When Hive hardforked from Steem, I was too busy with van life to even notice or care about Blurt - the other platform that came out of it. And when I did notice that I had a blurt account I was not interested - I thought Hive was the place to be.
I see now that I was wrong.
When @vincentnijman dropped the news about the Hive hardfork I saw Hive's appeal quickly, considering the centralization takeover that had been going on on Steem.
But ever since then something about Hive felt off to me. Could not quite put my finger on it. I kept wondering who are those witnesses and who keeps voting for them? Why don't the names ever change? And what about the voting wars whose basic mechanics were still present on Hive?
The more I thought about it the weirder it got. Where many here had effectively been looking for a free speech haven, where anything goes and people simply choose their tribe and their feed - Hive and Steem had taken the route of
Enabling censorship under false pretenses
The downvote button. Here is a little post on Blurt that makes the case against downvoting and why a downvote-enabled platform will inevitably end up in centralized structures of control and oppression.
Why Downvotes Contradict Decentralization - A Mathematical Perspective
The large accounts on this platform and on Steem call it "fighting spam, abuse and plagiarism", but it became clear that that was not what was actually happening. What happened was censorship under politically correct pretense.
There are ample cases where hefty downvotes were dished out involving political matters. Character assassinations. And the deliberate destruction of people's reputation on Hive because of the way they chose to run their blog or what they saw fit to share with their audience. And somebody didn't like it.
Here is a take from Frot, whom I miss dearly these days. He was one of my favorites on here.
MY EVER CHANGING RELATIONSHIP WITH HIVE
After Frot I was ultra dismayed when the gang hit @kennyskitchen in the Covid time after he started to call them out. Here is one of many many examples on his blog. IT is worth browsing through more of his posts.
They literally mobbed him off the platform. Kenny had done so much good on here and for Steem, he founded TribeSteemup that became a powerful collective of open-minded freethinkers, healers and nerds who cared about freedom, sovereignty and putting the power back in the hands of humanity - by learning about self-reliance, uncovering the hidden power structures of modern society, and exposing the crimes of the gang in the highest places running Earth's control systems.
Here is what @TribeSteemUp looks like today:
If you have read that mathematical explanation from the first link, you will see how even such a positive tribe that had a lot of backing from a large stakeholder was not strong enough to withstand the corrosive force of coordinated character assassination and flagging avalanches of a cartel with obviously bad intentions. The tribe disbanded and only a few remain on here.
There is a police force on this platform pretending to do good for Hive when all they really achieve is alienating people and making promising minds leave the platform. I am not the first one to say so. But I will definitely not be the last.
Then there are also other problems on Hive.
People like @valued-customer have written extensively about the misuse of DHF funds on Hive (that originate from the former Ninja mined stake on Steem), and how some receiving parties of those funds can show no audit as to where the funds went or keep going in perpetuity. And it seems the receiving parties don't care to show such proof either. They have the backing of their fellow gang members who keep voting for the proposal.
What can the small people do, right? It's just like in politics where you have NOTHING to say about anything.
It's like there is a black hole built into Hive that is sucking the majority of the energy. And I do not consent to keep supplying that energy in any form, especially now that I have seen so much abuse and injustice.
As George Carlin put it: "It's a big CLUB. And you ain't in it!"
Authoritarian measures change people's behavior
This all fit rather well to my eerie experiences and intuitions about Hive not being quite right. I had one absolutely spooky interaction with the self-professed thought- and conduct police on here and it was about as creepy as meeting a politician under a bridge at night.
One of the main things I did notice over time here, especially now in hindsight, is that I SELF-CENSORED. It is always a fine line between diplomatic laying out of what I found vs. frantic spewing of words that could be misinterpreted as harmful to someone.
But really: If I am honest - why do I even care? I am not responsible for hurting someone else's feelings. If we start running the world like that we will have a merciless dictatorship of thought, which is what all control-freak gangs terrorizing their fellow men have been working on for decades, centuries and probably millennia: Conform and shut up!
I self-censored NOT because I may have some payouts for a post reduced, I think I did so because I knew that if I am stepping on someone's giant toes around here, I will get put onto a black list of automatic downvotes until my account is hidden from view, and all my comments.
I do not want to keep using a platform where that risk constantly hangs over anything I have ever written - ultimately decided on by some dodgy people with shady behavior, on a whim. If I wanted THAT I'd still be voting for politicians or using facebook.
I don't choose friends who haven't done their homework when it comes to the system matrix either.
I don't care to hang out with people who believe TV fictions and hold that narrative against me when I talk to them. It is a waste of everybody's time and energy.
I feel for the sleepy normies, and I wish them all the best. But I will not dumb my words or content down in order to appeal to their immaturity, or mince my words in order to not trigger some insane self-professed police man making sure everybody gets back into line.
But I now see I have often done so. More often than I am proud of. Fear of retaliation, just like in a shitty office job where your boss is a giant ass but you think you need the salary.
Had I really spoken my mind here to the fullest extent, I may have already been forced into the downvote crosshairs. But why even bother having an alleged "free speech platform" if I avoid speaking my mind?
So, why now?
Call it "preemptive damage control".
I am following my inner call, and I am working on something big. I will release a dub of a video soon, that the powers that shouldn't be would prefer not to go viral in English. So I predict, the downvotes will come my way if that work gets enough attention on here. No clue if it will. Just a hunch because I know about its significance. And about the downvote madness on hive connected to the covid narrative.
The very existence of a downvote function - for whatever arbitrary politically correct reason - creates precisely the sort of society I do not want to be part of. It is the reason I am powering down my hive stake, and will henceforth put any capital not into Hive but into Blurt - where such a downvote function and self-professed opinion police force does not exist. And where people say what they think even if somebody else will feel hurt. Too bad.
Am I asking you to consider doing the same? I think I am. Do consider where you put your mental energy and what you want this place to be vs. what this place has shown itself to be at times.
