We Talk Friday
(WTF)
This is a semi-regular series that I will run on Fridays to hold discussions on a current topic from the week gone. The aim is to keep them light and conversational, though some might be heavier - regardless of the content topic itself though, just have some fun engaging and discussing with whoever happens to put in the effort in the comments section below.
We Talk Friday Ep. 19: Recognised Relationships
Imagine someone has a partner, a boyfriend, girlfriend, wife or husband - and they want to break up wand say to the person, "This isn't working, I won't to be alone, I don't want to share the same space as you" and then rather than letting them go on their way, the person says...
No. You can't break up with me. You have to live in my house and by my rules.
Do you think it appropriate?
Do you consider it an abusive relationship? Do you think the person who wants to leave should keep trying to leave? How far do you think they should go to obtain their freedom?
A lot of countries are jumping on the "Recognise Palestine" bandwagon now, but being naïve, I have never understood why they weren't recognised before. If a group of people want to break away from another group, shouldn't they be supported? Maybe if this was done a long time ago, perhaps there would be less problems now.
Maybe there would be more.
All of these border and national disputes are pretty infantile - they are like brothers sharing a room and running a piece of tape down the middle that neither can cross. It could be at some point, that humanity wakes the fuck up enough to stop caring about imaginary lines in the sands and realise that we are better off working for common goods for all of humanity - to increase wellbeing across the board.
But in order to do that, we'd have to give up our cherished and meaningless identities, like our nationality, and perhaps even our language. People hold onto their language as if it is important, but really, it doesn't matter what we speak, as long as we are able to communicate effectively for interpersonal understanding. Technology is already taking down a lot of the language barriers that existed until very recently, and in the next decade, I suspect that there won't be a reason to deny someone a job because they don't speak the language, because everyone will be able to communicate effectively.
Does that scare you?
It scares many. Because while all can see the upside of being able to talk to anyone, people also know how close their mother tongue is to them, and how they identify with it and often, feel superior because of it. Especially in the English speaking countries, there is an expectation that everyone should speak English locally. But this isn't the case in Europe for instance, where there is little expectation that someone visiting has to speak French, or Finnish, or Italian. Instead, they will do their best to help, in whatever language they can - even if it is gestures and noises.
My first girlfriend in Finland didn't speak much English, and me managed for a few months in her broken English, my broken Finnish, and a dictionary. However, she wanted to improve her English for exams, so we switched to English only and a year and a half later, she started studying international business, in English at university. After she graduated, she got a job in IT and then, wanted to breakup with me.
I said no. I cited all the things I had done for her in order to get her into school and supported her financially through university. I brought up how I helped her get promoted at her job, and how I had done all the work to renovate our apartment. I said, she can't leave and has to live in my house, by my rules.
Of course I fucking didn't do that.
After a discussion, as soon as I realised it didn't matter what I said, she still wanted to leave, I gave her a kiss and said, okay. And she left that night. Then we started sorting out me buying her share of the apartment, and separating our stuff and splitting apart insurances and whatnot, and we went our separate ways. Still friendly, still able to talk to each other, still civil, but separate.
And while this might seem far less complicated than geopolitics, it really isn't at the core. If people were civil and acted with love, if the goal of all society was human wellbeing, if people just grew the fuck up, a lot of the problems we face in the world would disappear, and we would have a lot more resources to spend on doing awesome shit instead.
Instead, we keep fighting for our misplaced identities.
In service to making someone who doesn't care about us, a little more money.
Taraz
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this sentence best describes the state of the world. The big ones, who hold the levers of power in their hands, by forcing certain conditions (blackmail, wars, trade), force the little ones to work to their own detriment, and for the benefit of those big ones, who are getting richer and richer.
I imagine such a situation in a love relationship (where there is actually no love), when the little one (the weaker one, and most often the woman) is conditioned to live under the conditions of the big one (the stronger one).
There is no luck there... In the eyes of that little one, you can almost always see despair and hope at the mention of liberation and escape...
How can there be love in such an environment?
The world is an absolute shambles, where we have made ourselves victims, by trading our responsibility for convenience.
I like how you compared a relationship breakup to global conflicts. It actually makes a lot of sense. If someone wants to leave, they should be free to, whether it’s a partner or a group of people. Forcing someone to stay just creates more pain. The part about language and identity hit home, too. We hold on to these things so tightly, even when they divide us. Imagine what we could achieve if we focused more on working together than on what separates us.
