Hello. I'm back after delving into the data set I downloaded some time ago. Again, I'm examining a period of just a single week, with my sample data being from the 18th of May, 2025, to the 24 of May, 2025.
Image composite completed in Photoshop by @holoz0r using Source 1, Source 2.
Introduction
The goal of this post is to see if posts of different lengths differ in their payouts. It is also to map the distribution of payouts based on word count. Does a high word count indicate a good post? In my human reading, no. In data? Let's find out.
I write this post as I interrogate the data, so you can also get a glimpse into my stream of consciousness and thinking.
First, we need to know what data is being examined:
Data about the data
Here is some overarching information about the data examined:
Data Point | Lower | Upper |
---|---|---|
Date | 18 May 2025 | 24 May 2025 |
Posts examined in period: 14,838
Authors excluded: hbd.funder, peak.snaps, ecency.waves
So, some quick stats:
Payouts
Total Payouts | Max Payout | Average Payout | Median Payout |
---|---|---|---|
$30,559.21 | $101.05 | 2.05 | 0.48 |
Word Counts
Total Word Count | Max Word Count | Average Word Count | Median Word Count |
---|---|---|---|
5,928,739 | 10,056 | 399.56 | 248 |
Insights
Pay Per Word
Pay Per Word
$0.0052
Yes, that's right, over the week under examination, half a cent per word was paid out on hive. When I was a professional writer, paid on a per word basis to write editorials, reviews and other content, my pay rate was typically 0.12AUD a word.
That was over fifteen years ago, and articles typically took an hour to go from concept to completion - sometimes with longer ideation periods, and for longer, more in depth articles, research took a manner of days.
The written media landscape has changed dramatically from those early days of the Internet however, and Hive, is of course, not those early days of the Internet. We are, Afterall, "web 3.0"
That pay per word is far from a guarantee. Just because I can type ninety or more words per minute, it is not absolutely no guarantee that I will "make" 0.45 just by typing for a minute.
That is because the reward pool is a dynamic, shifting thing. It depends on how many people vote, how they vote, and if there are downvotes. Its a complex thing, and nothing is yours until after the seven day period since it was originally posted has elapsed.
Nothing on Hive is a promise.
Above Average and Below Average Posts
Distribution by Word Count
In this section, I want to see the distribution of posts that are above and below the average word count and median word count.
In order to do this, I have created groups for the word counts. I did this with a simple conditional column in PowerQuery, with different increments of word count as the number of words increase in a given post.
Once groups are put together, this is what I get as a distribution (sorted by number of posts):
Word Count | Num Posts | Percent of Posts |
---|---|---|
< 250 Words | 3188 | 21.49% |
< 500 Words | 3145 | 21.20% |
< 50 Words | 2758 | 18.59% |
< 750 Words | 2020 | 13.61% |
< 100 Words | 1492 | 10.06% |
< 1000 Words | 920 | 6.20% |
< 1500 Words | 873 | 5.88% |
< 2000 Words | 243 | 1.64% |
< 2500 Words | 100 | 0.67% |
> 2501 Words | 99 | 0.67% |
As expected, the overwhelming majority, are between the median and the average. If we plot this on a chart, we might get a more meaningful curve of post length.
Most posts are above 100 words. Very few posts are above 2000 words. The most likely length of a post is between 101 and 499 words. What do you know, averages and medians work as they should!
If you prefer to see this distribution as a pie chart, because pie is delicious, here it is:
Now, how many posts (count and percent) are above / below average length?
Word Count | Count | Percent |
---|---|---|
Above Average Word Count | 5317 | 35.83% |
Below Average Word Count | 9521 | 64.17% |
And again, how does that look as a pie chart?
Distribution by Payout, and Word Count
Now is where we're going to get to some of the potentially deeper insights, and to answer an age old question, which I am sure we each have our own hypotheses on. Are longer posts better? By better, I am asking - do they get more of the rewards?
Data holds no lies, only in the way in which it is presented, so I am going to be as neutral as possible in presenting the data.
There's also some important points to consider about word count. I'm not excluding things like headers, code, and for non "English" posts, spaces do not appear as commonly - so posts written using Korean, Japanese, or Chinese characters are likely to have lower word counts, as they seem to contain less spaces overall.
Having said that, the bulk of posts on HIVE tend to be written in English or Spanish, and counting the spaces between words for these languages is a pretty reliable indicator of word count.
