You are the first whale stakeholder who supports sbi, if other whales will tell me that sbi is ok, then I will stop following mmmkkk's dv trail and will do what I am doing on Steem, collecting free money (check my ROI on Steem) Surprised?
There is no problem for me to use same algorithm here, on Hive. What do you think? Why am I not doing this yet?
I'm sorry. I will not unfollow mmmkkkk's dv trail, unless I hear some voices from few other whales and community leaders
Hey mate, I haven't really got into this conversation before and am no whale, nor do I know your particular beef with SBI/HBI, but what is the issue?
I think the ROI on it is a very long time, isn't it - and doesn't it require posting and engaging to get a return? Also, people are often using it to reward other users for prizes and stuff. From my experience, it has done more good than harm as it has kept many people interested, especially when it has been used as prizes.
I used to give people small amounts of SBI as engagement prizes which they highly appreciated, but after the downvotes they received, I now power them up some HIVE - it has a different effect I think and I believe that the SBI was taken as more of a reward, as it had longevity, even though the return (as far as I remember) was far in the future for anyone.
I think that overall, the draw on the pool through SBI is quite small and it is heading out to many users who are encouraged to keep active. It also keeps HIVE powered up and actively distributing. If there is a harm, I think in this case, the pros outweigh the cons. What I do think though, is flagging users who have no idea why they are really getting flagged (remember they are often bought for new users to encourage engagement) is more harmful to the UX of smaller users on the platform - and that isn't great.
Interested to know more.
In the past my only issue was the lack of info on SBI and when I mentioned that I'm usually not a big fan of automation or something like that and without even picking sides since I also mentioned I knew so little about the project the owner stopped responding and shortly after unvoted our witness so it didn't make it any easier to try and get to the bottom of it to pick a side when knowing enough info and them acting so defensively about it usually raises red flags. So my next question would be what's in it for the creator of SBI/HBI and can this service exist without middlemen taking a cut if that's the case and if the manual work is still so minimal from that end yet there are positives that come from it thus there's a demand for it.
Of course I'm not against good ideas being rewarded but in public blockchains there needs to be room for competition, undercutting and improvements but it's hard when the info seems hard to get a hold off and the owner gets defensive when someone asks to many questions.
Thanks for weighing in. I apologize if I seemed defensive before. That's not how I recall our previous interaction, but then somebody doesn't usually realize they're being defensive until called out on it.
I have usually tried to be very open about how SBI/HBI works. Our codebase is open source, and we have an FAQ and tons of supporting documents explaining how everything works. When we were posting every day, the links to FAQ and support documentation were included in every post.
We have made witness changes for lots of reasons over the years, so I couldn't say whether the witness change was because of our conversation. If you seemed hostile to me (which is likely if I responded defensively) then it probably was related.
As community members have brought concerns to me, I have tried to weigh concerns and responded when it seemed merited (including removing rewards for upvoting SBI posts, even though they funded 30% of our voting power).
I recall that you had some concerns about our comment voting, and I was not in agreement at the time. I later decided that you were right, and we have not voted on any comments in a long time.
I take an override of 5% on all sponsorships (rewarded to my account as bonus units that give me a chunky vote whenever I actually post). Because I don't post often, I actually use those for airdrops, supporting community initiatives, and paying the writers and interviewers that created content for SBI when we still posted regularly. I don't receive any other payment from the program.
If it brings an end to the attacks against SBI/HBI members, I would be happy to remove my 5% bonus units from all new sponsorships. My current stack of bonus units I need to facilitate membership conversions from Steem and reward as prizes for upcoming contests that are planned).
I don't post that often anyway (except comments).
Thank you for the detailed comment and explanation, I have to say I have nothing against HBI now and considering the amount of users that find value in it and believe it brings value to the chain it should be a "let the free market/wisdom of the crowd" decide type of thing.
Also it's fine, I sometimes also get defensive over my projects when the stance of the accusers are hostile and illinformed but I thought at the time I was making it clear that I lacked knowledge about it and I believe @snook had asked me if I could weigh in my opinion on it. The witness thing just seemed like it happened shortly after and while the unvote itself is okay doing it for such reasons isn't imo, but maybe that was also a mixup and I was remembering someone else doing it.
Anyway, thanks for clearing that up and rethinking the comment voting.
Ok, I will not waste my time anymore. I'll stop downvoting it, but I think, soon we'll get to the point where I have started: hundreds, sometimes thousands of STEEM transferred to sbi daily
cool to hear that even the OG anti SBI user is going to let it be and give it a try, not sure what you mean by things getting bad but if they somehow do you can count on my downvotes as well.
ps. a bit sad over the unvote of our witness considering our position over this @ctime.