I will keep posting here until some higher up decides on a whim to nuke my posts and all the reputation I have built on here over the years. But I will no longer hold back for the fear of being censored, we got enough of that crap in the larger society out there and need not put effort into places that can have a few people decide that your entire group, blog or account should be flagged to invisibility tomorrow.
I am prepared for it happening here, it is what has happened to countless others before me who did the moral thing and loudly objected to the abuse of the few large stakeholders on this platform. Most of them are now on Blurt and speak their mind freely.
I will not create any more buy orders for hive nor hope for its glorious future like I have for years - it is a giant deception and I am really grateful I finally saw through it. If Hive ever does become huge and the downvote censorship gang is still in charge here - I do not care about missing out on the financial gains one bit! If centralized thought-control is the only way to run a network I don't want any part in it.
So to the few people on here whose presence I shall dearly miss on Blurt - Do consider signing up. If your hive account existed when hardforked over from Steem you will already have an account on blurt, and if not I can help you get set up - just hit me up. For those active on both networks I will prioritize dropping my comments over on Blurt, and not on your Hive account any longer.
Posting on both networks is easy and takes you about 2 minutes longer, if that's what you choose to do. Blurt feels like Steemit before all the nonsense started.
Dirty laundry or just paranoia?
I want to leave you with some links that share a bit on the story that unfolded and the mental things that came my way some people seemingly would prefer nobody on hive knew. I did not know, but it was enough to shake me awake and make a choice, because all my past intuitions and mental impulses suddenly made sense again. Everything is in consonance again now, and though Blurt is small and sort of cute, it does vibe highly for those interested in free and open discourse.
If you want to read up on the thriller and decide for yourself what all the fuzz is about, start here:
My Response to paradigmprospector's question
As for the necessity of getting rid of the downvote function, read Daniel's post here:
"Ten Ways Hive is Destroying Itself and Driving Investment Towards Blurt!"
Since all of this is still on-chain (except for Daniel's main post, oddly enough) you can find a lot of shenanigans by digging through the search function on peakd or by using the downvote trending feature on https://hivealive.io/untrending from time to time.
Since I am preparing for the ultimate monetary system tear-down and it's housecleaning time anyway, this may be the perfect time to start anew on blurt, and to let my crew on hive know that this place will not be a priority to me any longer.
I want a place to post my content that is TRULY censorship-resistant, especially considering what I have planned and what the plandemic has taught us. Not only paying lip-service to free speech but embodying it in a place where it is welcome and wanted.
Needless to say, this is NOT financial advice. I am just sharing my moral imperative here in good faith so that you may make a better informed choice about what you are going to do.
The following is an INCOMPLETE list of people I want to share this with. If you do not care or simply want to keep things as they are that is of course up to you.
Please feel free to tag friends in the comments who you think may want to consider this for themselves.
@deirdyweirdy @clareartista @vincentnijman @selfhelp4trolls @takhar @atma.love @movingman @inthenow @charlissy @theouterlight @trucklife-family @whywhy @julianhorack @calendulacraft @akdx @fenngen @dreamtales @samstonehill @riverflows
While I. Understand a lot of the frustration, particularly with regards to a small handful of downvote abusers, I find some of the people complaining about this stuff to be either unhinged (hive is controlled by a satanic cabal????) or without a realistic plan for how to build anything that really improves upon what we have. You need people to keep buying the token otherwise the value goes to shit and I don’t see blurt as being incredibly capable in this regard though I do wish them well and do post from time to time.
I’ve been spending most of my time at INLEO because there isn’t much drama there and they’ve been really welcoming to me since they opened up to non-finance content. They are also super capable, and they also don’t seem to be on great terms with this so called “cabal” (which I think is merely just a bunch of social awkward people with anger issues). It’s also not perfect but its allowed me to focus on writing and interacting and stay out of bullshit drama.
I never had any illusions that crypto or hive would solve al our problems. I’m happy if it solves a few, and that it does. It also has more than enough going for it to grow and seems to always self correct over time so I learned to just try to lead by example and not kiss any asses that don’t deserve it and try to be who I am and say what I want to say without starting shit. I’m an artist first and foremost and if it helps me develop as an artist or fund it, it’s worth being here.
My IRL is full of real community and hive has its pockets of it too. If I ever find a better place to connect IRL with digital and the ability to gather resources, I’ll be there. For now the best thing for that other than Hive is Instagram lol so, yeah I’m not quitting hive now.
Let me know where I can find you if you decide to leave for good
Whether someone buys a token or not is a matter of whether they see the point of having it or not. Now on blurt there is one simple mechanism that few people understand the power of and that is micro-commissions. If you understand how hive/steem/blurt works, you are aware that currencies are issued here at a certain constant rate. on blurt it is approximately 4 blurts per block, i.e. every 3-4 seconds, i.e. about ~120,000 Blurts/day. Now if you consider that each user action costs some blurt and let's say for sure that one user using some amount of blurt to publishing, commenting, sending transactions, upvotes, proposals and creating accounts. let's say he will will use on average these 10 blurts (which is quite a rational amount), then 12 000 active users per day will be enough for the supply of blurt to stop growing. The case is that, paradoxically, the more users there are, the greater the need for users to use the platform becomes because more is happening, there are more interesting articles, various temporary discussions on current topics such as world events, etc. There is also a greater sense in promoting yourself, creating a profile, advertising your products. This in turn means that the amount of blurt burned per user increases even more and will lead to a situation in which the prize pool shrinks. As a result, instead of inflation. The token enters the deflation level. The need to have blurt is growing because everyone wants to write on blurt not only because they get some tokens for it, but also because it is starting to become a medium with reach.
The price is rising because the need to buy a token is growing. With the increase in value, and the amount of good content that can be consumed and appreciated, there is also more and more thoughtful voting on content from users. Are you starting to understand?
