I got flagged and I liked it

in #downvoting5 years ago

As some of you might be aware, hardfork21 on the near horizon and it promises to shake the Steem ecosystem up a bit and while I hope it will deploy smoothly, will likely create a hell of a lot of DramaSteem outbursts because, HF21 is bringing sexy downvoting back into fashion.

The Economic improvement proposal is a three pronged fork of 50/50 curation, a convergent curve and 2.5 free downvotes and hopefully together, something will happen. Anything is better than nothing but the worst case scenario is, not much happens at all. While there are various levels of disagreement to these factors, what we can all agree on is that we aren't in the perfect position now, therefore we need to act and develop.

Today, I got flagged.

And I want to see more of this.

I don't know this person, however this is someone who is looking after their community and their investment. What he flagged me for is that he felt my content wasn't suitable to earn STEM because it wasn't technology based enough for his liking. I disagree with his appraisal (or I wouldn't have tagged it technology) however, I strongly agree with his action.

The front ends need people to step up and pay attention to what content is being put there and whether it is suitable if it is a niche topic frontend. This isn't about quality of post, it is about theme of post, however people who want their favorite steem-engine frontends to do well need to be aware of what is going on so as not to dilute the content experience, or give content rewards to those who do not, like this kind of activity:

over a year and a half ago I wrote a series of posts about creating Helsing a high stake community supported account that would be controlled anonymously to destroy the earning potential of obvious reward abuse, you know the type - 10 posts with a screenshot graph a day and the highest REP on the platform - kinda accounts. At the time, the account was making in excess of 4000 dollars a day. Today? It is making 220 dollars a day which is ~900 STEEM.

Will the community gather once there is the economic incentive to do so?

What I am glad about is that on PAL and LEO at least, they have the @nopal4u and @noleo4u accounts doing similarly. What I think would be great on the frontends is if they select "executioners", anonymous people who are charged with roaming the waters and taking care of business as they see fit. It is possible that there could be several executioners curating with the same account.

My original idea was for Steem of course because at that point, there was only Steem however, it would of course be a problem because, no one could agree. The difference with the frontends is that they are "owned communities" that don't have to live by the same amount of decentralization as Steem as, they are Steem decentralized.

The whole idea of communities is to give both the power and burden to those who operate them to police them and make them the kind of places that people who enjoy the theme of the frontend appreciate and value. Those who invest into these communities are likely hoping for success of their investment, so should be doing the same.

If policing doesn't take place, the same behavior we have seen on Steem will decimate the frontends in short order as they are very easy to build, meaning that if the real user base stops enjoying their experience, they can not only leave, but create their own and on the new version, keep it clean.

While we all keep talking about investing and earning, one of the aspects that people avoid is the protection of investments and earnings as no one wants to be the one who does the dirty work, face the abuse or make mistakes that harm people. So instead, everyone suffers at the hands of abusers.

The massive benefit on the interfaces is that for example, the flag I took from @zorg67 was aimed to remove STEM, not STEEM. @nopal4u and @noleo4u are the same as they have no Steem Power meaning that all they remove are the potential earnings of the native coin. This means that flags for mis-categorization should start coming thick and fast and be accepted as that. Of course, for those who don't separate their tokens, they could smash someone across multiple interfaces- but that is at the risk of the contributor.

Regardless of what approach gets taken, in time it has to be understood that as a community of owners, it is up to us to make sure we keep our houses clean and that means accepting that there is housework to do. The taboo around downvoting needs to be broken and instead it should be seen as a healthy part of community discourse.

Remember, the rewards aren't yours until they are in your wallet.

It really is a pity that so many people think that it is okay to abuse the reward pools with spam and scam, plagiarism and whatever kinds of poor behavior and shit they can dish up to get a little more. But, just like serial killers, rapists, thieves, paedophiles, racists and assholes of all kinds - they are always going to exist. However, since it is possible to be an asshole on Steem, the only way to change behavior is to punish it as doing nothing gives earning incentive to it.

This is your investment potential and just like there should be some wisdom and sense applied to downvoting, there should be some applied to how one thinks a successful future will look. I am quite confident that most people's idea of utopia is filled with rapists and serial killers roaming free unchecked, and the people who scam the most having the most resources.

You want freedom from authority, stop relying on them to clean your mess.

This is your investment - isn't it?

Taraz
[ a Steem original ]

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I had something like this in mind, but it wouldn't have read as well :)

The whole idea of communities is to give both the power and burden to those who operate them to police them and make them the kind of places that people who enjoy the theme of the front-end appreciate and value.

And it is a burden, it's also time-consuming and does leave a bitter taste in the mouth at times.

Those who invest into these communities are likely hoping for success of their investment, so should be doing the same.

Totally. While a centralized 'no token 4 u' can tackle the most obvious abuse, the community must get stuck in where they can spot blatent low effort work taking higher (self-voted/circle-jerked) order in the shop window

If policing doesn't take place, the same behavior we have seen on Steem will decimate the frontends in short order as they are very easy to build, meaning that if the real user base stops enjoying their experience, they can not only leave, but create their own and on the new version, keep it clean.

Welcome to #newsteem and the tribes. The 'good' whales and wider community have done a shit job with Steem, here is our 2nd chance.

And it is a burden, it's also time-consuming and does leave a bitter taste in the mouth at times.

This is why everyone needs to participate, so that the burden is not that great and not that bitter. It can be a hard thing to recognize but, not everyone is going to act well.

The 'good' whales and wider community have done a shit job with Steem, here is our 2nd chance.

THe beauty with the tribes ( and perhaps my next post) is how many new whales there are now. Whales that have bought in to be there.

