Shakeout in Governance: DHF enters Savings Mode // EDIT: ok not anymore

in #hive2 months ago (edited)

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{ Sorry for the imagebait, it's not accurately true, blocktrades has a strong weight in gov but by no means his vote is 100% decisive. Just enjoy the meme. }


Last night I was doing my business around here and I got a screenshot of the current status of the DHF.

WOW... what a rush.

My girlfriend won't take me seriously when I tell her that seeing a gentleman's vote on my favorite blockchain got me all worked up. I recognize. I got a little horny.

Don't get me wrong.

This blocktrades move is great news in my opinion.

For a long time now, the use of DHF has been strongly questioned. Mainly due to a deliberate lack of accounting, breakdown of expenses and of course lack of clarity on the part of the DHF workers.

-> In fact I wrote about it last summer with the HBD APR drama situation.

This move from blocktrades generates a small earthquake.

  • Suddenly no one is funded (only ecency but the funding ends in ~27 days).
  • Being funded it's still possible but requires mobilizing much more voting power.

which is something I personally appreciate very much. You can articulate the message as you want, but the funding by DHF has been a constant selling pressure on the price of HIVE with no tangible results (so far*).

** Development is needed, Marketing is needed. But accountability with a CLEAR plan is ALSO needed. The DHF shouldn't be treated as a charity. In 99% of the cases people in power in this scheme end up being complacent and little by little corruption eats us.

Which SURPRISE!, that is exactly what is slowly happening to us.

Price does not matter in the short term. But we cannot ignore it forever and play the ostrich game putting our head under the sand.

This is why we desperately need things like VSC...

My Take

In my opinion the best marketing is a number going up.

And most if not all of our funding should be allocated where it generates more value (talking about organic value, not P&D schemes).

  • Building a Bitcoin Reserve?
  • HIVE/HBD AMM + yield from the DHF?
  • Wrapping HIVE to other chains in a decentralized way? (In the works with VSC)
  • Getting HBD listings?
  • Borrowing market for HBD?

I don't mind what, but others tried this before and (somewhat) worked.

Make HIVE attractive to users, developers and investors (better if it is a combination of all of them), and the number will go up.

equilibrio.jpg

Number going up will attract more users, developers & investors and with them their talent which will result in a self-reinforcing cycle (with again more human, mental and financial capital).

Anything other than this means isolating ourselves on our island and gradually becoming more and more irrelevant.

Hard? Yes, since value it's subjective but... we will have to be better then.

Some (Gross) Governance Numbers

We often complain that there is not enough involvement in the governance of our chain.

Out of a total supply of ~500M HIVE...

  • 180M HIVE exist in their staked form, which is a ~36%.
  • From this amount, ~60M are needed to approve a proposal and ~70M to place a witness in the top 20.

So, in the worst case scenario 70M HIVE is the figure needed to dramatically alter the governance of this chain. And I'm not counting HIVE supply locked into HBD which are like 50-100M additional.

And it's a problem of blocktrades for having too much stake? Bullshit. It's the rest problem for having nothing comparatively speaking.

Too many users selling too much... or buying too little... I don't know.

It's very easy to talk about governance, responsibility, justice and duty when you have nothing at stake.

And it's exactly what I demand on proposals & witnesses: SKIN IN THE GAME.
If not, I cannot take seriously on your word, sorry.

Fuck it. If the DHF stake keeps being a problem why not burning it all?

We could rely only on the 10% of freshly created HBD every year from new inflation. Want more funding for proposals? Increase the number and make this 10% worth more.

Talking about inflation...

A little Governance Suggestion:

Why don't we incentivize governance in some way?
Participating in it has no reward per se for the user who engages in it.

gobernar.jpg

We have the tools available to do it. Look HIVE inflation is distributed as follows:

  • 65% Used for the reward Pool

  • 10% for the DHF

  • 10% for witnesses

  • 15% for HP Stakeholders

Look, 15% of all the new supply is distributed to HP holders. This equals to approximately a ~3% yield for everyone staked.

My suggestion is, why not distribute this inflation ONLY to HP which is actively involved in governance?

And what does it mean to ''be involved in governance''?
To vote for a witness, proposal and/or proxy in the last year.

We have the ''governance voting decay'' which is already live and implemented in HF25.

Why not use something like this.

~3% APR is negligible for 99% of users. No one buys HIVE for this 15% distributed to stakers. Why not making it useful for governance?

0 cost for the chain (no changes on current on inflation absolute numbers). Only potential upside in the form of more decentralization and more involved HP holders.

Conclusion

I am completely in favor of the latest changes in governance (hopefully they last and proper discussion happen). Although some proposals such as VSC and the Stabilizer are necessary IMHO.

I'll follow very interested how all of this topic unfolds.

Thank you for reading this far. Very appreciated. Have a good start of the upcoming week.

EDIT:

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LMAO, exactly the minute I hit publish (pls sir...)


You're not voting for my witness yet and love what I do? Don't ask me more:

(100% of witness rewards are reinvested weekly into PWR).


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Pretty disappointing isn't it? I was working on my post for tomorrow and this happens. I don't really get it. Why even vote on it in the first place if you are just going to back track not 24 hours later. If anything it's kind of a slap in the face. Like they are toying with us now.