On blurt, you don't have to worry about spammers or fight fake accounts. You don't have to play low/high effort content shit. To ensure readability and clarity and to prevent good content from getting lost in spam, it is enough to use communities, which allow independent community owners to manage pool groups and flag content at their discretion. Farmers, on the other hand? Let them be as they see fit. You can already see that the blurt community doesn't vote for such accounts, and even if they do, it's only sporadically by mistake before they realize, for example, after a few comments that the account is dead. So the only way to raise capital for the farm is to invest blurt. And since someone invested their money, well... how much can you earn on the farm? Max 20% apr is assuming that the rate is high enough that we can ignore the commission ;] it's no different from the interest rate on HBD. Except that large investors rarely play with farms, and small ones have to bear mega commission costs in relation to the profit.
There is another benefit in connection with the fact that the number of blurts may start to shrink... it is the fact that the fewer blurts in the prize pool, the less sense there is in writing anything because the lower the profitability. So as the prize pool shrinks, there is a decrease in the activity of all those people who have nothing sensible to write and only want to farm because users are no longer so willing to give away tokens for any shit ;]
Spammers will of course continue to publish, but be careful... they will pay for spam, so if it pays off for them, then they are free to do so ;)
The issue of spam is really just a matter of managing content on FE so that what is appreciated, read and well-rewarded is visible, and what is not of interest to users is less visible.
To sum up.. Blurt in its current form is already perfect in that all we need is a large number of users and as the number of users increases, the need to buy blurt appears. If you understand this, you will also understand how weak and ill-considered and unnatural a system hive is.
It's like comparing Permaculture and regenerative agriculture, which harmonizes with the environment, and conventional agriculture, which fights with nature ;]
I also address this answer to other people here who think that downvotes are necessary for something.
@jacobtothe @riverflows
thank you for sharing your view on blurt and its tokenomics.
i have come to the conclusion recently that i would much prefer a system where spammers sometimes get a reward, than a system where good intentioned hard effort bloggers get punished for sharing their unpopular criticism of a topic, under the guise of fighting "abuse" or even "misinformation".
it should be up to each individual user to decide where his votes go - and noone else - and the moment we start to delegate power to a police unit of sorts, the system is provably liable to be abused and thought-policed. like any other system we grew up in.
i hate to conjure up the cheesy notion but:
"i may not agree with what you say but i will forever fight for your right to say it."
To be clear, I absolutely don't agree with down voting content because you don't agree with its truth or anti truth, as it were. I couldn't agree more on this point. X
Exactly. If someone kept statistics on how many good people were wrongly harmed by law enforcement, how much money, resources and time were wasted on fighting so-called "spam and abuse", it might turn out that in 100 years these spammers would not have wasted so many resources and hurt so many people.
A healthy system is one in which people see no point in being frauds and everyone has their own mind to judge what is true and what is not.
The belief that some "older and wiser" must always watch over these "stupid and unaware" so that they do not accidentally fall victim to "disinformation" always comes from the fact that this "older and wiser" simply wants to have a monopoly on the truth. And the truth is that stupid and unaware people are precisely the PRODUCT of censorship, not its victims.
Indeed, it doesn't take 100 years of observation to grasp the destruction wrought civil society by armed gangs of thugs. It only takes removing the blinders of indoctrination to observe that every moment such abuse continues society pays a massive and insuperable price to tolerate it.
Freedom is of inestimable value, and the tawdry blessings of dependence on masters are no more than distractions from the truly valuable blessings of civilization we are able to ourselves produce and enjoy without being subjugated to overlords and deprived of our freedom to so produce.
Unfortunately those incapable of sovereignty, born to be slaves and requiring masters, are a substantial number in our midst, and all too often the mass of them groveling is enough to obscure from view, of we who must learn how to be free as we go, the truth that independent production and exchange is far more rewarding in what we value much more than mere money.
i love the freedom hardliners. thanks for all the fights you have fought on here on behalf of those who don't see the issue.
blessings!!!
And how would you design this and give people a decentralised selfregulation mechanism?
Maybe with stake and up and Downvotes?
Or what is your idea to decentralise a mechanism to incentivise people in regulating in a decentralised manner?
@paradigmprospect
Well, I wrote above. Such a system exists on Blurt and works year after year, showing that it's working. You probably did not read what I wrote carefully.
I explain once again. Downvotes are like fighting weeds with herbicides. You may defeat the weeds and save 10-20% more time than with natural methods, but your food becomes toxic, and the soil dead, sterile and devoid of nutrients. Eating this food makes you sick and eventually you die prematurely from cancer or other nasty things.
And this is what Hive has become, although it had the potential for wider adoption and a place where interesting uncensored discussions take place, currently all the people who really think and write interesting content have fled because this or that whale with a higher stake started downvoting them for something they did not like. The rest, on the other hand, sit quietly and are afraid to speak freely so as not to attract attention and only drain the pool with boring posts that they write mainly for tokens, about neutral topics like photos of their breakfast.
On the other hand, those "politically correct" who always shout what the mainstream says so no one downvotes them, although no one "annoys them with their impudent thinking" are also really bored here because everyone just pats each other on the back and there are no sensible debates. So they fall into stagnation and go to FB to discuss, which paradoxically provides even more space for discussion than the "supposedly" decentralized,"supposedly" without censorship, Hive XD
No intelligent person wants to be here for any other reason than for tokens because the truth is that you can do it just as well on Facebook or Instagram to post photos of your breakfast and even make an influencer career on it where you can earn 100 x more than here, so why get familiar with some keys and complicated exchanges when you can also earn more on Insta and often more because there are bigger reach?
What most people were looking for here - an alternative - a space for free, unrestricted discussion, independent journalism and unrestricted blogging, is not here because there is no journalism without monetization reach, and there is no unrestricted discussion about how someone can destroy your profile if they don't like you just because they have more money.
