War: group of people in power, politicians with their colleagues with the same interest, sending common people against each other.
So, no war is ever about common people and their interests; if so, there would not be any.
About this war it can be discussed primarily from the history point or present time. History perspective is useful for better understanding but I will talk about what is happening now.
So many thought were wondering around my mind following different Telegram and forum groups that give info in real time; so many photos and videos that gave me sadness, anger and rage towards those who will survive for sure, but recklessly sending their citizens to certain death for..what?
One of those groups is https://t.me/intelslava, in english, others are in Serbian or Russian/Ukrainian. Some info are just from people living there or have family and/or friends in Ukraine and Russia.
I apologize in advance for maybe not enough structured text, but my thoughts and feelings are all around...
Ukraine has been large puppet country for US and NATO since 2014., where all kinds of illegal activities were "unseen" as long as gov served western interests. For example, how is possible to have a whole area of neo-Nazi citizens, even with military groups, and pretend you don.t see, or worse, that it is ok? And you are here to defend freedom and democracy, right?
Well, this is what US is doing: bringing democracy means bringing US rules; gov can do whatever they want, as long as they serve us an let us take all those great resources country has.
This is what those "soldiers" are capable of doing to other human beings; military battalion Azov, says guy on the video. very disturbing content!
After watching this, I felt literary, physically, sick.
Some might not agree about this, but then, here comes the history part :) Russian people have been maltreated by Bandera fans for years, specially in Donetsk area...
This is not new, US is feeding on others for a long time, covered by bringing democracy story. The recipe is > take any country that has some resources and can be place for putting NATO army, make war, put puppet gov, take resources and leave common people with same problems.
is there a better business than war? source
I live in a country that felt this liberating moment by countless depleted uranium bombs; today we have tyrant president who was willing to sell everything that he could, including citizens (working in foreign factories in unbelievable conditions, but that is different story), and the country is not in the Middle east, or Africa, or Asia, but in very same "democratic" Europe, which supports mentioned tyrant.
Further, China is also autocratic country, and US has no intention bringing democracy there? Why?
Also, cannot see that US and EU have problem with autocracy in countries where have deals with govs for oil; or in countries where children labor is highly present, while those children are starving.
Many examples, details can be found online, who wants to dig dipper.
Point is, hypocrisy and double standards, in line with interests: those rules are for you but not for us...bcs...we can.
Media, oh dear, beloved, objective windows to the world :roleeyes:
How media are covering war? Lying and pushing anti Russian propaganda, how else. I mean, you cannot say that aggressor is actually behaving more civil and human towards citizens than your own army, can you? False stories about captured Russian officers, about whole brigade dead while they are just captured and let go after signing that will never again participate in military actions, telling stories about winning while almost no man form your army is left at the certain area.
Now in panic, Ukrainian army and now also civilians to whom weapons were given, destroying bridges and other infrastructure, trying to make it harder for Russian army to reach certain points. So far, they made more damage than Russians. There is a video where can be seen how UA army bomb, sent from the playground in the very center of the city, is hitting a civilian building. Who know how many people died of friendly fire, that later will be pronounced as victims of opposite side.
My brother has friends in Ukraine. He asked how they are, what is happening in their area and what they can tell from first hand experience. I don.t believe that they have reasons to lie, since is just friendly talk. We were happy to hear that they are ok and that not complaining about Russian army. They said Russians are avoiding battles in populated areas as much as possible, mainly rounding the city/village and ask that people lie down weapons and will be no harm done. Many of them did that and truly, were not killed or molested, at least not that someone knows.
Where the resistance is intense, ofc that military actions are intense and that there are dead.
One friend said that he got msg form a friend in Chernobyl that some angry and freaked out UA soldiers wanted to blow up reactor coffin but luckily were prevented. UA is very angry that their "allies" left them alone, breaking promises made just some days ago.
Could this war be avoided? YES
Why it was not? Because US did not want to make step back on their way to establish more power on east. On the other hand, Russia did not want to let them. Clash of Titans.
In which common people are dying. Which will be, after all damage, ended around table, signing shiny papers of truce, while every side will tell to their people that they are the ones who won a war.
Yeah, tell that to those who you sent to death and their families. Tell that to those who are left behind alive but with some body part missing. Tell that to people with no food for days and no place to live in future days. Tell that to all those tax payers on whose account all material damage will be rehabilitated.
Congrats, you won. And when I say you, I mean selfishness, greed, carelessness, irrationality, ignorance, psychopathy... all the best characteristics of human beings, specially politicians.
RIP all victims :(
Six day war is an old song, dedicated to another war, but is timeless.
P.S. Have to underline that non any of this is against people in US or any other country, just against politicians which politics makes our lives miserable. Families suffered much pain for their loses in wars that they were convinced should happen, that their sons and brothers and fathers and husbands were heroes; I prefer for every person to have alive loved one than dead hero.
We are all being manipulated all the time, is just the question of critical mass when propaganda will pass.