So that STEEM / now Hive being transferred to HBI is not going off the platform. It's staying here ... it's being used to help users stay on the platform and active. I could see your concern if that was hundreds or thousands of STEEM heading to exchanges every day.
Pussy.
@ctime here is another person, (whale) as you asked for, that supports HBI.
I'm by far no whale, lol.
shhhhhhhhhhh.......... it sounded good! lol
Thank you so much @acidyo
Not sure if they take a cut or much of a cut tbh, but I do think that it has some effect on engagement and retention on the platform.
While it is automated on the vote (as it votes a lot), the people who have HBI have at least "often" been chosen based on their activity. For example, the ones I mostly gave to where from the number I sponsor (10) on the Engagement League. I would put a couple SBI for them, as at least on that week, they likely put around 200 comments onto the chain, and unlikely got paid much for it. Getting that small vote from time to time probably matters to them.
Most sponsorships have been based on contests of some sort, and we used to run a twice weekly post that listed all the contests giving SBI as prizes. About two-thirds of SBI members were sponsored by others and never paid anything in.
This is an interesting metric to look at. Thanks for adding some information. Out of curiosity, what is your own return?
As I mentioned to @acidyo, I get 5% 'bonus units' as new sponsorships create regular units. Since I have to post to get benefit from those, and then the benefit is limited by HBI's total HP and VP... I mostly run at a loss.
If the program were to wind down, I would payout Liquid Refunds based on our refund policy and then anything left over from the SP base would belong to me. Unlikely anything would be leftover though, because most revenues go into dlease to keep member returns as high as we sustainably can.
Basically I run it as a service to extend my reach and help as many people as I can in a sustainable way.
(edit: I keep forgetting to mention that 40% of the bonus units I get actually go to @holger80 for developing the codebase and providing support during the rare windows when it breaks down)
I 100% second this. Totally my thoughts.
The advantages are much more than the little disadvantages.
The last time I calculated this it took almost a year for some ROI. Actually, mmmmmkkkk311 once laughed about it in a comment because in his opinion the vote you receive is so small. Still, he thinks his investment is in danger and he needs to protect it with downvotes. Perhaps he missed some hours of math at school.
So additionally it's also a long term investment. Who invests in HSBI plans to stay for a long time, especially if you keep reinvesting.
HIVE ON!!!
Thank you @tarazkp for supporting HBI.
Respectfully, as a new user who isn't a whale and has limited avenues to grow my account, HBI is something that when I was gifted one from another user absolutely made my day.
I also think it's a little sad that you only want to listen to whales. I get why, I think, since their opinions can make or break us regular users - but they also account for the smallest portion of the community.
The majority so far have asked that you stop downvoting HBI owners, and I have to agree with them until I hear a compelling reason why HBI harms HIVE.
Exactly!!
You said it perfectly!
Personally, I think we are critically low on users and had hoped this SBI/HBI downvoting would cease.
I'm no longer involved with Steem and so couldn't care less what happens over there, but hopefully you choose not to downvote on Hive. Your choice of course.
Thank you @abh12345 for supporting HBI!!!
I have no problem with SBI/HBI because I believe everyone should be free to conduct enterprise on chain as long as it is professional and some people find value in it. I don't feel they should be attacked for running an enterprise.
That's because you're a fucking slimeball that runs trashy/scammy services.
I don't like what you're doing. I think I'll just oppose all of your votes moving forward. Who is going to delegate to you at that point?
I also don't really care for this HBI handout nonsense, but, you're just a dick.
If he is a dick then who you are?
Your worst fucking nightmare.
There must be something wrong with your ego
Goddamn you're fucking weak.
Are you out of your fucking mind? Again?
For slaughtering a trash account? Trust me, there's far more coming.
Let's see. Anyone who downvotes this account will get lifetime downvotes from me, even you
Still not seeing any downvotes...
You have to make first move to activate lifetime downvotes for your account , upvote your comment. Don't be a pussy
Done! Get to work, my bitch!
I thought you said all I had to do was downvote the account?
You can't even play by your own rules.
You're my bitch now.
Is that supposed to be a threat, little man?
You have no idea what you're getting yourself into.
Pretty sure you'd never be able to keep up with downvoting me. I'm still waiting...
Pussy? Where ya at?
I thought you were going to give me a lifetime of downvotes? Where are they?
So where are those flags?