There are also no reach because you see... although some are just spammers, what you don't understand here is that they are also potential recipients of the content. If someone is interested in a post simply, even if they were just posting AI-generated content for profit, they will join the discussion under the post, take part in a contest or buy an influencer's product, and at that moment they will give meaning to the existence of their channel and make the influencer stay with you longer and attract more people and more influencers.
A platform for wider adoption simply has to have room for all social groups even spammers, low effort content and plagiarists(authors should fight for their rights not the platforms). There is no room for them on hive so there is no space for grow.
Downvotes, in turn, create a toxic, hostile atmosphere of mutual surveillance, judgment and threat. It's like living in Communism, everything you say can be used as a pretext to call you a traitor to your beloved leader and destroy the profile you've been building for years
The main challenge I see is to find a way to both reward good content (meaning content other people on the network deem useful, helpful or valuable) while also making it impossible for one individual or group to dominate the network through sheer monetary influence.
I am still thinking on this, a lot and I feel I am far from a solution at this point. One way would be that you cannot buy your stake only earn it through activity. Maybe a listing will be announced for X time in the future so that everybody can prepare accordingly and be free of monetary influence of the token price.
You have posted here for the long run, and I also have. We are all in agreement that quick riches is not what this place is about. The rewards should be a side effect of adding value to the community.
The issue with icp is that so many perpetual markets exist that can create huge artificial selling pressure that actually has an effect on the spot price. just like with the silver market. i really have to get into tokenomics more and find models that better represent a fair and free discourse platform.
This really all comes down to
1 - granting everyone the ability to judge for themselves what they find worthy and not interfere with that
2 - helping everyone to see fraud when it occurs and let it be up to them to take that information to heart.
3 - being ok if other people vote in a way you see as stupid or harmful
For example: I have zero problem with a bot that auto comments under a post that has been written 100% with AI, notifying those who would potentially vote on it to take that into consideration before voting. What I do have a problem with if someone can take it on himself to override the community's votes on said post, even for the right reasons.
That is where we disagree also, you and so many on here say it is not "your rewards" until actual payout, but what this in effect means that even if many people find a post worthy and upvote it, someone else with dubious intentions can come along and zero that author reward and the curators' rewards out, increasing the non-zeroed out rewards for himself and his gang with the stake majority. This wouldn't be such an issue were it not for the fact that huge money can buy cartel structures on Hive which is exactly the same shit we have in the financial system at large.
Prohibition never works to reduce harm because of the social side effects, it would be much better to point out why a certain substance is harmful to the user rather than banning it for everyone.
Maybe I am idealistic and naive - two traits that have preserved my optimism over these past 15 years wading through a swamp of system lies - but the world I want to live in leaves it up to everyone to decide, a system that incentivizes to appeal to people's moral and intellectual standards to be convinced not to vote for something rather than muffling their voice.
All of this of course has only gotten more complicated with the rampant use of AI and bots.
Essentially we are trying to solve the Kali Yuga task of finding a fair and proper governance system for human beings that somehow ALSO rewards people monetarily for their efforts and is at the same time immune to hostile takeover by some big nasty cartel players and intelligence agencies.
Will we make it? ahahaha, it's 2025, I don't know if humanity is ready. With steem and hive it clearly wasn't.
If for you everything is only about the reward but you also do not go with the incentives to stake up so you can decide more over the reward pool as you see fit.. then maybe you should rather try socialism again?
I have a solution:
Maybe let people themselves reward with their stake in a decentralised fashion? Or do you want to decide what should be voted and which content people should deem good?
I also have a solution for the anti abuse.. you won't like to hear it.
Maybe just try the design and organise, throw the dumb cartel out?
You act as if you are the first noticing any problems. We have them since years. But most just wait till others notice to then follow the solutions or ragequit.
Lol good luck with that strategy.
I want @steemflagrewards and @freezepeach back
Instead of helping achieve what you and most other users here want since years, you all guys did not give a shit. let it leave on others shoulders. So because nearly noone took part in the design, we needed hivewatchers and now after everyone hates hivewatchers still noone wants to try out the original design.
Dumb humans, without hivewatchers or now even after abolishing downvotes all together, this place here would be burning and done because of all the vote farming bots, plagiarists, Circlejerks, and so on and on and on.
Now we have a functional place which is not good enough for you because of muhh rewards. Sad.
Maybe you guys are just lazy and want some weird blurt quick "fixes"
Good luck
Here you get a Downvote to start practicing:
Bro I get it. You want rewards and noone being able to "steal" your PENDING PAYOUT, because it is yoooours, you greedy guy have you also thought about the opposite example ever?
Being:
Pure abuse, noone being able to cancel it out completely or at all, because we just abolish Downvotes? What are the incentives? Everyone spams plagiarism and even worse for some quick rewards?
Ever thought about organising and banding together?
Enough fish can eat a whale. Also a hive whale. Cancel out the rewards of what you deem unfair. But stop whining and complaining while doing nothing, please.
xD then fucking stop your Downvote prohibition campaign right fucking now.
Getting hilarious
We have it. Don't need a system. Just let people do it. Maybe also take part instead of trying to prohibit it, make everything worse, just because you don't want to do anything but keep your few lost cents.
Go to blurt, "no" Downvotes. Noone takes your rewards, but they are just not worth anything at all.
I wonder why.
Or burn down hive with the wrong incentives. Just because you don't want to play along.
Abolish Downvotes. Noone can take your few more Hive on a post, but also noone cares because you will loose even more.
Maybe you get 1 Hive more because of a few less Downvotes but all your hive together ain't worth anything any longer with all the spammers farming with their bots and dumping them on the market lol
Great win. Then I rather take a few hive less because of evil Downvotes, but the hive are still worth anything.
so well put, thanks!!!
great take!
i will juts take this wave from this last week and see where i will end up. for now i feel quite good on blurt but i will keep posting here regardless.
the funny thing is, TODAY the custom friends lists on peakd started working again, which hasn't worked for me or my woman in months. it suddenly makes the people i care about more accessible again.
still i need to try something else in the long run ahaha
blessings to japan and thanks for sharing your thoughts!!