Anyway, data:
As a markdown table:
Word Count | Total payouts | Average Payouts | Median Pay Out | Highest Payout | Pay Per Word | % of Total Pay Outs |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
< 50 Words | $2,100.63 | $0.76 | $0 | $32.73 | $0.04 | 6.87% |
< 100 Words | $1,315.56 | $0.88 | $0.19 | $36.32 | $0.01 | 4.30% |
< 250 Words | $3,775.96 | $1.18 | $0.32 | $44.18 | $0.01 | 12.36% |
< 500 Words | $7,178.46 | $2.28 | $0.83 | $101.06 | $0.01 | 23.49% |
< 750 Words | $6,632.14 | $3.28 | $1.61 | $98.07 | $0.01 | 21.70% |
< 1000 Words | $3,934.36 | $4.28 | $2.51 | $49.52 | $0.01 | 12.87% |
< 1500 Words | $3,951.40 | $4.53 | $3.33 | $62.27 | $0.00 | 12.93% |
< 2000 Words | $1,064.70 | $4.38 | $3.09 | $45.80 | $0.00 | 3.48% |
< 2500 Words | $319.77 | $3.20 | $1.44 | $33.55 | $0.00 | 1.05% |
> 2501 Words | $286.23 | $2.89 | $1.81 | $25.48 | $0.00 | 0.94% |
I've highlighted average payouts so it is easier to compare against the median and highest payout for the given period for digestibility.
Longer posts tend to be rewarded more handsomely, but the pay per word drops as you add more words. The majority of payouts are in the categories above 250 words and less than 2000 words. Anything longer than 2000 words, people don't seem to have the patience for.
Also, importantly:
Payout Outcome | Count | % |
---|---|---|
Above Average Pay Out | 3642 | 24.55% |
Below Average Pay Out | 11196 | 75.45% |
Again, I want to see this data on a continuum to see how payouts correlate with post length, similar to the distribution of word count featured earlier in this post.
I am sure you don't want to see this by total payout only, so how about looking at it by average, and comparing it to the median for each category?
Add in the max reward for each category, and its an uglier chart:
It suggests that the "max" payments (ie, the most rewarded posts) have something new that I am going to introduce for the purpose of the discussion, which is "Reward Factor" this is the Max Rewarded post in a word category bucket, divided by the average reward in that category.
Therefore, we can, at least in terms of reward, consider "how many times better" that highest rewarded post was in that category than the average post. In my years of experience on HIVE, Post reward is not a direct indicator of quality, but a lot of people flock to it as such.
Reward Factor
Word Count | Max | Reward Factor of highest rewarded post | Average | Median |
---|---|---|---|---|
< 50 Words | $32.73 | 42.97 | $0.76 | $0 |
< 100 Words | $36.32 | 41.19 | $0.88 | $0.19 |
< 250 Words | $44.18 | 37.30 | $1.18 | $0.32 |
< 500 Words | $101.06 | 44.28 | $2.28 | $0.83 |
< 750 Words | $98.07 | 29.87 | $3.28 | $1.61 |
< 1000 Words | $49.52 | 11.58 | $4.28 | $2.51 |
< 1500 Words | $62.27 | 13.76 | $4.53 | $3.33 |
< 2000 Words | $45.80 | 10.45 | $4.38 | $3.09 |
< 2500 Words | $33.55 | 10.49 | $3.20 | $1.44 |
> 2501 Words | $25.48 | 8.81 | $2.89 | $1.81 |
On Average, the "Reward Factor" for the highest rewarded post is 25.07 across all the word count categories. Is that a fair distribution of the reward pool for the "average" authors?
Does a meritocracy award its best contributors 25 times more "stuff" than the average in other distributed systems or economies?
I suppose also, a better question is, are we rewarding the "best" content?
Bringing it all together
Overall Outcome | Count of Posts | % | Total | Avg | Max | Median |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Above Average Word Count and Above Average Pay Out | 2296 | 15.47% | $16,759.91 | $7.30 | $101.06 | $5.61 |
Above Average Word Count and Below Average Pay Out | 3021 | 20.36% | $2,323.77 | $0.77 | $2.76 | $0.46 |
Below Average Word Count and Above Average Pay Out | 1346 | 9.07% | $8,061.51 | $5.99 | $61.00 | $4.85 |
Below Average Word Count and Below Average Pay Out | 8175 | 55.10% | $3,414.03 | $0.42 | $2.76 | $0.08 |
I now want to take a look at the sample of the most rewarded users in each category.
