CEO of ShapeShift, and Peter Schiff, CEO and chief global strategist of Euro Pacific Capital.
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I don´t think that Bitcoin will be the future of Money. Fiat Money will be there for a very long time. But it is great to have different oportunities to pay. Bitcoin and some other Cryptocurrencies including Steem will become more popular and used over the next years.
hi @gormogon
bitcoin = mostly idea and infrastructure.
I know many people don't believe in bitcoin. Same many didn't believe in first plane. And indeed first plane/car/train that had been invented are long forgotten.
Fiat money will be definetly at least till we die. Same as cash didnt dissapear. Crypto will be just another way of transfering value.
Yours
Piotr
I watched that debate very interesting. Peter Schiff just repeats the same thing. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value but in that case the same can be said about anything of value. The truth is that it is people’s belief in things that gives things value.
If nobody believes Gold is worth something than it has no value, intrinsic or not. Same for anything.
I’m team bitcoin
But gold will always be valuable.
I don’t understand the argument it’s one or the other. Gold isn’t going away
You are wrong Yonny along with everyone in here that thinks that Gold or Silver has no real value.
1.) Gold has medicinal value just like Silver. All surgeon instruments are made of silver because silver kills all bacteria. There are many other medicinal uses for gold and silver too.
2.) Gold and silver are also very useful in the electronic world. Without Gold and Silver you wouldn't have that computer, internet and all those high end electronic items like your cell phone.
You’re missing the point. I never said gold doesn’t have value. Read it again carefully.
Garlic has medicinal value as well. Is that the standard we are using for currency?
Sure but I wouldn't pay you anything because I grow my own garlic. I can also get garlic from my friends yard and in the grocery store. Just because it has medicinal value doesn't mean it is good for currency. A currency has to be rare and difficult to attain too.
Gold and silver are rare metals and are not easily mined. They also have medicinal value and other uses in electronics along with other techno uses. So they are a better form of currency and has real useful value.
true indeed. im seeing the same sentiment from the masses, "gold is worthless...its
only valuable because its only so much of it"...
Gold is not worth investing in as a store of value because its utility value is dependent on the economy being strong as do all utility metals. When the economy is weak and a store of value is required the utility value of the gold falls meaning that all you get is a flush of volatility and a stabling out. this could be higher or LOWER than when the economy was doing well. A gold investment is a straight up gamble. You would be better investing in patents which not only have utility but a store of value .....assuming you have done your research well.
The world and its relationship with gold is very different to pre-1974.
Very great argument, with a nice background for video.
Incorrect, gold is used in electronics as a conductor of electricity.
Believe? You mean trust?
No
Believe: To have confidence in the truth, the existence, or the reliability of something, although without absolute proof that one is right in doing so:
Only if one believes in something can one act purposefully.
So, BTC - Bitcoin is this new religion, based on believe?
The correct spelling in this sentence is belief.
Cheap Charlie!!!
Lol Debbie downer
tats true even gold does not have any real world value..atlease bitcoin is more valuble than gold.
Gold looks nice.
Im team bitcoin so not trolling here... u realize gold is worth more then bitcoin right?
The total marketcap of gold is over 7 trillion
Bitcoin is way under 500 billion even at its high
Gold is worth much more. I’m more pro bitcoin but saying bitcoin is worth more is a lie. You have to compare the total value not cherry pick a measurement of one to the other. A ounce of gold is worth less then a bitcoin doesn’t mean anything , there are more kilos of gold then bitcoins so A kilo of gold is worth more then a bitcoin
You can compare Units anyway u want it’s not valid. Total value of all is only honest practical way.. if u divide all gold by same number of total bitcoins mined the number is way more valuable then a bitcoin. Let’s be honest guys. There’s no need for bogus arguments! Bitcoin is a capable argument of value without lying or not making a fair comparison
What really interests me is what if Crypto's market cap one day matches gold's. That's at least a 14 times price increase. Hope you bought cheap in this bear market like I did, because the sale isn't going to last forever.