... Whales that have bought in to be there.

That's an important point. I've bought my stake, not been handed it just for being there at the right time.

I'll be damned if some scammer is going to dilute it!

And hopefully, the people who are tokenized whales now are those who understand what happened when the whales were the scammers :)

The tribe will be valued based on their understanding :)

Seems that is why Steem is lagging, most people have no idea what it is capable of :D

I have come across so much abuse lately and have enjoyed flagging. Examples need to be made and luckily these bastards are easily found on the smaller communities. I am sure they are doing the same on Steem as they have got away with it. They overlap though and guaranteed they are doing it in every tribe. I know over the next month with the users we have on sports we will have it under control, maybe less.

Examples need to be made and luckily these bastards are easily found on the smaller communities

And it is easier to reason on the themed platforms.

I know over the next month with the users we have on sports we will have it under control, maybe less.

Will see how it goes, when there is money available, the scammers come out to play.

Ahh I'm going to be smashing poor people on all fronts then as switching front ends to deny a specific coin seems like too much hard work :S

good thing I haven't found things to downvote yet

switching doesn't help because the vote will apply to all :D
But I think, it is actually a kind of good thing for now - ppl gotta learn

Preach it! Many have gotten hurt feelings over being downvoted, but the communities and tags and tribes will not mean anything without moderation.

I'm so happy to see this post from a respected individual.

If we do not protect our investment it does not hold value and that is exactly why no matter how much I love Steem, I am no longer building my stake in Steem.

I'm hoping the example the Tribes are setting and the HF will get more people involved in protecting our Steem investment.

If we do not protect our investment it does not hold value and that is exactly why no matter how much I love Steem, I am no longer building my stake in Steem.

THe same will have to happen for SMTs and other aspects on Steem so, I am building mine :)

I'm hoping the example the Tribes are setting and the HF will get more people involved in protecting our Steem investment.

Absolutely. A few big abusers could be taken down as an example.

I got flagged the other day on Steem Ace... And it didn't feel bad either!

Yup, not the end of the world :)

For a newbie like me, this is very informative thank you for posting this👌

Posted using Partiko iOS

Learn from many sources.

You reminded me to flag some folks and get flagged back. Thx. :D

Always good to be of service :)

Great to see that the intention is finally getting used and I hope it continues to expand as more realize the implications for our own accounts over time. I guess I will need to get my flag hat on more in the future!

most frontends have one free flag a day? People who hold tribe coins they want to increase in value should use them to distribute more precisely and decrease dilution to those who are only there to extract.

You have 50 thousand SP but want someone else to do the flagging.

I want all 200 million of the powered up stake to take part.

i-got-flagged-and-i-liked-it

'I kissed a girl and I liked it'..., sorry got distracted ;)

Greetings dear friend @tarazkp.

Definitely creating accounts to punish abuse is necessary for all these new tribes that are being born. In fact, many of them have that account already created and with an assignment of native tokens in their power.

Steemit's work is titanic compared to these tribes. Steemit's "Cleaners" try to do their job but there are always some abusers who escape.

There are other platforms such as "Narrative" that have "niches" but there you can restrict membership in one of these groups. Access may be denied or until a member is expelled.

I hope this does not happen in steemit, because it would go against the freedom and inclusion provided by the decentralization of the blockchain.

P.S:
Since you seem to have some decent knowledge and experience, would you mind if I ask you to share your own opinion on my latest publication:
"DID OUR" WORLD LEADERS "JUST PUSH GLOBAL RECESSION AWAY from our doorsteps?"
https://www.steemleo.com/economy/@crypto.piotr/did-our-world-leaders-just-push-global-recession-away-from-our-doorsteps

I would appreciate it greately.

Yours
Piotr

I got flagged today as well. One of my STEM posts. I think the community don’t really like programming posts related to the Steem blockchain. I was kind of upset but then I read your post 🙃

Posted using Partiko iOS

I've been getting flags on comments from an account with accompanying alts. The reason, has since been removed, but I'll add a screen shot. It was actually left on a reply to one of whatsup's comments as we were nearly all being downvoted. I have never encountered these accounts before these downvotes started, so I guess my punishment is for not knowing they existed.

My concern is that the 2.5 free downvotes aren't going to combat this type of abuse, but rather assist it. These accounts will now be able to throw even more downvotes out there or potentially let the SP build back up so that it's not just cents coming off.

Posted using Partiko Android

Dear @tarazkp

Personally I consider downvoting a trap. Very dangerous weapon, that can bring more harm than good.

Most major stake holders do not seem to bother to warn people before they will downvote them. Or to at least explain what downvote was about. There is so many powerful people with their own vision, and they can downvote you for so many different reasons.

I've witnessed so many people abandoning this platform because of downvotes. People who struggle to get any exposure, spent hours publishing their content, wondering if their work and time on Steemit is worth it.

They see price of Steem constantly dropping, they see userbase shrinking and lack of engagement is visible everywhere. And many are still here, on the edge. Not sure if they are not wasting their time.

And then they get strong downvote (like my good friend @uio, who has been downvoted by one of witnesses). No warning, no explanation. Just a bloody flag.

Imagine that many of those users will feel hopeless. They will know that noone with large stake was ever there to help, but then they show up just to give them an extra blow.

And many (just the way @uio did) would decide to quit, since this downvote was a "straw that broke their back".

Downvoting is fine, but if we really want to help them we all should have our "blacklists" of all people that we already warned, and only then we should proceed with downvote. Not the other way around.

Let's all remember, that all of those platform biggest asset is not token behind those platforms. The most valuable are users.

Yours,
Piotr