That is a very interesting idea, the inflation for the HP shall be distributed only for the ones active voting. I like it, as its incentives people to stake. I would even go one step further, and do it only for the HP that is actually voting, not the one where somebody set a proxy. If you set a proxy vote, no inflation adjustment on the HP.

Nah, voting for a proxy is also governance. The rule should be the same for the ''vote gov decayment'' after 1 year IMHO.

(It's already a big improvement Vs our current state).

Well, proxy is not thinking for yourself, that would be more encouraging.

Spot on!

Would love more clarification on the whys but I guess the vast majority agrees this was a blessing, albeit very short lived (just saw the vote was removed!!); it should prompt for a decent and much needed discussion about how DHF funds are in fact being used. And do like some of your ideas here, especially the governance involvment part!

Crossing fingers the vote removal doesn't get us back to the same old sh... ;)

And it's a problem of blocktrades for having too much stake? Bullshit. It's the rest problem for having nothing comparatively speaking.

Completely agree. It's not his fault for having a much higher stake by comparison.

My suggestion is, why not distribute this inflation ONLY to HP which is actively involved in governance?

I have thought about that and even wrote about it. Was promptly countered in enough comments, but I don't remember the reason(s) unfortunately. Regarding the proxy part, yes, that activates an inactive stake for governance for a little bit of an incentive, but at the cost of likely growing a few centers of power (it's often been the case when users didn't understand what they are giving up - I've seen and had to explain why someone voting on a proposal counts as 0 even though they had enough HP - we are talking orca level -, because they had their vote proxied and the proxy didn't vote on the proposal they wanted passed; it is for Splinterlands proposal, btw, another one that generated some drama).

Now that the return proposal is so high up there, I think I'll vote on things like HBD stablizer again. I vote the return proposal and then vote anything I like and then anything I don't vote is 'effectively' downvoted, since voting the return is an effective downvote to everything else and voting other proposal in addition to the return effectively nullifies the downvote.

That's how I work it anyways.

And Just as I got to do what I just commented the return proposal is no longer way up there.

You know what.... I think I know what might of happened.. Blocktrades might of voted on the return proposal on the mirror net to test dhf stuff... but may have sent it to mainnet inadvertently my mistake.

It's happened before with working with mirrornets, you do a thing and accidently do it on the mainnet rather than the mirronet.. lol.. I donno. It was a short lived bit of drama and discussion anyways.

I had feeling the status quo would revert back.

hahahahaha made my day (again).

baited me into a bit of a ranting post lmao

At least is good that more people wakes up regarding hive gov, but I would've prefered for the 'savings mode' to last a little more.

Whatever. Cheers!

The Return Proposal has actually now reversed and is lower than before all the drama. LEO's proposal is currently getting funded as well as Value Plan.

Oh :(

I would have liked this situation to last a little longer at least.

I'm agree with you!

@tipu curate 2

Great post with a lot of thought behind it.

Building a Bitcoin Reserve?
HIVE/HBD AMM + yield from the DHF?

I like these 2 the most. Also the HIVE inter-chaining thing but yes, VSC is already on it.

Look, 15% of all the new supply is distributed to HP holders. This equals to approximately a ~3% yield for everyone staked.
My suggestion is, why not distribute this inflation ONLY to HP which is actively involved in governance?

I like this too! One vote a year is very easy to do. Those who can't do this simple thing will lose their 3% free inflation which those who so it will therefore get a tiny bit more than 3% as the same pie is cut into less pieces.

If many of us are feeling that DHF is not bringing the value we want (which we already signify granularly with our voting on only certain proposals) maybe we could lower DHF to 5% and raise HP holders active in governance to 20% of the inflation, resulting in 4% yield, up 33% from 3%? I haven't thought that through yet, just typing as I think. :)

Thanks again for the thoughtful and thought provoking article!

Also thanks to you for taking the time for a quality comment and not the tilting ''great post''.

Building a bitcoin reserve for HIVE would be a cheap way to get exposure out there, but has the problem of ''who holds the keys'' fortunately we have multisig. It would be better to start buying at the bottom of a bear market and not now though.

Regarding VSC, I'm very excited to see what they bring onto the table. vaultec gives me good vibes in the sense.

Those who can't do this simple thing will lose their 3% free inflation which those who so it will therefore get a tiny bit more than 3% as the same pie is cut into less pieces.

You're missing a point there.

If let's say only 80M HIVE POWER are actively votting in governance the yield with this 15% of daily inflation is much more than 3%.

It would be closer to 6-7% (since it's the same amount of inflation tokens but being shared between less stakeholders).

Since you're already staked 3 months with hive power, participate in governance costs u nothing! And a 6-7% APR is a great incentive (before adding curation rewards).

I'm stacking HP with the goal of Orca asap, so I welcome 6-7% APR which I would get with your proposal since I do vote for witnesses and proposals.

Re-blogged for a little more reach. Thanks for the interaction!

Could you please check if pwr payments were missed

Yep, some were stuck. Will get sorted over tomorrow or the day after.

Thanks and sorry

The point is most of the project being funded yielded result but was not noted down, and most of project takes it too personal, even a owned private business all gives account of how the money is spent in the business

Some good work I say...