See, this is a part of the problem. I didn't say there were any downvotes on the post to which I linked. In fact, the post is ABOUT downvotes and whether they are causing a user retention problem on Hive, the very conversation we're having now. If you had read the post, you'd have known that. If you had read the title of the post, you've had known that. Now we're talking about willful ignorance. And just in case there might be some confusion, I'll spell it out: I'm talking about YOU.
Again my point, just a bunch of people talking. No actual downvotes just would be could be.
I don’t need or want to read the post, I’ve seen enough people crying about downvotes that haven’t happened.
100% anecdotal
Exactly, just a bunch of people crying about things that haven’t happened.
I've actually invited you, and now I'm imploring you, to point me to some tools that will allow me to gather evidence to prove you RIGHT.
It’s a public blockchain, it’s all right here. There are no tools to providing downvotes. You can use any programming language to query the blockchain or even use SQL but unless you’re a developer you are not going to get far. I mean with all these people crying about downvotes, surely one of them must have seen them. In almost every instance the downvotes are justified. Not 100% of the time but it isn’t even remotely an epidemic, but what is crying about it without evidence.
If there's no evidence that downvotes has created a user-retention problem for Hive, a proper analysis should reveal that. Where is it?
You are the one making the argument. Surely you have evidence on your side rather than just repeating other people’s nonsense? You are asking someone who could care less about this crying wolf to prove a negative.
All I am asking for is one simple thing. Evidence. You are providing an argument but it’s all just based on hearsay.
I'm not making an argument. I'm presenting a query. But I'm talking to a deaf man.
!lol
https://hivealive.io/untrending
You can see from marky's numbers above that freebornsociety is a good resource to follow along with for who is flagging what.
The different weights are different flaggers.
This discord is the second antiabuse initiative in the hive: https://discord.gg/sR7gBWfZb, many of the curators are there.
There isn't a widespread downvote problem in the hive, there is an entitled to rewards issue, though.
IF you don't believe me, follow along and find out for yourself.
I had to, and the years since have proven marky correct.
That doesn't fit the agenda in their head, and they don't want to hear it.
I see that, too.
Too bad they still had to read it.
Maybe their illusion will shatter.
Nah, people are incapable of changing their minds.
Alot of them, for sure.
There are techniques, though.
Any time something of value is at stake, there will be corruption. People will feel entitled. What strikes me as funny is that both sides of this debate point the finger at the other side as the entitled. Both are correct.
Please show me these corrupted downvoters. I'd also love to know how they make money off their downvotes.
Downvotes are not necessarily about making money. It's very often about preventing someone else from making money, or making "too much" money. Like, how much is too much?
All of this voting is subjective. What would be interesting is to conduct a study on upvotes and downvotes. Why do we do it? Why does Subject A upvote Subject B? Why does Subject C downvote Subject D? In either case, there is an incentive or a disincentive at play. The blockchain has given rise to more than one short-form content frontend because of the debate over whether short-form content can provide value. Most of us would agree that it can, but there are some people who would prefer that Hive remain a long-form content medium. Some of those folks have downvoted short-form content just for being short-form content.
I've got nothing against the downvote button, but there are people who clearly feel the need to use it to somehow correct a perceived injustice for every individual who receives "too many" upvotes or is about to receive an abundance of rewards for an introductory post. Flagging spam and plagiarism are a given, but hitting everything that appears to be low-value content might mean misjudging some of them.
Downvotes are a balance to upvotes, a lot of content here is grossly over-rewarded and a lot is grossly under rewarded in comparison. The system was designed for the community to vote with both upvotes and downvotes to establish what the community feels is a fair amount.
Most people will immediately flip out if there is a downvote regardless the amount or reason.
Prior to me getting involved, there were multiple 100% automated posts making $100+/day. Do you feel that is fair to authors who put hours into writing their own content and make less than $1?
I 100% agree there are bad downvotes, but it is extremely rare and far less common than bad upvotes. I don't feel it is even remotely a epedemic. It's a problem, but extremely rare and 100% fixable with the tools already available to us.
Not all downvotes you feel are bad are actually bad downvotes, in most cases you either don't know why they are happening, or don't want to accept it.
As the largest downvoter on the platform, I don't go around downvoting people because I don't like them or disagree with them. I can't speak for everyone, but the reality is most people here have no significant stake so their downvotes are virtually meaningless.
I feel entitlement is far more of a epedemic here than these rogue downvotes you can't produce.
I don't know if it's "most" people, but a lot of people do, and I think the reason is because they value their own content more than everyone else does. Instead of seeing it as an object lesson, they see it as an injustice. Human nature, I guess.
Life isn't fair. If this happens as a consequence of this:
then the community has spoken, but keep in mind that "the community" consists of whales who can upvote or downvote at 10% percent with a strength greater than a dozen plankton with an upvote or downvote of 100%. To some people, that can seem like an imbalance. I certainly believe that those who have built their reputations on the chain should have more clout. But with greater clout comes greater responsibility.
We found something to agree on.
No one knows why anyone else is downvoting unless they ask, or the downvoter discloses it. When I downvote, which is not often, I do usually leave a comment explaining why. The exception is when something is blatantly spam or plagiarized. I've actually seen people bragging about downvoting something they thought was low-value and I do think there is a huge grey area where "low-value" content can mean a lot of things that are relative to each other. Maybe someone's English isn't that great, so their prose seems choppy and broken. Maybe they aren't great at expressing themselves in written form but have interesting ideas. "Low-value" is a relative term that can mean different things to different people.
Entitlement is a big problem for the human face in general. Especially in the U.S.
Nobody asks their upvoters why they upvoted.
Few want to suffer what comes with downvoting, even 'correctly'.
It's not rocket surgery, original content, every time.
People doing that don't get flagged, very often.
Thanks for the HiveAlive link. Just what I asked @themarkymark for and didn't get. I've removed my witness vote from him and given it to @ura-soul instead. That's a very useful resource.
Ura had a downvote problem for a long time, too.
Thanks, I appreciate it. Unfortunately, some of the other top 20 witnesses even ridiculed me building the downvote table!
I will be rebuilding that entire website soon and improving it quite a bit, just need more spare time.
I personally have no problems with the downvote table, more information is a not a bad thing, the crying about downvotes in every single channel on every platform was what I found annoying, but I ignored most of it. Everywhere I went, it was you ranting about downvotes for quite a while.
I wasn't actually referring to you with this comment. A couple of others seemed a bit nervous and leapt into attack mode.
I know, but downvotes are constantly complained about, but it is rarely a real issue, and the community has the tools to easily counter them. Upvotes are far more poorly used by a factor of 10,000x.
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lol sorry to interrupt your crying. Feel free to go back to it.