We are in the future, and as long as people have internet working, crypto will reign. :D
People can't wrap their heads around cryptocurrencies yet.. People couldn't wrap their heads around the internet or cellphones when they were first introduced.. This is all part of the growing process for new technologies.
in the end 2017, people believe BTC will be something big that can change the world (may be they do'nt know what is BTC), so BTC price go rocketing. But now, people know BTC is not good enough to believe for a bright future, so BTC price down. Is Bitcoin the Future of Money? I think maybe "No"
An interesting suggestion, but not quite. In late 2017, the price of bitcoin rose because people saw the increasing value (from educated investors) and wanted in on this quick profit. This (obviously) created a bubble, and when the bubble popped, the price fell. It's practically the same as what what happened in early 2014, and based off of that, it will likely recover (slowly but surely) over the course of the next 2-3 years. Not an advisement, no inside knowledge, just an educated guess based off of similar events in the past. That's what the past is there for, is it not? To learn from.
No, If you're looking for a time when the price of BTC rose because of high expectations you'd have to look at the beginning of 2017, when BTC once again rose over $1,000 because of the possibility of ETFs making it more mainstream - the ETFs failed, BTC dropped below 1k, only to rise again within days. No, when bit coin spikes because of high hopes for the future, it's a small spike, and easily recovered.
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The truth is that all the currency money does not have any back gold to assure their value. It just a number in a Bank computer who is using a exchange mode of transaction. If you get a lone from a Bank that is what happen. In my humble opinion, may both bitcoin and goverment money will continue coexisting.
absolutely correct.
an object is worth whatever one is willing to pay for it...an auction
Yah.. Well said sir!
please clarify the meaning of your comment more ... I'm sorry I still don't understand
Bitcoin will replace the fiat money. Let's see a example-
Fiat money is the parent of currency and cryptocurrency is it's child. So in future parent has to die at some day and child has to take place. This is the future no one can stop the the future and future is lies within the cryptocurrency. It's my opinion. i hope you all agree with me.
Nice post and the video contains all the necessary thing taht can help for newbie to understand the concept of bitcoin
Thanks for sharing @finprep
I personally think both with coexist in the near future. Decades and decades from now that could all change.. The people that run the world will not fold over easily, and they fully understand the implications of a decentralized global p2p currency. As far as I'm concerned, it's just smart investment to own some cryptos, because there is a good chance that they are the future.
thanks for info
When you write coexist do you mean like a friendly coexsistance? I dont really bealive in a kind of peacefull coexistance in long term. The coexistance is only in a time of adoption and havent yet been so friendly or peacefull. I think Bitcoin is a war against fiat where either the fiat will belong to the few or or Bitcoin.
All of you doing very well ...!!!
keep doing and motivate to all Steemians!!!!
@sems41
Banks are never gonna leave the fiat currency or they'll lose the power over the government and people. In near future they both will co-exists and adopted by banks too.
95% of the world's money exist in digital form already....
What is Fiat then? Cash = the matter of time, when it will be totally gone.
Fiat, the money govs printing? Banks creating?
And then crypto = the money "some programmer" creates (pre-mined coins). Or mineable cryptos (BTC, BCH, LTC etc etc...) .
I've been in the space for some time now, and than more I dig, than more I see some "fantasies" around the space.
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to be that pessimistic.
What gets me most about this interview is the lack of awareness about what is going on in the world. Cryptocurrencies being adopted is a given but it is not for the reasons talked about here. They will be adopted by failing economies. Ones whose own currencies are worthless. If your own currency is more volatile than a crypto the ordinary people are going to use that crypto because it will still be worth something in a days time. Over time more and more national currencies are going to become worthless and cryptos adopted. This will lead to the cryptos becoming more stable.
It will be a bottom up revolution.