Leo will likely fork away and get to Blurt, like Blurt.Media did. It just makes better sense for real adoptors and Investors. The DV economics are all about total central ownership of the cryptocurrency... so yes, hive is a criminal enterprise on paper for any legitimate businessperson. It won't take long for Leo financial analysts to finger this out and move most operations to BLURT while likely keeping things going on hive-Engine, which is even more centralized but works correctly for the Leo Token.
The same goes for PeakD... they should offer a Blurt frontend... SOON!
:frank
wouldn't that be the day!
There have been whale wars and conflicts of personality resulting in unjust downvoting, but on the whole, I still believe it's an essential tool to keep spam and abuse at bay. The reputation system probably needs to be revamped so large stakeholders are no longer immune to criticism, and I say that as someone on the cusp of becoming an Orca myself. However, in my observation, the most vocal complaints about downvotes tend to come from bad actors. Not an accusations against you, but an overall impression from the wider conversations on the topic.
I am careful what I post about, so that I do not trigger automatic and trailed downvoting from someone I might get into an argument with on Hive. Some kind of control on the downvoters, perhaps in their reputation, would help curb capricious downvoting. I get the value against spam and plagiarism.
I'm not a huge fan of vote trails, up or down, because I support manual curation or HP delegation as better methods. However, downvotes abuse with trails of people unintentionally zeroing someone seem.especially egregious. That said, I write what I want, plain and simple.
Thank you for sharing that insightful comment. I am quite happy the more opinions I can gather on this matter from ALL points of view and different people, what they see and how they feel. It is the only way to really learn, which is exactly why free and open discourse has to be the norm.
Blessings!
It was a real shame what happened to Tribe Steem Up - that was a super turbulent time. I headed to Blurt for a while but found it hard to connect to anyone and everyone just seemed to be moaning about Hive non stop so I couldn't find any decent content.
The DV system is imperfect but I have found it has settled a lot and is helping moderate bad players such as vote farming, plagiarists and so on - it's an endless fight really and so far no one has found a better system to do this. There's still a lot of unreasonable rewards going to people for dubious reasons which I find quite unpalatable but there are quite a few people trying to reward good quality content.
I have to agree with a lot of what @selfhelp4trolls says too. There's some really good pockets of people here.
I also had to laugh at his comment about the cabal being socially awkward people with anger issues 😂 There's certainly a ton of people with issues here - hey it's almost like the real world.
I do wonder what would happen if a TSU like community started here again now. I haven't seen DVs for disagreeing with content itself for a long time eg vaccines - but then I don't get involved in drama if I can help it.
Perhaps I'm still under Hives spell - not as much as I used to be, but I do enjoy my community here, particularly the global gardening community where I have had some beautiful interactions and am loving watching blossom and grow. I feel like I am positively contributing in that way and like the real world itself, positive action is the arena I like to play in.
This.
And it actually also incentives to stake up and take your part in the decentralised selfregulation mechanism.
Or just complain and cancel the decentralised selfregulation mechanism all together, so just even more lands at unreasonable places? Which will incentive and attract more of the same bad behaviour and even more bad actors. Which is especially hardcore on an anonymous platform where you are also incentivised to just create a new account and persona after you scam burned your old..
@paradigmprospect
so be it, let it burn down then. if the network cannot survive the voluntary act of people leaving it would only be further proof that the whole system was kept alive through subsidies and propaganda only.
i may be wrong but it seems to me you act as if hive is the only place and option we will ever have, which I used to believe to some extent, but now realize is just a typical justification to keep things stale and stagnant by binding the energy of those who want a better system here where the BS keeps on happening.
as I eluded to in the other reply: an overriding downvote function cancelling a multitude of other people's voices and curation rewards through a single large stakeholder is NOT a decentralized self-regulation mechanism. These downvotes make it apparent that they are not about an educational discourse for everybody top learn from, but a power grab and maintaining that power by those so early they might as well have been part of the planning team from the beginning.
I liked this place because I have some dear friends on here, most of which have been terrorized out for sharing their views over the years, and I miss them. Just like FB this is not a place I want to build on. I stay here because I yet have some friends on here whose work I cherish and who I like to have a connection to, and because thus far I could speak sort of openly without being nuked - partly because I minced my words which I feel ashamed about.
I also felt it important to bring up this tired old topic again we are all discussing here to give others the choice to better reflect on what they want to do. Had I had all this knowledge last year I would have never put any capital into hive at 15 cents.
I may also come back and become hive maximalist if things do change but I am no longer waiting for the cartel's power to melt, I long for a new and better playing field which is where my energy will go. Still looking for the best case against Blurt also, I am under no illusion that everything is just perfect there. But a lot of things are way more in line with what I hoped Hive to be(come).
We may just need a NEW dancefloor entirely.
I am also aware of the negative effect of perpetually splintering a once large and interesting community over more and more networks. That's why I really like what @agorise at blurt.media does, finding a way to unite different communities from different blockchains rather than subsidizing this overly tribal mentality of "THIS ONE PLACE IS THE BEST".
After all, we want to facilitate more interesting and enlightening communication between people who choose to engage in that communication, ideally between different networks.
Your argument reminds me of those people saying I have to go vote for the "alternative", trying to argue that if I don't go vote at all then the really bad players will get even more power and the only way to take the power back is to increase our involvement in their slave system. That is just plain wrong and exactly the reason the system keeps committing its crimes - people policing each other due to one of the prevailing myths of our age - namely to coerce each other to stay in a rigged game hoping its rules and mechanics would somehow change from the inside.
Things are seemingly more quiet than they were, but all it really takes to ramp up the censorship on this platform again is a concerted effort by the cartel with the majority of the stake once they get their marching orders for the next false-flag, "pandemic" or whatever else the gang has prepared.