Above Average Word Count, and Above Average Payout, sorted by Total Payout Top 30:
author | Posts Authored | Words Written | Total Payout | Sum of net_votes |
---|---|---|---|---|
coldbeetrootsoup | 2 | 1898 | $140.94 | 1784 |
tarazkp | 9 | 6756 | $134.98 | 3596 |
hanshotfirst | 4 | 2561 | $112.54 | 557 |
worldmappin | 7 | 4896 | $112.34 | 1808 |
bozz | 5 | 5513 | $106.22 | 2565 |
borislavzlatanov | 1 | 438 | $101.06 | 763 |
tattoodjay | 6 | 3675 | $100.18 | 2959 |
nurfay | 6 | 3110 | $85.82 | 4234 |
buttcoins | 2 | 1510 | $83.73 | 1415 |
avdesing | 6 | 7028 | $80.61 | 2415 |
dalz | 4 | 3675 | $76.83 | 1609 |
rehan12 | 3 | 2896 | $73.98 | 936 |
gooddream | 3 | 3374 | $73.44 | 938 |
danielcarrerag | 3 | 4714 | $73.26 | 410 |
papilloncharity | 5 | 2196 | $69.78 | 1597 |
jcrodriguez | 3 | 3311 | $69.71 | 889 |
sports.guy55 | 3 | 2938 | $68.34 | 632 |
networkstate | 3 | 4195 | $67.62 | 366 |
bemier | 6 | 7257 | $67.45 | 1820 |
incublus | 6 | 5960 | $65.91 | 2130 |
nathyortiz | 6 | 7250 | $65.42 | 500 |
splinterlands | 3 | 3121 | $64.16 | 1585 |
giathebao | 3 | 1973 | $64.11 | 670 |
aggroed | 1 | 1264 | $62.27 | 667 |
verbal-d | 1 | 532 | $61.76 | 346 |
elizabeths14 | 3 | 2094 | $59.76 | 1790 |
giuatt07 | 6 | 3923 | $59.37 | 556 |
solominer | 2 | 1143 | $58.81 | 696 |
dwayne16 | 7 | 3563 | $58.63 | 1147 |
josediccus | 6 | 4991 | $58.43 | 1649 |
Above Average Word Count, and Below Average Payout, sorted by Total Payout Top 30:
author | Posts Authored | Words Written | Total Payout | Sum of net_votes |
---|---|---|---|---|
pimp.token | 6 | 5304 | $12.52 | 1270 |
hivepakistan | 5 | 4371 | $12.06 | 1483 |
martinte | 6 | 8167 | $11.71 | 2868 |
stefano.massari | 5 | 5430 | $11.46 | 586 |
sw-kleymer | 14 | 11511 | $11.01 | 1007 |
borniet | 8 | 4632 | $10.93 | 978 |
kc6729 | 6 | 2981 | $10.81 | 132 |
omztech | 6 | 7046 | $10.22 | 2724 |
julianhorack | 5 | 4173 | $9.82 | 476 |
chinay04 | 5 | 3831 | $9.76 | 872 |
deeanndmathews | 5 | 5826 | $9.66 | 475 |
zain-ab001 | 5 | 3685 | $9.43 | 1515 |
elizabethbit | 5 | 2563 | $9.42 | 1082 |
osomar357 | 9 | 8517 | $9.15 | 837 |
kingsleyy | 6 | 3019 | $9.13 | 573 |
miguelgabriel-sw | 6 | 4035 | $8.95 | 538 |
el-panal | 4 | 3213 | $8.82 | 2305 |
curangel | 4 | 5574 | $8.81 | 941 |
jlufer | 5 | 3441 | $8.68 | 771 |
heyhaveyamet | 6 | 3891 | $8.59 | 679 |
kley-sw | 6 | 3687 | $8.58 | 440 |
daily-crypto | 4 | 1916 | $8.51 | 50 |
pocketechange | 4 | 2214 | $8.46 | 155 |
daily-photo | 4 | 4238 | $8.44 | 160 |
offia66 | 5 | 3331 | $8.37 | 638 |
akrros | 6 | 4527 | $8.32 | 476 |
adaezeinchrist | 6 | 3641 | $8.20 | 930 |
abdul-qudus | 4 | 2337 | $8.18 | 532 |
amjadsharif | 5 | 3364 | $8.17 | 225 |
joelibra | 5 | 2255 | $8.11 | 676 |
Below Average Word Count, and Above Average Payout, sorted by Total Payout Top 30:
author | Posts Authored | Words Written | Total Payout | Sum of net_votes |
---|---|---|---|---|
oflyhigh | 6 | 76 | $181.62 | 1551 |
daveks | 6 | 1002 | $98.29 | 2138 |
redditposh | 6 | 554 | $83.67 | 1691 |
poshtoken | 6 | 525 | $82.53 | 1653 |
ijelady | 5 | 1308 | $81.99 | 738 |
jychbetter | 7 | 112 | $63.54 | 1032 |
lordbutterfly | 1 | 264 | $61.00 | 456 |
bxt | 6 | 128 | $59.93 | 431 |
rivalhw | 6 | 42 | $59.22 | 716 |
mrspointm | 6 | 59 | $55.86 | 955 |
zhangyan-123 | 6 | 54 | $52.97 | 980 |
calebmarvel24 | 5 | 1005 | $52.33 | 571 |
alex-rourke | 4 | 641 | $51.68 | 810 |
claudio83 | 5 | 1071 | $49.22 | 866 |
grindle | 3 | 758 | $48.27 | 1341 |
kkarenmp | 7 | 2583 | $46.41 | 311 |
eliigonzalez | 6 | 1602 | $44.40 | 675 |
