Not all vaccines are good, but I think that people that are opposed to mandatory vaccines should spend some time thinking and learning about group immunity, as well as the diseases that vaccines protect us from.
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Mandatory vaccination is a war crime under the Nuremberg code. If there is no informed consent, it can have no legitimacy, since consent and mandatory are mutually exclusive.
Haha, sorry. Just so funny. I love your argument? I needed a good laught. A baby can't blow it's own nose. It is mandatory to help your baby breath. Is that a form of torture? My son would tell you it is. A baby can't concent to anything , it is your job as a parent to protect to do your best to keep it alive. In in my opinion that includes infectious diseases. No one can force you to believe in science. But maybe we should. I am going create a vaccine for it.
Do you really think that I'm saying that babies can consent? You are not skilled, at all, in the art of debate, or the knowledge of science to which you so readily attempt to appeal. Science is a useful tool to those who understand it. Blindly adhering to indoctrination is not science or even logic.
If you are ever interested in learning your way out of the mind prison you've allowed yourself to be put in, you might start with the Trivium, the Quadrivium, and a course or two in biochemistry and biophysics.
In the crazy world it is hard to know who to trust, but I just don't understand why people have so much fear. I will investigate trivium and quadrivium, because I am not familiar with them. There are people that lie with science and statistics but for the most part the acidemic community uses checks and balance that are designed to mitigate misinformation. Unlike this topic.
People have fear from lack of knowledge. Knowledge brings empowerment and the ability for self determination, and diminishes fear.
Please do check out the Trivium and Quadrivium. Beware of the manipulations of the Trivium used to alter it's function from a way to derive truth from the senses and logic. The Neo-Platonists manipulated it to create a theistic, authoritarian control structure, and the Prussian school remade it to create willing soldiers. Wikipedia is also infested with this manipulation.
The ideas of the Trivium and Quadrivium need to be taken in order to arrive at the truth, much in the same way that there is an order of operations for math. Speaking of math...
The order, as I have found useful for understanding the world, is Trivium: grammar, logic, classical rhetoric, and the Quadrivium: math, geometry, music, and astronomy. Separated or taken out of order, they can be easily manipulated.
Academia is filthy with conflict of interest, appeal from authority, appeal to popularity, and the genetic fallacy. I find the best way is to learn the basics of intellectual self defense and interpret the data as best one can.
One of the most useful tools I've employed is a continuing attempt to try to prove myself wrong, as I find it too easy to simply dismiss the arguments of others. Dismissal, without understanding is an all too common occurrence with the online chaos, where misinformation is rife, and there is no real way to determine the sincerity of the interactions had. Don't believe everything you read, in fact, doubt everything until it is understood at a fundamental level.
Trust yourself, but first make sure you are someone whom you CAN trust.
I suggest checking out my previous post about the corruption of modern science that includes interviews with people near the top of the system who openly admit that the system is totally corrupt and deliberately misleading everyone for financial gain.
There is no such thing as group immunity and vaccines don't protect anyone. That being said, the propaganda is understood. "Herd" immunity doesn't apply through artificial means also. You can be protected for a lifetime if you acquire the disease normally, without artificial stimulants. Otherwise, you are causing lifelong problems that are worse than the disease itself.
Hahaha
Appeal to ridicule, now that's original.
It would benefit you to learn more about this issue.
Sorry, I just think it is halerious. I can't help but laught. Are they doing it so they can take your guns? Is the world flat? I am sorry again, I don't mean to insult your intelligence, do you really think that vaccines are bad? I don't know why people think that opinions are factual. When I had my son I was very scared that vaccines were going to hurt him in some way, so I did my personal due diligance and the benefits of vaccines out weighed the cons. I won't change anyone's opinion on social media, but I hope that someone that is reading this becomes more sceptical of the information that they consume. I think that the world would benefit from a deeper understanding of statistical thinking. Everyone should be critical of what they read, especially the information that confirms our own beliefs. Unfortunately, I have never read a convincing aregument againt vaccines that Is based on fact that has been through the peer review process. There are no doubt some concerning things about vaccines, but think about the disease they are protecting you from. Just so you know a baby can die from the flu. Vaccines are one of the reason infant mortality has improved in the last 100 year. Medical science is not law, but for me it is better that random opinions on the internet, or small poxs.
I know for a fact that vaccines are more dangerous than they are beneficial. Do your research before you bring your appeal from authority, and your ad hominem attacks. Using insults does not make you intelligent or right on this subject.
