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RE: NEW Hive dApp: Hive Alive | Includes a 1st For Hive -> The UnTrending Report To Track Downvotes.

in #hivealive2 years ago

Well he said he acknowledges the need for downvotes on posts for plagiarism and spam but haven't seen him use his stake to support/downvote blatant posts that do fall under those categories.

Of course, many downvotes are justified in my eyes and probably in most other people's too - but many are not.

Sounds like acknowledging some cases downvotes are warranted but not necessarily contributing to the solution of normalizing downvotes.

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@aadamada

With due respect to all parties involved, I wanna ask why none of those people are working on automatic systems to detect image reuse, tag wrong used, auto plagarism checkers, repost checker, and source not given. I will support this if they also help me in my work. Why I must go to people and tell them their post have leo tag without finance involved? Why I tell people splinterlands quest rewards are not equal to LeoFinance finance category? I go to manual to profiles and guide them about image sources? If there is no replacement by bots then I have to protect hive manually as much as I can. If they want transparency then first make bots that will do these basic warning things. I need my answer from @ura-soul about how he is going to help stop this? Why being biased on one topic and completely neglect other? Let's make this alive front-end great by having equal development share about the things that others think we need.

Why I must go to people and tell them their post have leo tag without finance involved?

Because nobody has built what you are asking for, some due to a lack of time, other due to lack of resources.
There is no need to ask permission to build these things, one only has to do it, or pay for it to be done.

There was @cheetah but running that costs a lot that it was unsustainable. The sentiment of bot comments being seen as spam and most of the automation enabled requiring funding to run.

There is no doubt we have to move towards automation at some point. Its just a question of how to reduce cost, how to increase hive fund and how to attract more investors. In short: I still believe we can't neglect this problem at hand and should figure out new ways to solve it.

If I were the lead designer of Hive I would look at integrating some automation of this stuff at the blockchain level, completely removing the involvement of any black-box and non opaque bots and software/groups. I don't currently have the ability to affect such things because I am not a top 20 witness - but the more people that support my witness, the more I can do in that regard.

I am not a top 20 witness - but the more people that support my witness, the more I can do in that regard.

It will take more then that. To get the support

This kind of work requires constant ongoing maintenance and improvement in order to run and create. The costs are relatively high and I do not have the resources available to cover them. If I were not being downvoted to zero, I would actually have the funds to start thinking about running such apps. The top 20 witnesses receive hundreds of thousands of dollars per year just from being a witness - setting aside their other projects. They also have a large say over what gets funded and doesn't get funded in the worker proposal pool. I suggest starting by asking them your question directly, since they are much better placed to help you than I am.

Ok 👌 Let's assume that you become a top 20 witness. Remember that if you will have funds in future you will fight Plagiarism as much as you can! Deal?

No problem, without the ability for people to demonstrate true uniqueness, proof of brain really falls apart.

There is already a vast amount of stake invested in fighting spam and plagiarism, my stake is better used to support content creators who seek to make use of Hive's censorship resistance to publish information that can help society and individuals to overcome the onslaught of mind control and manipulation constantly spewing from the highly centralised oligarchic corporatocracy.. among others.

You get 2.5 votes a day to be a member of the anti-abuse duty followers, it costs you nothing, but, so far, you have chosen to not play the part of the heavy.
Very few of us want to spend our days exposing, and expunging, liars, for less than nothing, but that is what has to happen for your stake to have value.
Just watch what happens to them other chains, eh?
They don't want to be the heavies, either.

We have the opportunity to be a fount of abundance, probably should support that, iyam.
Even if it means being mean to some people who can't color within the lines.

Games have rules, or there is no game, only a struggle for survival.
Currently, I think, you are on the wrong side of this.
Though I agree we will make more friends with honey than vinegar.

Come on over to the dark side and help keep the conversation on the tracks?
I think you might change your opinion once you have seen what is there.

The rewards made available via delegation to the numerous groups fighting plagiarism and spam make them massively more able to do so than I am able to match. My time is better spent achieving the goals I have set out to achieve with Hive and I don't have a problem leaving plagiarism combat to those who are rewarded for doing so - however, there are issues that need to be addressed in that scenario which I am helping to address here. My stake is not really big enough to make much of a downvote dent, but if a curation group is setup that shares my values then I might consider joining their downvote trail. That being said, as with all trails - I would never recommend anyone to join a trail without regularly checking on what it does.

I personally suspect that reducing free downvotes to 1 per day might be enough to bring greater balance - but ultimately, if people are going to 'abuse' downvoting, similarly to how people 'abuse upvoting' and they refuse to stop voluntarily then without a hardfork of some kind or everyone moving to layer 2, it may be necessary to set up counter downvote trails.. This would be highly inefficient, but that is part of the problem - the 'pool protection' is highly inefficient and open to biases at this point - systemic design changes are massively more effective when done right. Doing the systemic redesign effectively, requires significant amounts of experimentation, which is another reason why low cost layer 2 projects are essential.

but if a curation group is setup that shares my values then I might consider joining their downvote trail

Here is one.
Here is one with more people in it.

I would never recommend anyone to join a trail without regularly checking on what it does.

Great, that is what most folks in these rooms are doing now.

it may be necessary to set up counter downvote trails..

Got that covered, too.

These are all long term initiatives made possible by people who care.
I look forward to you joining the conversations.

which is another reason why low cost layer 2 projects are essential.

You will find like minded people there, several think layer 1 rewards need to go.
I don't share that opinion.
I think we need to adjust the crowd to the rules, and not the rules to the crowd.
It's a life long affliction.

Thanks, yes, I am due to work on @freezepeach's code at some point to improve it's functionality. They need as much help as the community can give. I will try to find time to engage with the groups you linked, but I have needed to clone myself to get everything done, going back 20 years.. so have limited time!

Yeah, I have a hard time finding time to keep up with what all is happening, too.
Thanks for chipping in what you can.
We need more perspectives, imo.