funworlding | 6 | 1525 | $44.34 | 126 |
restinpeace | 6 | 1352 | $44.31 | 106 |
youngartfair | 1 | 236 | $44.18 | 680 |
galenkp | 5 | 1627 | $43.93 | 1126 |
atyh | 6 | 774 | $42.87 | 786 |
thedistriator | 1 | 336 | $42.35 | 396 |
adelepazani | 6 | 1321 | $41.76 | 545 |
mahar26 | 10 | 2957 | $41.62 | 636 |
susanli3769 | 6 | 23 | $39.92 | 564 |
vesytz | 3 | 786 | $39.68 | 2062 |
atem.art | 4 | 489 | $38.39 | 700 |
monochromes | 6 | 2219 | $38.19 | 4087 |
pushtoken | 1 | 362 | $37.83 | 196 |
Below Average Word Count, and Below Average Payout, sorted by Total Payout Top 30:
author | Posts Authored | Words Written | Total Payout | Sum of net_votes |
---|---|---|---|---|
justmythoughts | 25 | 5724 | $19.36 | 905 |
nave7 | 18 | 381 | $18.48 | 378 |
krolestwo | 11 | 2308 | $16.18 | 499 |
erosyu | 6 | 1551 | $14.48 | 171 |
rainbowzhou | 6 | 57 | $14.09 | 220 |
new.things | 9 | 1537 | $13.64 | 714 |
sinelux | 6 | 2166 | $13.42 | 411 |
zimurenli | 5 | 46 | $12.75 | 164 |
gidlark | 6 | 947 | $12.51 | 316 |
scifimultiverse | 6 | 798 | $12.29 | 84 |
cryptounicorn420 | 6 | 1298 | $12.15 | 1456 |
williamyu | 5 | 1320 | $12.04 | 166 |
yumingli | 5 | 47 | $12.00 | 134 |
kawsar8035 | 15 | 3782 | $11.90 | 1722 |
toofasteddie | 6 | 681 | $11.70 | 458 |
ssekulji | 5 | 1130 | $11.42 | 296 |
improv | 5 | 1093 | $10.99 | 472 |
drlobes | 5 | 398 | $10.72 | 576 |
kachy2022 | 9 | 1017 | $10.48 | 202 |
teamukraine | 6 | 280 | $10.45 | 307 |
jeffspace | 5 | 176 | $10.37 | 164 |
flemingfarm | 6 | 634 | $10.35 | 931 |
radiogaga | 5 | 1318 | $10.30 | 322 |
nasseir | 16 | 2574 | $10.14 | 730 |
jasonmunapasee | 6 | 1378 | $10.12 | 1105 |
sunshinexu | 4 | 36 | $10.07 | 125 |
katerinaramm | 6 | 1132 | $9.42 | 639 |
felt.buzz | 11 | 1160 | $9.40 | 1321 |
zoricatech | 5 | 841 | $9.29 | 158 |
paty2005 | 6 | 198 | $9.21 | 376 |
Who are the "laziest" writers on HIVE? ie, who has the highest payout per word written?
I suppose you could also call this the "most efficient" category, top 30, sorted by pay per word.
author | Pay Per Word | Posts Published | Words Written | Total Payout | Total Votes |
---|---|---|---|---|---|
dengyanping888 | $3.34 | 1 | 1 | $3.34 | 71 |
emmali | $2.72 | 6 | 7 | $19.01 | 259 |
alpha-omega | $2.53 | 6 | 7 | $17.68 | 479 |
oflyhigh | $2.39 | 6 | 76 | $181.62 | 1551 |
susanli3769 | $1.74 | 6 | 23 | $39.92 | 564 |
rivalhw | $1.41 | 6 | 42 | $59.22 | 716 |
pepovelez | $1.29 | 1 | 1 | $1.29 | 26 |
cheva | $1.06 | 5 | 6 | $6.36 | 309 |
zhangyan-123 | $0.98 | 6 | 54 | $52.97 | 980 |
yellowbird | $0.97 | 3 | 4 | $3.89 | 140 |
mrspointm | $0.95 | 6 | 59 | $55.86 | 955 |
l337m45732 | $0.94 | 1 | 15 | $14.11 | 159 |
mrpointp | $0.81 | 2 | 18 | $14.50 | 250 |
lijans | $0.66 | 2 | 2 | $1.31 | 65 |
evahe | $0.65 | 6 | 54 | $34.94 | 2374 |
lovequeen | $0.65 | 6 | 56 | $36.18 | 748 |
illmaskmajor | $0.65 | 1 | 25 | $16.14 | 37 |
love5200 | $0.62 | 6 | 54 | $33.68 | 440 |
carolin77 | $0.58 | 6 | 54 | $31.50 | 432 |
nostalgic1212 | $0.58 | 12 | 63 | $36.41 | 914 |
jychbetter | $0.57 | 7 | 112 | $63.54 | 1032 |
deanliu | $0.51 | 1 | 26 | $13.32 | 178 |
aellly | $0.51 | 6 | 54 | $27.64 | 397 |
annepink | $0.50 | 1 | 19 | $9.56 | 129 |
bxt | $0.47 | 6 | 128 | $59.93 | 431 |
ailgoy | $0.44 | 4 | 36 | $16.00 | 373 |
abrockman | $0.43 | 2 | 34 | $14.63 | 424 |
marygong77777 | $0.41 | 7 | 70 | $28.45 | 303 |
sunflor | $0.40 | 6 | 54 | $21.45 | 243 |
bai123 | $0.39 | 3 | 27 | $10.66 | 122 |
Finally, because I am curious about myself during the period, my pay per word was $0.0087, a little bit above average for posts overall.