I've studied this subject for years after being damaged by a vaccine.
For someone who can't spell for their life, you sure do like to insult people of whose intelligence you have not even the vaguest notion. Every statement you've made further demonstrates how little you understand about this subject, and how comfortable you are to put people's lives at risk to defend your indoctrination.
Sanitation and hygiene are responsible for all of the success you credit to vaccination. Please, for the sake of those who depend on your limited knowledge to survive and be healthy, go back and do your reading, and do more than read the government propaganda and corporate advertising.
If you're interested in an intelligent conversation, please bring more to the table than the same old indoctrination. If you agree with most people, you're usually wrong.
None of this is my opinion. The Earth is demonstrably an oblate spheroid, hurtling and spinning through space. The state is demonstrably, continually, trying to expand it's power, and if they thought they could get away with it, would deprive us of the ability to defend ourselves, so we would be more dependent on the state for our life, liberty, and property. Do you really not know any of this?
There are technologies that are safer, cheaper, and easier for the individual to understand and use than the archaic, failed technology of vaccines. Blind faith in government or corporate interests is not a healthy way to proceed.
If all you've got for argument is propaganda, advertising and insults, then cease to pretend to argue, and please take all the vaccines that you can afford.
My bad, I was responding while driving. What about vaccines scares you? What damage did they do to you? The diseases that they protect us from are real and very dangerous.
Vaccines don't scare me. Being forced, by the unintelligent and uninformed, to inject poison into my body, is a violation of my natural rights.
The diseases they are supposed to protect us from are real, and sanitation and hygiene have already done the job, without mass casualties.
Did you even understand my comments? Repeating myself is a waste of my time. Learn the subject or suffer the consequences of your ignorance.
I pity anyone unfortunate enough to be dependent upon you.
When you hear about outbreaks of diseases like measles, what do you think?
There was recently an outbreak in Minnesota that was made far worse by the density of unvaccinated children. Two doses of the measles vaccine is reported to be 97% effective in heading of the disease. That's according to the CDC. I am going to take a look at trivium and quadrivium.
When I see a measles outbreak in a fully vaccinated community, it tells me that vaccines are completely ineffective.
Never trust the CDC to provide the truth.
You are funny. You ought to take some of your own advice. You say people ought to be more sceptical of the information that they consume? Lol. You like government, don't you? They are the biggest purveyors of lies and propaganda. Go back in history and educate yourself. And not the history taught in public schools.
Religion is better right? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The whole system is going to collapse if income inequality is not fixed. I was opposed to vaccines when my son was born I even told the doctors no. For me the dangers of vaccines are not worth the potential of disease or the population as a whole. If you look at the history of infectious deseases like small poxs in America you will hopefully see that "the baby doesn't have Its own immunity " doesn't pass the smell test. When small pox was introduced to the American Indians it spread so much faster then it did in Europeans. Why because they had absolutely no immunity. Europeans still got small poxs but a much lower rate since some of them developed immunity to it. Why do doctors not get sick all the time? Immunity. Your mother gives you immunity but it doesn't just poof, go away, come on. If it did you would see a huge spike in infant death at a certain age. Especially in formula fed babies.
If you can provide proof of herd immunity, then I will gladly examine it - according to the many doctors I have listened to on the subject, there is no proof the existence of herd immunity recorded in human history.
There was a study that was done in Japan that shows the benefits of community/ herd immunity.
https://oup.silverchair-cdn.com/oup/backfile/Content_public/Journal/cid/52/7/10.1093/cid/cir007/2/cir007.pdf?Expires=1501689772&Signature=bEDy9VvF-EYYGVcDFks44ycH8sdyChnjemqoibYQ0DyLk4oMMZVm2z-FlZAzKEo3BcyCHBNCNeHuYqiEyjdqR9p5PI1lkzUoqNUN~38lqaZpAaP~DyhD-XlCTOhfitD2HOMPJly9Ge2jnqWxLRGaETMHWpNfKKaYJUI6GyX0pd3IIoXopAT~PV-r7jJFPLRnBm2msjeCkHQkghoS6a767Zj73CaktF4C1BZlsdBozrsxMgKTbpK2c~tAo4z0Y-rDP3oLBzTqfXI9qel3vnBexnBToAOpjuaGf15WoFmD6ZO5VmNbkS8ediWjoJSNfJ7gTdfBJ5ZRJFV~vbXxEvmP6g__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIUCZBIA4LVPAVW3Q
Studies notwithstanding, we have seen, recently, measles moving through fully vaccinated populations. Herd immunity from vaccines is a farce. It sounds good, to some, when authority says it, but that doesn't make it so.