I'd prefer to already be in a place that is actually prepared to defend people's voices when shit hits the fan again. And it will hit the fan rather sooner than later.
Why should the network burn itself down just because you want to abolish one of the most key mechanisms?
You act as if you can just magically manifest the perfect solution for everyone and are quite unthankful for what Hive as place and community has provided you with.
I wish you all the best and want to see some results in the future.
How about you directly magically manifest a perfect internet? Or maybe a perfect humanity if you are already doing.
I find it fascinating what you project on me and simultaneously how easy you feel disturbed. Maybe really go to blurt into the only uovote heaven with big centralised Downvotes 😂 eventually you will get it.
I don't care about all this whining stuff. Of all you guys who left because of "myyyy upvotessss". I have was harder stuff behind me, nearly died several times, nearly was killed several times. Appreciate that I can speak freely here about everything I want, because I don't make it dependent on votes. Every post here is uncensored on the Blockchain forever, even if every single account on the whole platform Downvotes these posts. ;) Just show me one other platform with this level of censorship resistance.
Just because you want rewards, and do not get any, does not mean noone can read the fucking post lol.
Also I vote and and unvote as I see fit. Maybe anarchy is too much for you?
I just upvoted so you will need longer for powering down all
LOL
;)
that is super cute ahaha, thanks!!
guess i just feel we could have some better infrastructure instead of waiting forever until some things change around here. but i have no solution yet so there is that.
alles liebe aus italien
I can't say I've ever self-censored and I've been downvoted by only one large account, but then, I suppose my stuff is lightweight and uncontroversial. I agree with Jacob that some sort of downvote mechanism is necessary to stop scammers but unfortunately, people being people, it's misused here and a lot of good writers have been driven off. I won't be moving to Blurt though. I've been here 8 years (yesterday) and all my friends are here. If I left, it'd be to give up writing altogether, not to go somewhere else.
well you are one of the reasons to keep my hive account up and running. i don't often catch up with you, but when i do it always puts a smile on my face.
I only read a little bit of this but enough to know that you're dead wrong on a lot of these issues.
First and foremost Blurt is not a valid alternative in any sense.
Everyone that heads over to Blurt tends to fit a very particular description.
People who have been downvoted here and are sick of it is the main thing.
They got all their users by harvesting the negative feelings of the hostile takeover or downvotes.
That's not a place that you want to be.
Blurt used a lot of this irrational emotion to justify things like hijacking the entire governance structure in a completely centralized manner. So you don't like downvotes? Blurt has a centralized downvote mechanic in which the owners of that network can simply ban any account from getting rewards. Again, it's like booting up a WEB2 social media account and making the claim that "this is more decentralized than Hive". It's not. There's not even any wiggle room for a debate to take place.
One thing that you are TOTALLY right about is that a lot of these big downvoters pretend like their downvotes are not politically motivated when they obviously are. And that's super obnoxious and frustrating to have to constantly deal with someone who's constantly acting in bad faith and never called out on it from people in their own camp.
The solution to this problem is not powering down and forfeiting all your strength... it's actually the opposite. Unless you believe that Hive is so far gone that we are in 51% attack mode and there's no way to fix the situation and it will only continue to decline... plus there needs to be a valid alternative (which there isn't).
If Hive was truly in a situation as bad as you thought it was a big successful fork would already exist that you could move on to. That fork does not exist. Blurt is garbage but if you want to learn that the hard way that's your business and your journey. My financial advice to you would be to not put any money into Blurt or Hive and just cross post content to both platforms. Going all in on Bitcoin is a valid strategy... and maybe one day you have fuck-you money where you could buy a couple million Hive and start flexing real power here.
The problem with that strategy is that we are at that time in the 4-year cycle in which this is likely the absolute stupidest time to employ it (Hive being at the bottom of the chart in terms of sats). Maybe you have some other moon-bag available that you're comfortable with.
Also it's a bad look to link to articles that use AI to create an echo-chamber argument.
I can just as easily tell AI to debate the other side of the issue.
thanks for the heads up. for now i am protecting my fiat investment after buying in at 15 cents, and moving to icp and gold rather than btc. that is a solid 80% gain or so.
as for blurt i have read that banning if accounts used to be the issue years ago but i shall see what i can find out.
in the end i would prefer learning from all this mess with the dpos chains and making something new, which at this time seems impossible unattainable but who knows.
seeing i miss most of my favorite bloggers from years past i no longer can tell people in ernest that hive is the place to be. and so why would i want to keep investing? DCAing a perpetual downtrend is not a good idea unless i am absolutely passionate about the project in the ling run. and somehow i get the feeling humanity can do better than this.
thanks for sharing your take man, even if you didn't bother to read all of it.
Sounds good although I would def add BTC to a gold/ICP bag.
Super risky not to have BTC in any bag honestly.
The entire institutional world is adopting it right now.
But yeah I'm sure you'll be fine.
hehe, still working on retrieving a forgotten memory from 12 years ago. if you know anything about THAT that would really help me out, lol.
buying btc at 150 dollars back then felt literally as stupid as forgetting the "open sesame" does today ahahaha. guess my life always has to be complicated.
thanks!
Einen guten remote viewer beauftragen und schauen was sich machen lässt
Deswegen tickt allgemein ja gerade die Elite aus. Es gibt eigentlich keine Geheimnisse mehr.
Man kann theoretisch die Epstein Liste remote viewen. Hätte ich die Kohle würde ich auch ein Team darauf ansetzen die Epstein Liste per remote viewing zu veröffentlichen, noch jetzt BEVOR sie allgemein veröffentlicht wird.