Interesting thoughts on value. Of course value, just as truth or beauty, is in the eye of the beholder or the heart of the other. What makes a Picasso worth millions while my daughters scribble worth "nothing" to anyone other than me? In truth, a Picasso would only mean money to me where my daughter's drawing will be cherrished my entire life.
funny, I watched this the other day, keep in mind Peter owns a share of Gold Money
Whether we like it or not, peter schiff made some very good points. Even when the crowd was laughing at him, he is older and wiser and I think it’s very important to be open minded and see the points from those we do not agree with. I can understand that this debate basically is a pr jab at bitcoin and he has something to gain from his stance, but he made some very good points.
Watched the whole hour long debate. Great debate, but when the moderator gets involved it goes south. You can tell who the audience was rooting for! Go BTC!
Yes, while I agreed with what the moderator was saying he should have stuck to moderating. It made the debate have less worth when he was being partisan. I would also make a bad moderator as I also would not be able to restrain myself.
Peter Schiff had nothing new to say ... all the time same content. I would like to share my understanding on this that we all have seen analog world where we deal with physical money and it moved at a speed which is directly proportional to speed of human. Next came the digital world where money transaction were faster and farther but there are gatekeeper institutions which control & regulate money as per the direction of government.
We are about to enter in a new phase of currency/money i.e. Cryptocurrency which is combination of the software vis.a.viz currency. By this way money becomes more than just a static unit of value within any country boundary and this is also not at the mercy of gatekeeper institutions or government for security. In this new era there would not be any intervention from human being or any gatekeeper institution. Bitcoin is the first step of this evolution. Bitcoin is just not a digital money rather its a revolution which is going to democratizes money.
The "gatekeeper institutions" and the governments are working hand in hand and they always have done, this is evident in the fact that various governments and banking institutions have bailed each other out over the years, so the very last thing they want to see is a currency in which they can't intervene, (think quantitative easing) governments feel the need to be in control of everyone, they don't want anything that they can't be in control of, it wouldn't surprise me if the crypto's that are backed by these institutions were the only crypto's that are endorsed by governments in the future.
sir give me some sbd
best part at:
1:00:10
Schiff: "Some people just own it, because they think it is going up. And they think they are going to get rich."
Verhoes: "You can equally apply that to gold."
Schiff: "Not that many people think they are going to get rich witch gold."
Verhoes: "Not anymore."
I personally feel that Bitcoin is a form of revolution of modern times and like old times and all other revolutions this is also being suppressed. None the less Bitcoin is future and being decentralized this will ultimately replace fiats and will define future.
Nice post
But governments are per definition centralised, what does this mean? The world as we know it will fall appart? You think this can be done without war? Organised murder?
Hi there.... Well that's a good question..... Whether it will be an organised murder or there will be a war.. Only time can tell... We can just hope for a better future and world as it seems is workibg towards it... Also I can sense that Bitcoin is bringing people across the globe closer.... We are a community... Right???
I agree with you that it's a revolution in currency. It might take few year to reach on such a level when we can visit any country without having fiat and only bitcoin. That day would very easy as no need to use forex etc.
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Hi Alok.... Can't help imagining a common currency across the globe....no hard cash required... Ultimate sci-fi... And this does not seem far... Amen
Appreciate it
This is just a question of time, and I kind of sense that time is coming very soon
https://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
Reward-Drop ETA date: 23 May 2020 22:27:28
Yes, I agree
Well said sir... We all waiting for its good time!
Great debate bitcoin will go to moon we are just waiting for that thanks dear
I wish that will happens. We are waiting for a long time because until now we just find another bearish and make all investor getting loses including me.
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Well said mam.. Waiting also
I think now bitcoin/cryptocurrency has become an alternative currency used by every human being in the world today,
however, whether the cryptocurrency can last long considering each country there must be a real currency that is used in every state financial transaction.
and automatically every country will definitely try to make policies so that real currencies must be used and minimize the use of cryptocurrencies.
You think that every human being in the world today uses cryptocurrency? That is incorrect.
I don't think everyone uses the cryptocurrency !! but rest assured that in the next few years !! the use of real currency in the transaction will definitely be greatly reduced !!