I've never heard of 'herd immediately'. What is 'herd immediately'?
Have you ever heard of cherry picking?
I didn't mean to upset you with a typo.🙂 I think you knew what I meant, but maybe I am wrong. I fixed it for you. Where and when was the outbreak you speak of? It is not impossible to have deseases spread in a vaccinated population. Just a lot less likely.
Texas, California, et cetera, look it up. It's not difficult. It becomes more obvious by the comment that you have not done the work to understand this. I am not getting paid to protect the lives of you or anyone else who spends their time denying that vaccines do not work as intended or advertised, and that they cause injury at far too high a rate, with no recourse left to the damaged.
As the linked paper states in it's opening phrase - there are several interpretations of the idea of 'herd immunity' - so that immediately means there is room for confusion when the idea is discussed:
Obviously there are millions of people on Earth who speak about these subjects, so it is not really possible to take into account every interpretation and every application of the phrase that has ever been uttered. However, in my experience, it has been fairly common to hear the phrase used as a way to suggest that entire populations can be protected from disease as a result of a certain percentage of individuals receiving vaccinations - including those who are not vaccinated. In other words, there is an inference of a magical ability for real immunity to develop even in those who are not vaccinated - hence 'herd IMMUNITY' as opposed to 'herd exposure reduction', which would be the more accurate phrase to describe the type of result described by the study on the Japanese population that is referenced.
Having looked through the actual paper that is referenced, it is clear that they are not describing a total immunity to disease (even among the unvaccinated) as a result of sufficient vaccination, rather they are simply describing that the disease incidence is reduced enough as a result of vaccination, that transmission is reduced in general and so the unvaccinated also benefit.
I am not disputing that this is a likely outcome of a mass vaccination program and I don't think that the doctors that I am referring to would dispute that either.
So to reiterate, my conclusion here is that the term 'herd immunity' is misleading and commonly misused - usually to promote vaccination programs.
For a variety of Doctor's comments on vaccine science (who are exposing commonly denied aspects of the situation), I suggest listening to the ones in my earlier post on vaccines and vaccine injury.
I may be wrong but I think that some people use heard immunity as a reason not to vaccinated. My kid won't get that polio since no one get polio.
Well, if herd immunity is a useful 'thing', then why not make use of it's alleged benefits? It is surely an unwise action to risk vaccine injury to protect against an illness that you are already safe from due to 'herd immunity'.
I suggest reading about the history of the development of the polio vaccines - Maurice Hilleman made clear that it is likely that the process caused a cancer epidemic that we are experiencing now and also may have been responsible for bringing HIV to America.
I think everybody should be opposed to 'mandatory' vaccination. As soon as the government starts forcing jags parents lose what little control over their kids development/healthcare that they have. Scary thought! What happens if the next vac they bring out is one that the majority dont believe is appropriate? Too late by that stage. Gives free reign to do anything they want with the jag (chemical sterilisation, rfid chips etc etc). Horrifying to think what the long term consequences would be.
Funny thing, the people that decide not to vaccinate have usually done more research into side effects/ dangers to come to that conclusion, whereas vaccinators will generally (and i do say generally, as im sure alot also do read up) will go along with the doctors recommendations. People are becoming more clued up, so the old 'spend some time thinking and learning' rhetoric doesnt cut it anymore.
I think the biggest danger is the pseudoscience you find on the internet. I find it almost impossible to tell who is projecting opinions as facts.
It is impossible to see immunity. All you can do is test an outcome, like someone getting a disease. The more people that make the choice to not vaccinate their kids the higher the chance your kid is going to get a disease, as well as his classmates that may have gotten the vaccine.
We are looking at a very dangerous future if we continue down this anti vaccine road. Expecially if we deny climate change at the same time.
Maybe the anti vaccine campaign is the worlds way of vaccinating against humans.
A pilot study from a couple of months ago showed increased risk of morbidity among vaccinated children as compared to unvaccinated. You might be forgiven for assuming that regularly studies are done to compare the health of vaccinated children to unvaccinated, but in reality that has never been publicly done until recently.
http://www.cmsri.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/MawsonStudyHealthOutcomes5.8.2017.pdf