However, I must say that there are some separations that hurt to the bonemarrow, particularly the one invested in heavily. Like in your own case, I would fault the lady. I don't think she ever loves you. She just sees you as an opportunity to further in her career. So it is not a lie to say that she used you. Why did she go before getting what she wanted? Why wait until she is ready and independent before taking the decision? Another angle we have to look at it is that she is not meant for you and I believe what we happen we certainly happen and if all the country in the world could do as you say without forcing any relationship or engagement the better for all of us. This war of a thing might become things of the past.
We would be an incredible species - instead of one who has a lot of potential, but doesn't live up to it.
I don't think so. She had no idea what the relationship would be when we met, or decided to get together and live together. She was a little younger than me and this was her first proper relationship. As her life position changed, so did her ideas about the world and she probably wanted to see what else was out there. She is one of the nicest people I have known :)
I'm glad you see her the way she is and the fact that she has been a blessing to you which you confirm.
If people could just be civil and let go of their egos, half the world’s conflicts (personal or political) wouldn’t even exist. But instead, we fight to protect our false sense of identity, often handed down by systems that benefit from our division. Thanks to the Hate Economy.
Ironically, in Treaty of Westphalia, humans decided to draw borders after the thirty years long war in order to bring peace 🙃.
And, the way you handled that breakup reflects the kind of emotional intelligence we desperately need, not only in relationships but in societies too.
Yes. This is very right. People are people’s problem’s. Ego posed unnecessary situations we shouldn’t be facing or hearing about, I pray we come to realize this as error and make corrections in our thinking.
I hope so. Because, I strongly believe, deconstruction of rigid ideas is the only solution left. Otherwise, we are born selfish, brutal, and narcissist. We just learn the ways of good manners or at least we try to pretend.
The hate economy, driven by media outrage porn.
Borders rarely bring peace for long, do they? Every border creates an imaginary line to protect. The more division, the more energy needed to hold the divide.
Thoroughly agreed!
In the past, they gave religion to the common man-something to live and die for-while the big bros pursued their own interests. And when that began to erode, they introduced the concept of nationalism, drawing artificial borders to keep the masses divided and obedient. The faces change, but the formula remains. Give people something to worship, so they never question who truly holds the power. In doing so, even the layman has forgotten that we all bleed the same. Everyone is just ready to kill or to die for the piece of land.
Although i am not planning to have a relationship like that. As it can be so heartbreaking, to have someone i love so much, and want to spent my life with, say to me, she doesn’t want to be with me, or not interested again in the relationship we have build for years.
Yes, I will definitely be hurt, and some ransom thoughts will be going through my mind, if something like that happens, But i will never stop her. If leaving me will be her decisions, and something that will make her happy. It is freedom and as far as I know, love or relationship isn’t by force.
I will just accept my position in the person’s life, and know we were not meant to be together.
Anything we got by force will needs that same force to stand still, and I can not fight or argue everyday to keep a love one.
Argument or fight are the forceful things I know in a relationship, and if i should subscribe for a relationship like that, truth be told, it will somehow affect my health and i wouldn’t want that.
I believe that freedom should be all giving at any point in time. So, she said, she doesn’t want it again, I talk and talk trie’s to see reasons, and it doesn’t still work. I will give freedom. I can not keep anyone within me as a prisoner.
Thank you.
Force never works long-term - it just creates more problems. Whether in a relationship like a marriage, or between countries.
Dreaming doesn't cost anything, heh, heh, heh. Changing patterns of living together that have become genetically ingrained is impossible unless there is a brutal reset.
We have not become aware, despite the last two world wars, of the damage that military technology can do today. We are dragged along by what we believe to be ‘true’; to each his own convictions.
The Palestinian case is pathetic, let alone other war situations. Those who wield war power are obtuse, senile.
War makes money - that is all it is waged for.
The people who order war do so by calling identity in as support to convince the idiotic masses.
Definitely, Mr. Tarazkp,
In fact, I always say that every breakup puts us on the path to a new opportunity. Is to start choosing you.
Some people fear the breakup so much, they don't take any opportunity.