Wenn man dann die allgemeine Veröffentlichung irgendwann mal (in 10 Jahren?) Hat, dient dies als bester Beweis in der Realität für den Aether UND seine Möglichkeiten als die wIsSenSchAfT jemals liefern könnte UND WOLLTE.
jo, ich müsste halt bei null starten. mach ich immer so ahahahaha.
danke dir für den tipp!
die reihenfolge ist dann jetzt wie folgt:
klarträumen, psychedelics, remote viewing, hypnose, seelenschreiben, astral projection.
manmanman. wat würde ur-oma nur dazu sagen?
krasse zeiten man ahaha
Hahaah dieser Plan
Hab doch gesagt sollst dir einen suchen der das schon ordentlich kann^^ kannst ja vllt sogar Deal machen dass er nen kleinen Prozentteil deines geborgenen Stakes erhält, bei Erfolg eben
Dann haste auch nicht direkt so große Kosten im voraus für ne ordentliche Aktion^^
Ansonsten schieb auch mal Fliegenpilz Tee noch vorne mit bei deinem Plan mit rein ;)
Glaube Uroma war auch schon Medium bei den okkulten Thule sonst was Gruppen xD
Good Input
~3 dozen whales have controlled the platform (excluding the Founder's stake, which didn't actually exercise governance by witness voting to my knowledge) since it's inception, and still do so today.
This situation hasn't changed appreciably in ~9 years, and I don't expect it to barring the sudden realization that it's bad for their bottom lines, which I am intent on proving presently, should I survive long enough. As you point out the other platforms (including Golos and Whaleshares, I believe) that use this codebase aren't any better regarding this metric. This is the paste squeezed out of the tube, and we either scrub with it, or get another tube.
A 51% attack is when a malicious actor controls 51% of the network or more.
In most contexts it's a situation in which this person is double-spending coin and stealing.
Again, there is a very good reason why "another tube" does not exist.
It's because making another tube is not worth doing.
Because claims of centralization and corruption are in fact wildly exaggerated.
Anyone in the world can become a Hive whale at these prices.
There is no shortage of liquidity especially with futures markets in play.
The bridge remains thoroughly unburned.
But maybe you have a good example of a crypto network that's has a better track record than Hive.
For example: 1% of the Bitcoin wallets own 90% of the supply.
Is this a good target to shoot for?
If you want to claim that Hive is centralized then perhaps you could provide a target in which it is no longer centralized.
Or point to a single other network in this space that's doing a better job.
They circle in their self fulfilling prophecy logic
That's also why they complain about the centralization of stake while only powering down and helping the centralization of stake.
Great.
that does seem to be the case sometimes
very annoying
it is how it is
Or any ideas?
Incentives not clear enough?
Bitcoin appears so straightforward in comparison
But ok, new bitcoiner generation are also not how they used to be
We agree on some things, but our differing goals and understanding create some dichotomy between our positions. Whether the control of a network is malicious or not depends on whether one benefits or not, so that's subjectively determined by users of the networks. Whether one has control or not isn't subjectively determined, and that's all I can actually address.
Several platforms based on the code Hive uses do exist, but none of them are 'better' in terms of the performance of the platforms distributing economic resources to society. All of the platforms that attempt to create egalitarian economies that replace Web2 have failed, or are failing, for various reasons, and that includes Hive.
Sure. Anyone in the world can do anything, which is why everything is done by somebody. But the fundamental proposition of Hive is to prosper creators sharing media, not to create a financial elite that dominates the economy. Web3 isn't advertised to the world as a way for profiteers to become whales, but as a means for everyone to prosper across society by sharing the financial value of social media with everyone that creates it, rather than focusing that financial value on whales as advertising does on Web2.
This reveals that BTC has failed at replacing the legacy financial system with an economy that isn't controlled by banksters. Cryptocurrency that is simply a new way to create elites has completely failed to free society from that financial control.
The imposition of KYC on crypto is the imposition of identical control over crypto banksters have over fiat. However, Hive's use case, unlike BTC, wasn't to break the banks. It was to break advertising by replacing the economic structure that enabled platforms to reap all the financial value of social media by creating a mechanism enabling consumers to financially reward creators directly. The maintenance of the majority of stake by the whales simply replaces the profiteering of Web2 through advertising with extraction of inflation from the rewards pool that DV's prevent from being widely distributed.
This is why Hive is failing, why user retention is abysmal. This is why platforms attempt to implement this proposition without replicating the vectors of control of distribution of rewards, why Blurt doesn't have DV's. But, as you pointed out in a different comment, Blurt instead has enabled the principals to unilaterally manage users and stake via a different mechanism(s), and my interactions with Blurt principals have not produced substantive discussions regarding that, because they devolve into ad hominems, as shown in this thread.
User retention is a reflection of the utility of Hive to the vast majority of people, whom are not retained, because Hive does not deliver a fair distribution of rewards to creators as it proposed to do. Hive replicates the advertising mechanism focusing financial value on a plutocracy via different mechanisms. Plutocracies cannot avoid capture by whales. Whether that is considered a bug or a feature depends on whether you are a whale.
This
I'm doing that right now by being careful how I comment on this post. I had an argument about self-censorship, and how it affects content, with one of our boy kings. That argument seems to have knocked me out of curation rings, big ones. In perpetuity it seems, too. Not a good look for Hive, but also not a good reason for me to flee altogether. Hive is just another of our made up worlds. We can fashion as we will. I don't think it has to be perfect, humanity and all.
I am grateful blurt exists because I can get info there that is no longer being posted here, except by accounts that either tolerate the downvotes (might even wear them proudly), or burn or decline their rewards. Kenny's banner does tell it truly. Here's a little innovation on his words: woe be to those who post criticism of hive anywhere on planet earth, especially blurt. Ya gotta watch your back, even there.
Anyhoo, you have my support in whatever you choose to do.
Slowly everyone is getting Demonetized and Downvoted on Hive.
You can earn much more on Youtube and X these days.
I discovered Blurt first before stumbling on Hive. It's actually through Dtube that I learnt about Blurt, Hive and Steem through the sign up options.