Certainly, it is future of money.
Yes bitcoin will replace all FIAT across the world , because it is not controlled by anyone , everyone are trying to put down bitcoin , but it will surely survive and move up
How does it "not being controlled by anyone" mean that it will replace fiat? I think it will replace fiat but not for that reason. that reason is generally given without understanding the implications.
A economy which will controlled by people not by the politicians and bankers , its only way is blockchain technology and crypto currency .
very tough for the leaders to accept and implement it .
Many thanks for appreciating
People against Bitcoin always predict that it will implode and that it has no intrinsic value. Time and again Bitcoin proved them wrong. Everything is relative as anything under the sun may have no value as nothing lasts forever in this world. People provides value to anything that they hold valuable.
Yes bitcoin .
Great comment. Very much sir, yes, yes.
Lol
I would really like to see an investing debate that is not flavored by biased people.
Probably that is just impossible due to the definition of investing :
"Investing is the act of committing money or capital to an endeavor with the expectation of obtaining an additional income or profit"
So yeah off course to us Bitcoin is the future of money :) For me personally retired Lego sets are also a candidate :)
If BTC is indeed the real thing... where does steem fit into this?
So BTC is a real currency and steem is a token?
I don't see the difference? Do you?
Bitcoin cannot proceed anymore to $20,000 because the fee is very high. Steem and sbd is the key to blockchain with no fee at all on transactions.
How's that? You mean mining costs? I believe these costs will 'adapt' in time
Watched the whole hour long debate. Great debate, but when the moderator gets involved it goes wrong. now days gold have no value when we talk about bitcoin future! Go BTC!
Bitcoin is the last hope for a lot of People to live in a fair world.
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@finprep
The problem with Peter's arguments is that his arguments would depend on the demise of Bitcoin. It always comes down to "Bitcoins value depends on the trust of people using it". If people lose trust, the value depreciates as it would with anything we consider valuable.-Imagine the day we can recreate gold on the molecular level.
-Imagine if we create something superior on a molecular level.
So we all can throw in possibilities, but what we have to focus on is what we currently have. That in my opinion is mistrust in a digital world, and I don't see golds position to help this in any way.
"Imagine the day we can recreate gold on the molecular level"
hilarious ignorance ...
I'm really disappointed with Schiff. I am a big fan of the guy but he really is just being stubborn about cryptos. His biggest critique is that Bitcoin has no "practical use" and therefore no intrinsic value. It just goes to show that he has a very small understanding of the technology because the block chain has a far greater number of more practical uses than gold could dream of.
Fiat currency has no intrinsic value, it's a printed piece of paper. Some form of digital payment system is obvious, whether that is blockchain is the question. Alipay in China has practically killed fiat in the major cities such as Shanghai. Without an incentive and legal backing, bloackchain tech might not be picked up by the masses.
Though I don’t agree with this Peter Schiff Gentleman I think he brings up good points we should all keep in mind! Sadly he also brings up invalid points that show he’s not as well versed in bitcoin se he should be. My ex listened to his podcast and is the reason my ex bought gold at the top 🤣
Luckily he also bought bitcoin in 2013-2015 and gave me the House in the split since the bitcoin was worth more.
It is very difficult to just assume Bitcoin replacing fiat money. Even if it does,it will be a process of slow adoption that will take decades. This is because the Government in general has to take careful and necessary procedures and/or regulations that will ensure a safe transition from Fiat to Bitcoin.
Perhaps the biggest challenge is the volatility of Bitcoin and Altcoin. Most currencies at least of developed countries are regulated by their respective Governments and allowed to "float freely" a.k.a Government intervention if required.
Other issues that will complicate such process is international trade.
Fingers crossed for the CBOE ETF eh
I had already watched that video, thanks for sharing anyway, it's a very good debate.
What I found interesting is that some of the arguments put forth by both parties could apply as well against the case they are trying to make themselves. I believe there is no perfect solution when it comes to sound money.