I realise this post is long and will be a lot to take in, but for discussion:
- Are we rewarding people appropriately?
- Do people need to turn off their autovoters and curate manually?
- Do we have a culture of nepotism on hive?
- Is longer content more valuable? (Depends on the category, I guess)
- Can this data be used to downvote content of poor quality that is getting a (perceived) unfair portion of posting rewards?
- How can HIVE retain "top talent" content creators by rewarding them more appropriately?
If you got this far, thank you for reading!
I look forward to the discussion!
Ah, now everything is totally clear. In Hive, you need to write in Mandarin Chinese to get the highest rewards and payouts with the least effort.
Are we rewarding people appropriately?
NO!
Do people need to turn off their autovoters and curate manually?
YES!
Do we have a culture of nepotism on hive?
YES, of course.
Is longer content more valuable? (Depends on the category, I guess)
YES, should be.
Can this data be used to downvote content of poor quality that is getting a (perceived) unfair portion of posting rewards?
Probably, but I believe it would be much better to subject to public ridicule to those "curators" who blindly vote on such poor quality content.
How can HIVE retain "top talent" content creators by rewarding them more appropriately?
In my opinion, Hive today is beyond repair in terms of its ability to retain users. The cancer of nepotism, cronyism, circlejerking, automated blind votes and idiocy has already metastasized throughout its organism. This would mean committing genocide killing them all and starting over as to have a minimal chance to cure the disease. Which, unfortunately, will only work for a short time before contracting the same cancer once again.
If hive is just a reflection of our humanity, how do we get people to accept "treatment" to see beyond their own self interests, and embrace the altruistic possibilities of our platform?
Thank you for answering the questions directly. Thanks for reading the whole post. I think my own position closely mirrors yours, and I carefully avoided saying how I felt.
I admire your words, and you articulate the history of both steem and hive quite well in your last dot point.
I hope for change. I hope that data like this can nudge the community into the direction of that change.
I'll keep refining it, in the hopes that things do change. If they don't, I'm not sure where else I have to go. I get the most engagement from my rambling on Hive. That's what I crave. Engagement.
Definitely agree with most of your points, especially if we focus on Hive as a writers' platform. However, I think that it also reflects the value of building a social network on top of one's talent. All talent and no social connections will get one nowhere... however, good social connections and less talent can definitely take one places - this reflects the real world (yes its a kind of nepotism), but its our human nature, and I don't think there is much to be done about that.
Is longer content more valuable... hmmm... an idealist would agree, but in reality I really don't think that's necessarily the case. The value of something is always a subjective matter. It's a market.
I do think that lazy writers should be called out, especially if they specifically call themselves 'writers'... I mean, there are people who primarily make art and photos who use very little text and they do well (but don't call themselves 'writers',)and that's fair. So we have to be very nuanced about what is considered low effort content (shouldn't be just a matter to wordcount).
To your last point, very much agree with your assessment, the old connections from Steemit are still running strong and new Hiveans are struggling to get their foot through the door. But I think its also an issue of not having all the tools needed to build new connections. Content discovery on this platform is really poor, and communities also tend to be all over the place.
Seeing how much people made on here for posting 400 words genuinely made me half my word count from around 1k to about 600 max for general posts.
I also felt that way at times. When I'd spend quite a bit of time trying to put together a Post that I valued, about a topic I found important, only to have a handful of interest, both in views and upvotes.
Where I could write something on a Hive Hot Topic, put in less time & basic effort, and achieve many times more "reward" because know that Community has a massive force behind it.