At that time, Hive seemed to be the best route to explore for me given its story and proposed potential resonated more to me than the other two. I think there's an actual shot for Hive becoming a sustainable and thriving ecosystem for creators, builders, investors etc. It has the capabilities for that but when I look at it from a realistic perspective now, I'm not always so sure. Humans are messy creatures who'll rather piss on the bowl they've already made use of instead of leaving it for others to also make use of when they're done for.
But I do echo what valued-customer mentioned with regards to the oligarchy eventually not wielding much power as they do now. Networks can be incredibly resilient, outflux and influx are constant processes, old gives way to the new, etc.
I think you could still be here while also being on Blurt, becoming multi-dimensional/platform is a good choice to make as I'm also beginning to understand its value. I will check up on Blurt again and wish you all the best in whichever direction you choose to pursue :)
aye, going with what my intuition says. hive has been amazingly important for me over the years, building networks and even meeting some in real life.
but ever since discovering icp i have been dwelling on how to make a better network architecture. and blurt seems to do some things i really like.
that said, now that the peakd following filters work again i have an easier time catching up with the people i care about on here. time will tell what i do
i will not convert hive to gold or fiat when we hit 5 cents, so we'll see what happens.
thanks for your take!
Right. I think things could be better in many fronts, the ideal or rather end state of a sustainable architecture isn't built yet. But we may get there soon with more iterations.
Same here too, maybe covert some to HBD when market pumps higher later this year but definitely not fiat lol.
You're most welcome :)
well, gldt on icp allows for holding physical backed gold tokens which is definitely preferable to fiat. if we get a major market crash i feel well positioned.
if not and alt cryptos go into a late bull finally, i am not so well positioned but oh well.
i am becoming ever more obsessed with "more iterations". maybe something groundbreaking will come out of it, taking into consideration all the comments and opinions on this post alone.
thanks man, blessings to you
Thanks for the voice of reason takhar!
You're welcome, good to hear from you :)
check Blurt.Media
use common sense and I believe you will see how disfunctional a DownVote button is. It's just a bad way for deviant people to exert some controls on others. Not a great way to Socialise.
🤬
hiveD
with the hammer, everythis must be a nail ;bacon
Nun - ohne nun viele Worte zu nutzen um mich zu erklären, wieso ich all technischen Hintergrund von Hive super finde:
Ich finds super, wenn du dich einfach mitteilst, dich nicht selbst zensierst, und einfach du bist :)
Und vielleicht kriegst du mal weniger Votes, oder mal ein Downvote, oder was auch immer, solange du dich einfach mitteilst, finde ich erfüllt Hive seine Hauptaufgabe der Zensurfreiheit und impliziert damit auch für mich die Selbstentfaltung. Auch wenn es an der Oberfläche von Hive - ob auf peakd oder egency - der Beitrag versteckt aussehen mag, weil ein kleiner grauer Balken ist und keine Fotos oder Beschreibung von Posts gesehen werden, kann man trotzdem mit einem Klick direkt auf dem Post sein und sich durchlesen.
Ich kann die Frustration nachvollziehen, weil ich selbst auch hin und wieder Gedanken davon habe, dass ich mich nicht mitteilen dürfe. Doch das beziehe ich dann nicht auf die Hive Plattform, sondern hinterfrage mich selbst, was mich dazu veranlasst solches zu denken, ob es aus der Kindheit ist oder gerade Realität. In den meisten Fällen ist es einfach irgendein Muster von früher. -Was nicht bedeutet, dass man mal durch wenige Erfahrungen geht, wo es wirklich "lebensbedrohlich" sein kann, sich gerade komplett mitzuteilen, in Extrembeispielen mit kp Polizei oder sonst was.
Hab mich auch viel zurückgehalten die letzten Monate, ist auch viel passiert - tut es immer. Also lerne ich gerade mich wieder zu öffnen und einfach wieder raus in die Welt zu gehen anstatt mich selbst zu zensieren aus Angst was falsches zu machen oder zu tun oder aus Angst vor ungewollten leidvollen Erfahrungen.
Ach und gleichzeitig hilft mir Hive dann wiederum, alles an Informationen, die aufgesaugt habe, einfach aufzuschreiben, loszulassen, offen für Neues zu sein.
Nun - das sind meine Gedanken, was mich so direkt triggert.
Die ganzen Background Infos über die Funktion der Plattform kenne ich alle, dafür habe ich Hive weise ausgewählt, wo ich mich mitteilen möchte, und irgendwie triggert mich das null um zu erklären wie die Plattform funktioniert und ich sie genau deswegen schätze. - mit den Downvotes, mit den Leuten, die mehr Geld haben als ich und mich deswegen mich mit höherer Power downvoten können oder mich mit ihrer Power unterstützen können - wofür ich ultra dankbar bin.
Beste Grüße
und ich freu mich auf deine kommenden Posts ^-^ dann hat dieser Post wohl doch geholfen, dass du dich nach Außen traust - somit hat er auch seine Funktion erfüllt :P und wir dürfen weiterhin von dir lesen
Yeah. 2-3 very angry and jealous whales have been downvoting me for over 2 years now. So I sold all my Hive and bought Bitcoin, Blurt, Pepe, XRP, Tron and a little HBD that I slowly convert to Bitcoin and Blurt. You can still earn some Layer 2 coins here with hashtags .... #meme #pepe #tribes #pob #sports #cent #waivio and more and convert them to Bitcoin and Blurt on Hive-Engine.com and add to BeeSwap Liquidity Pools to earn more Bitcoin - so I'll keep posting here .... but Blurt is 100 % better for blogging.
I often find some useful tips in your comments.
Thanks, and I think that I will need to check BeeSwap..
By the way, what pair are you using for BTC?
SWAP.BLURT : SWAP.BTC
https://beeswap.dcity.io/pools/add?pool=SWAP.BLURT:SWAP.BTC
are you on blurt?
News to me too!
holy sh!t even I knew this... : /
ahahahaha what a surprise that was just now looool
what a schizo situation ahahahaha
blessings brother!