But I won't be voting, this post adds no extra value to what Reason, Peter Schiff, or Erik Voorhees brought to the table during that event.
Schiff's whole argument seems to be based on a strawman. Bitcoin/crypto is not trying to mimic asset backed currencies (eg gold) or fiat. It is trustless which is a new class of currency. He needs to wrap his head around that one.
Very interesting video and thank you for sharing it @finprep... I found most of the arguments put forward by Erik about Bitcoin to be true except one, which according to him is also its greatest attribute ... and that attribute is the portability of Bitcoin. I feel that this same attribute can bring more harm to Bitcoin than good.
In this Video, he said that it can be sent anywhere in this world at a very low transaction fee and it doesn't need a third party ( Government or Central bank) to validate the transaction. Since we all know that Governments across the world want to have control over everything and Bitcoin transactions are something which they can't control, so I feel it is more likely that Governments will go after Bitcoin in the near future if a common ground is not found. Secondly, what if bitcoins are used by terrorists? Wouldn't it give them a leverage to blow up something at a click of a mobile wallet button?
We have an issue in India where people are not allowed to use Fiat currencies to buy bitcoin nowadays all thanks to the Reserve Bank of India which instructed all the banks to blocked bank accounts of many Bitcoin investors and banned many cryptocurrency exchanges.
Peter Schiff is actually right in his own way and his arguments also made sense when he spoke about the price of anything is about supply and demand. If one day we wake up and find out that Bitcoins have been made illegal, wouldn't the price implode overnight? The truth is, the future of bitcoins ( in many countries) depends upon how the government perceives it and not the supply-demand price forecast.
In my opinion, Fiat currencies and Bitcoin can coexist together just like Gold and Fiat currencies are coexisting today. There are merits and demerits in both but I am sure a way can be found out soon and then only, we can claim Bitcoin to be the true successor of FIAT currency.
Dear Peter,
Currencies are no longer backed by gold because the system failed. It failed. Failure means that it does not work any more. Kaput, doesn't work, broken. Is next on the agenda resurrecting communism? Currencies cannot be backed by gold in the future because there is no longer enough gold in the world. The World Bank has been working on alternative asset based system for the backing of a currency for over 20 years and have hit a dead end. How can you be so ignorant of this?
Bitcoin is the gold of the future and the future is now. People should be aware of that and be less dependent of the traditional financial system. Thanks for this content @finprep. I invite you to follow me.
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I think bitcoin is digital GOLD. If you are a early picker no body can stop you being Millionaire in future. @finprep
the libratarian party is pushing hard for bitcoin acceptance. give em a vote
of course it is. soon they will be making food out of bit coin like solient green
@finprep, I have google for some time. The best way to make a wallet is design the bitcoin before run the bitcoin server.I know there are likewise a way call , But I don't know how to associate it with the wallet. I mean how to make every client.
It will eventually...
I do not think so. Bitcoin is important, but it is not the whole world.
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Your useless comments are not the "whole world" either.
@tumutanzi i think you are saying right that btc is not the everything in the whole world but i think @finprep that this is a big opportunity to get benefit out of it until it exits.and nice debate and i think "Erik" defend it very well
Absolutely right.. Well said sir!
That's interesting. Thank you for posting the video @finprep.
Appreciate it sir
I think will be Future of money But now at a time Bitcoin was Again I think Creates Bulls and Goes again and Again down and down as they can because Their Markets was Now at a time very Low according to 2017 Last Year and in a Last Month
Bitcoin is the nect global currency
Watchout,!!!
The future is now, the cryptos win
India's leading crypto currency ATC Coin going high level step by step
@finprep Bitcoin is future. Next generation of world use it mostly. Bitcoin will be able to replace all fiat currency.
Great Debate
In this market we can not say anything with perfection. Few months back a hype was created about consensus 2018 .And now same manipulation and hype are created For ETF .According to me BTC Dominance is not a big issue ,positive news like ETF approval can bring BTC to at lease 14000 .But lets see what happen ...