Yeah there's definitely things that Hive just has no care for, because the community itself is so thin. Like you said there are ways for people to make a decent sum on here by just conforming to whatever is generally hot and liked by the wider demographic.
In my case I had that feeling that I had to write longer posts for it to be considered 'good' but these days that isn't how this place operates. You'll see people making bank by just posting pictures of other people's art. Posts with 300 words and two images. Some people that are untouchable and think they're on a moral high ground that get support purely because they have higher stake despite not being interesting.
I realised I was wasting my time trying to stretch out my posts because of how things used to be here, so I just cut them in half. If everyone else is posting like 300 - 600 words and making more than me, why am I beating myself up trying to reach 1k? Haha
What's your purpose for posting? Are you posting to "mine" hive, or are you posting to tell a story, share something, or create a discussion, or build a community?
Words are about intentionality - and you can definitely say the same thing in ten words or ten thousand. One is going to have more impact than the other.
A story about a cat watching birds in a window on a rainy day - for example.
It could be a photo, and two hundred cleverly written words.
or
It could be a philosophical treatise on how cats behaviour is conditioned by their predator mechanics, with some sort of cruel irony about them not liking water, and birds being fine with it (etc)
It is all about context.
yeah i went through a period of asking myself the point of it all, i realised that a lot of it was coming from the earlier days of hive where we considered "good" content to be a bit longer, but that's not so much the case anymore; i had a lot of bad practices that came from the earlier days that i was still doing more out of routine without realising
i actually enjoy writing less for the photography posts since i feel like i'm more concise with what i want to say and don't feel the need to spread out a ton of words when the post is generally just about the visuals
I've figured out a way to compare content within individual communities, so posts can be compared on metrics that matter to those communities.
I think Photography Lovers will be one of the first that I will look at, because there's a big variety in that community, words vs pictures, technical explanations, and image and shutter speed / iso / aperture.
Great way to analyze the data—really love this approach!
I don’t think the value of a post can be judged by word count alone. Too long, and you risk losing the reader’s attention; too short, and it can feel like a quick post just for rewards. That said, I’ve seen both sides: short posts with powerful insights, and long ones that feel like low-effort AI-generated filler.
Personally, I’m not a fan of autovotes. I really think manual curators deserve more recognition—kudos to them for putting in the time and effort to truly evaluate content. 👏
The thing I like about this analysis (and why I did it this way) - was to try and shine a light on what "has been" - and for people to look more closely at how they use their vote on content in the future.
I don't like autovotes either. Sometimes, however - if it weren't for autovotes, I don't think I'd get many votes at all! :P
Each post should be assessed on its own merits, against its peers. That is, a photography post should be compared to a photography post. A short fiction should be compared to other short fiction.
I am already working on a classifier to try and describe a post based on its content - once I've got these "categories" fleshed out, it will be a more insightful tool.
Can we have a list if manual curators as well.
I don't have a list, but I can do nothing but say good things about @acidyo and many of the curation services they've been a part of are very passionate about manual curation.
They've been banging on about manual curation and the weakness of autovoters for years and years.
The cruel irony is that a post like this isn't even a tool that curators can use. We can only look at it, look at the events of the past, and ask ourselves "should this post have gotten this reward?"
I will try do something about this. 🥰
Don't trust any statistics that you haven't falsified yourself.
That's one of my favorite sayings. I love statistics, the problem is that they can often be interpreted differently depending on how you collect them and how you ask the questions.
Also, unfortunately, there are too many factors here at Hive. And some say nothing, see my post today on the KE. The post now means that my stats will now look very different to what they would have been 2 hours ago.
What I want to say is that you have to pay a lot of attention to something like this, in my case now the downvotes I get, otherwise it's a rarity.
Then there are streamers who don't write anything but create videos. How do you rate that?
Then there are those who do a lot of duplication. How exactly did you count the words? What about programming code?
No data should be used for downvotes, no KE, no post length....
Every post should be considered beforehand and you should form an opinion.
Thank you for reading the post and leaving this detailed comment.
There is, of course a great diversity of content on HIVE, and not everyone is purely writing long-form fiction, editorials, or content. People tend to, however be creatures of habit, both in terms of how they decide what they're going to publish, and how they're going to vote.
But there's two types of habit - particularly when it comes to curation, which is what the causation for the insights and questions asked of this post.
There are those who do indeed evaluate every post on its merits - read, engage, and evaluate. Then there are those who use autovoters to follow "curation trails" and put their faith to have others decide.
People should not be "awarded" for their status, tenure, or any other metric other than the quality of a given post.