It takes a few months and even a small incident to discover a person's true character. The saying, "It's possible to detect all illnesses in the body with a single drop of blood," is so true. Spending time with someone who exploits you, who is there for you when you need them, or who comes to you when you need them, is neither wise nor conscientious. If you persist despite such adversity, it becomes clear that you are just like them.
I don't think people can exploit others in relationships like many seem to believe. We each make our decisions and we judge their character - they are just being who they are. If they exploit us, we didn't judge well.
That's too bad she put you in that situation, but you seemed to handle it well. I was in something like that, but I was on the other side. I knew it had to be a clean break with little or no communication otherwise we would keep repeating the same cycle. Probably one of my biggest regrets is that I had to do it that way.
It was okay. I was upset for a couple weeks since we were together about 6 years, but it was for the best and it was time we both moved onto other things. I generally think communication is better than ghosting, but there are some crazies out there!
It wasn't a total ghost, but I had to be cold which isn't usually like me otherwise I knew I would break down and change my mind.
I totally agree, no one should be forced to stay in any relationship, personal or political. Recognition and respect for freedom are basic human rights and clinging to borders or language shouldn’t get in the way of that. We need more empathy, less control.
I don't know about needing more empathy as much as we need more sensibility.
Well that's true we need sensibility
It seems that for a while you lived my dream- I wanted an international relationship in the past. But neither my english or my finances were good enough to make that happen. Now I think that I will no longer try long distance thing. It is too complicated.
I wonder if people would be less divided if everyone spoke one language. Most likely not. Humans would probably find something else to argue about.
Long distance never works. It is a pipedream.
The narcissism of small differences. We will keep dividing until all we are are individual atoms.
In any relationship, both partners ought to feel comfortable sharing their needs and wants without worrying about backlash or being manipulated. Particularly in a marriage, I think each of couples should have a private time for themselves in a week for a healthy marriage.
Yes. Something like this is going to make things beautiful for them, and for better understanding. Using myself as an example, I like it when someone i am in a relationship open up, and not hiding itself.
Private time as needed I guess. But not a lot of time just to wallow in self-pity! :)
I don't like girls who use guys to achieve their goals and then say goodbye.
nah, it wasn't like that. It was just time to move on for her.
I don’t like it either, but before it can even get to that, they will be a lot of signs, as red flags, which you should always watch if any.
This recognition of the Palestinian state and the rush to do so came at a very high price: genocide, famine, and thirst. Children are dying every day, if not from war, then from hunger.
You said that the rush to recognize a Palestinian state seems naive now, but I see it as inevitable. They had no choice, and if they had, they would have assured you they would not have done so. There has been tremendous international pressure recently, including from international organizations, because the situation in Palestine is catastrophic, and no rational, humane person would accept that.
I didn't say what you have written at all.
They could have done this in 1988. It isn't a rush.
I didn't mean to rush into it per se, but what I meant was that they wouldn't have done it in the first place, but the inevitability of the current situation drove them to do it.
Being in this kind of relationship is not something encouraging, i'm in relationship, but even if tomorrow something happen, I won't say the next thing is not to let my girlfriend go, so she should leave with me by my rules. It's as if you don't want to let go of the relationship,which means you still care, and if truly you care ,then you won't break up with your girlfriend in the first place. So you now giving rules of your girlfriend staying with you means you trying to cage her! I don't ever think I can leave that kind of life. Never.
Thanks for sharing though, I belief this will go along way and open other people's mind out there.
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I like there being a lot of different languages, kind of makes things more interesting, especially when you find words for concepts that don't exist in yours in some other language and can steal it. I feel a bit sad when I hear that languages are dying out.
I really wish I'd gotten into language learning a lot sooner than I did. And that I had actually done linguistics at uni instead of the courses I did do.
There are aspects of identity that are actually important (am reasonably but not completely certain that things like that feeling of purpose are part of it). Can't remember if it's the ego that usually causes problems as it's been a while since I looked this stuff up, or perhaps it conflated, but that fragile little bit of the psyche that tantrums when it's narrow minded world view is threatened and has to be "right" at any and all cost is definitely the bit that can be kicked to the kerb sometimes as that's the bit that seems to cause all the problems.
The beef between native Muslim and emigrated Jew is never going away. I feel bad for the families being used as pawn by rich nations squabbling over borders and canals and trade wars and nationalized terror programs.