This is a good point - and I am already working on a classifier function to put posts into categories. (Outside of the community they were published in, or the tags used)
I already have a "words per picture" and "picture count" column in my data set, and I can do the same for youtube videos / twitch embeds / three speak embeds. I am even going to count swearing in posts, just for fun :)
This post is just a first run at this data, and overtime, if we look at the "trend", I perhaps naively believe that all curators will be doing manual curation, actually reading posts, and not giving 80+ rewards to ~200 words, a few screenshots, and a 100 word signature.
Its just the number of spaces between words in the post. I mention this in the post itself
English is my only language, but given the vast majority of content on HIVE is in latin languages, the methodology is sound. As for "code" (things like headers, images, or code samples) - this is something that can be derived by actually looking at the post, the same thing goes for photography, video, music, poetry and other forms of content.
Amazing and very informative post. Thank you for bringing it to notice
Do you have any suggestions on ways to improve the insights or the data for any future iterations? Thanks for coming by :)
I love all this data…
but, payout per word is a misnomer, because i cannot write more words and expect to get paid more.
But, but, i wonder if i change over time, if it would? Probably not.
It seems more beneficial to write (put the extra words into) more posts…
Absolutely pay per word is just a metric - and I wouldn't expect to be paid more for more words - good language, is of course, efficient language - to get your point across as succinctly as possible. But if I have a critique of a painting, I am not going to write fourteen different posts critiquing the painting by 512x512 pixel tiles.
There are clearly some users on the chain who consistently post low effort shit posts and get high rewards. This isn't their fault - it is the fault of curators, and people who are too afraid to downvote content within the seven day window.
A downvote should never be seen as a personal attack, but instead as an altruistic move to give everyone else on the chain who has "skin in the game" (a post up for reward) slightly more, and that specific post slightly less.
every downvote i have gotten is because the person didn't like the topic. So, i am kinda biased against down votes.
And i have watched friends get destroyed by downvotes because they got on someone's bad side.
If I disagree with something you post, I would much rather have a discussion about it, as perhaps the void of my ignorance will be filled by the perspective of another. Perhaps not everyone is like this, though.
I too have seen "ordinary" authors be consistently (and perhaps, without apparent justification) be downvoted to the point that they get the impression "you're no longer welcome here", and enquires as to why met with silence. That isn't helpful to anyone.
I rarely downvote people myself, but If I am going to, I am going to directly justify my stance in a comment to the top level post.
What is far more damaging to the platform (except in the case of obvious spammers) - is automated downvotes on authors because of some conflicting intersection of ideas (eg, one might say the sky is blue, the other might say azure) - an extreme example to be sure.
Do we have to go through the Azure Wars again?!! 😝
That said, i have run into people writing tiny posts and upvoting them (or replies) themselves. A long string of 2¢, and that is totally what downvoting is for.
And i welcome dissenting opinions. God knows that i post an article a week poking holes at science. I upvote them, but am not always capable of responding.
I personally prefer to reward comments over the top level posts, I value the engagement and conversation.
It proves that the person has read my reply, absorbed my content, and thought about it. Something like proof of them having a brain, or something :D
I personally don't agree with everything you post. I keep reading your posts though, because they expand my views beyond what I know. I am also aware that I can have an intellectually challenging conversation with you about the subject matter and the semantics.
well you know what they say a picture says a thousand words .... so how are you going to judge photography payouts ? or muscicians ?
That's easy. I can look at the photography with my eyes, and I can hear the music with my ears.
The whole point is to look at each post manually, and critically, and for people to take their "curation" duties seriously.
This is for what rewards have been given, not rewards that are pending. We should be capable of looking at our past behaviour and then saying "we should change that in the future".
My photography posts are very different to my game / movie / book reviews. My data posts are very different to all of these. I hope to develop a "post classifier" where I can break down these past reward trends into more sub-categories.
The analysis could even be performed on a per community basis, as communities tend to have different standards for posts.
and i don't how you do your word count but i noticed that if i number my photos like 1 ) it counts as 2 words ...
Word(0) count(1) is(2) just(3) the(4) number(5) of(6) spaces(7) between(8) words(9) plus(10) one(11).
The code starts its count from zero.
This data is fascinating, thank you for presenting it the way you did.
In my most recent day job, I was a data analyst / report builder, so I try to make things as simple as possible :D
This still has a lot of room for improvement, as I have discussed with many of the other people leaving comments on the post.
Of course there's nepotism. I see it all the time. I'm too tired to digest these numbers (been down the coast) but I get grumpy even thinking about the payouts I see on Hive for certain posts. Sigh. I try to ignore it, nothing I can do.
I might start downvoting them. Commit blockchain suicide on any of my potential rewards :D
Edit: Don't bother trying to digest, I'm still working on a subsequent version of this report. Forever iterating and improving.
I think curation services could use their powers to downvote as well. Doing it on your own is committing blockchain suicide indeed.
I thought one of the curation services temporarily did this, but stopped doing it. Don't remember which it was or why they stopped.
One issue with this is that 'victims' might try to counter upvotes from that service.
You could set up a service that only downvotes, but delegators won't earn any rewards for their delegations then.
Another issue will be to decide what is overrewarded content.
But it might be something interesting to look into.
I think many people are seeing this happen and don't dare to do or say anything about it.
The reward is seeing the rewards go to every other post that has a pending payout, no? Could it not be one of their own posts that benefits from this, a rising tide, lifting all ships, etc?
Hopefully by looking at the data, some trends can be identified to define what that might be :) Particularly with comparing apples vs apples within the same communities. ie, if someone who has "chops" goes into a community, breaks their rules, doesn't post stuff that's up to the normal quality of that community, the moderators of that community can mute that post, sure.
But the rest of the hive population shouldn't stand by someone "crashing the party" of that community (I know that rewards aren't distributed by communities, and are across the chain) - should then see that the post is rewarded ... eh, more appropriately?
It is hard to articulate.
Generally, people know if their content is shit or not. If they don't have any sense of self-awareness, It won't stop them farming rewards from it.
From my view, I just try to not generate shit content and not post shit on the chain anymore, because oh golly did I do that once upon a time. I can't dispute that, there's a blocklog that can't be modified. That's a good thing.
There's got to be some personal responsibility about "accepting" rewards, too, I guess. I see that some authors who may not really have anything to say might try for that post a day to try and get the juice from the autovoters.
That's abuse, in my mind.
True. But it is still an investment. And I often see that people want change, but not when they have to pay for it themselves.
I would delegate some of my stake for such an initiative if it is set up wel..
Some people might think they earned these auto-upvotes by investing in Hive (either financially or by spending time).
I think it would be difficult to get a lot of delegations from large stakeholders. But a lot of small delegations also adds up!
I think so too.
Maybe if I keep presenting this data, some people will start to change their ways. :)
One week is not a trend, after all. :) But a few months? That's a habit ;)
Hahah yes, I do try to avoid blockchain suicide and just rant off chain, or just breath and ignore it. Appreciate these kinds of posts anyway. I don't think my little down votes matter at all.
Awesome post! It seems that the sweet spot is somewhere between 500 - 1000 words. And its not surprising given that an average reader might not be interested in really long posts.
Another factor to consider is the amount of real followers and levels of social connection. One might call that nepotism, but developing a connection and favoritism among your fellow Hiveans is still a commendable skill.
Another thing that I'd factor in is the ratio of images to text - I find that using the right images to accompany the text helps my eyes rest, and also might be a factor in enticing me to read the post to begin with.
Just proper markdown is also so important.
I have images to text ratio for the next post on the topic:)
Very cool, I look forward to it!
As a visual person, I'm really curious what additional parameters you're going to look at... Like which images were AI generated, or was the image the theme of the post (like an artist's creative process) or was the image hand-drawn vs. photo, etc.
I can't even imagine what work goes into extracting all this data, so please don't feel obligated to go that far... I'm just throwing ideas.
I won't be able to go down that level of depth with the tech (and scale) I have st my personal disposal, but there might be ways to see if of image captions are mentioning a source or if they're tagged as AI generated by the user when giving credit. There are also going to be a lot of image strings in the text that are things like authors signatures, or dividers, that aren't really "pictures" thay add value to the post.
There's a lot of variables. I'll only know what is capable as I spend a few more hours each week refining my methodology.
Hopefully people will continue finding it interesting or useful.
Interesting tables at the end. Although... word count is not always very relevant. As one of your tables shows, with lengthy posts, below average payouts.
Word count is relevant if the author has a complicated point to get across, or is putting in an enormous amount of effort and not being rewarded commensurately. It isn’t so much about the reward, but reading between the lines around curation outcomes.
I’ve got some more metrics I’ve been working on for this data set, and I will be publishing more insights in the near future. Images Per Post, Words per image, “pay per image”, all broken down by communities and tags.
It will take some time to sift through the data, but I also want to see if there is any long-term trend where a certain subset of authors have lower than average word counts or images per post, but above average payouts.
I know there’s a lot of auto voters out there, but at the same time, there’s also a lot of people who see a name they know, and upvote blindly, without addressing the quality of each individual post against its peers.
My underlying thesis is that authors should be competing for the reward pool based on merit, and as a rising tide drives all ships… we can hopefully see the subjective (not the objective) quality of posts increase.
I agree with your point that some subjects need longer posts to get into full details.
But data shows there isn't always a correlation between the length of the post and its reward, and that is normal.
Looking forward to the other correlations you've made. The one about images will be interesting. I tend to believe posts with more images do better on rewards. And yet, I rarely add more than 1 on mine...