We'll never know what would've happened in case the western world would've never kinda opened the doors for Ukraine to become part of EU, and/or NATO. In my country the respected deep research journalists basically say over and over again: Ukraine would never have become part of EU and/or NATO. Having the doors a little opened is because of politics. They may be right, I donno to be honest. What we do know, is that Ireland is stating just today they want that door to be opened more. if thats good? I dont know. Even if we would've had those doors 100% closed at all times, we don't know what Putin would've done. His (regime) statement of just an hour or two ago, to get his nuclear weapons teams in alert status seems to me Putin is a crazy man. It doesn't look like the war in Ukraine is going as he planned. Bringing nuclear weapon teams in a high alert state because the world is cutting off his banks from SWIFT, is a crazy act. He must know, the western world will not stop cutting him and his regime from the financial system, so where will this lead to? I'm not saying USA and the rest of the western world are all good. Also I wonder about the open doors for Ukraine and EU and NATO since it sounds logical Putin want neutral ground between Russia's borders and western borders. That said, I believe Putin doesn't have his two feet on the ground, already for a long time. With such peeps, one can't make an agreement that one can trust. I believe, we already gave Putin too much trust with all our dependencies on him and his country for gas. Around Europe, we see a few 'crazy' men in charge, dictators if you will, of which Putin and Erdogan are the two most well-known ones. It seems both these guys are dreaming of being some kind of emperor of a large area. On the topic of propaganda: Am pretty sure this is the case in the western world. But this is at least the same in Russia itself. Personally, I do hope very very soon the war stops, the Russian army leaves Ukraine and all will be back to diplomacy. Am afraid though, this is not gonna happen anytime soon.
I don.t think nukes are getting ready bcs of SWIFT but bcs west is supporting Zelensky to stay in battles promising weapons and people instead of supporting negotiations.
On his side, he is willing to sacrifice his people, including civilians, for the ...glory?
UA people are dying a lot from friendly fire, and inside the populated area military is putting tanks in front of the buildings to protect themselves; is that heroic behavior? If we are to die, let us bring as much others as we can? There are lot of videos from the terrain in which those actions can be seen...
Speaking about crazy men, those are western leaders now. Putting oil in the fire while their asses are safe and ready to be photographed as saviors :roleeyes:
Sure, propaganda is strong on both sides, but also a lot of it is stupid, like putting the same photos of people that "died" or were injured somewhere else, now as victims of this war.
Humans casualties is ALWAYS something not wanted, also I am against any form of war.
What do you believe in? Ukraine to stop fighting? and what will happen then?
How do you think we can prevent Putin to go into the Baltic states? Or at a minimum cut of transportation routes to and from Baltic states? And what about a possible expansion wish to former Warsaw Pact countries?
I think the situation is less straightforward than you may think. I, like many others, wonder what will happen when we let Putin do whatever he wants to do. This weekend he only wanted to negotiate when Ukraine ceased fire, ie capitulate. Not a very healthy start. By now, he changed his mind. Possibly because his plan is not working out to take over Ukraine. When the rest of the world would not interfere at all, when and where will Putin stop?
What I believe in is that Ukrainian soldiers are now desperate; they did not get promised help and now went astray, having no mercy towards infrastructure and civilians, which I believe is in vain, just causing much more victims than it could.
I do not believe that Putin is a threat to countries that you have mentioned, at least not at this point in time.
I don.t understand why you think that I think situation is straightforward.
Talking about doing what someone wants, I wonder same for years, for the US, why their gov is allowed to do whatever it wants? Putin did not want to let them. Now I might ask, if Putin did not interfere, where US would stop? At the borders of China?
For someone who has been following situation in that regions for some time, it is clear what impact had and has US and what they wanted.
But all this is contemplating in level of principle. In level of sane human, as I said, am against war.
I hate the hypocrisy of western world> when US is destroying countries for its own benefit is ok but when someone else is doing it is wrong. Both are wrong. Just take a look at what countries were "liberated" by US and say, is it ok? Now they are doing the same just this time through proxy-UA.
Further, should this be cover of the magazine? Like in Orvel.s 1984 -war is peace
And what about this? If someone on the east said something like that would be imprisoned in a second
And many other examples... so let.s not take things for granted that US is good guys as they branded themselves and everyone else bad. They are equally bad and should be treated accordingly.
And for the end, I have to mention my wonder about all this cry over Ukrainian civilians online, but when info about help for refugees is given to be shared, it is not? Is something wrong with my post or some other that I have seen giving info about actual help possibilities instead of chit-chat how terrible all this is?
Though I understand you compare the history of the US with this situation, I don't believe they are comparable at all. Regarding US/Western World, for sure not everything is hunky-dory to state the least. In the case of Ukraine, I believe the US/western (and part of the eastern) world do what they must do. Ukraine asks for help, and they get the help that can be given. I would even think, when Ukraine wouldn't have asked for support, they would not have gotten any, ie the weapons I mean, as well as the sanctions. Interestingly, the Ukrainian government thinks the 'western' world is like a bunch of pussies, not giving him all the support he is asking for.
Putin and the danger. We disagree on this one. If Putin is allowed to do whatever in Ukraine, ie Ukraine giving in to the demands of Putin and subsequently will execute whatever his mid/longer-term plan is for Ukraine, he will pick his next target knowing he can continue to extend his borders/influence with force without repercussions. It also seems Ukraine peeps don't want to capitulate and added to that something like 100k individuals from outside Ukraine arrived in Ukraine to pick the battle, I suppose as volunteers. No US or western government is involved in this.
Though I only know one person in Ukraine and I know his opinion, I believe most of the Ukrainian people share his opinion: They don't want the Russian army in their country. I believe most of them want to live in peace and harmony in their own free country whilst they don't care about the roots being Ukrainian or Russian. And that is what they are fighting for.
Haven.t been on Hive for a while (your post says a month) thus being late to reply.
My point is not to convince anyone but to try motivate them to take a look at more info so it would be clearer what is really happening and how we came to this point.
When you say they do what they have to, same can be said for Russia: someone was terrorizing R people in Donbas area for 8 years, neoNazis ruled there and they did what they had to. Also, same with Puting doing whatever he wants - isn.t that exactly what US has been doing since WWII? Why then having different criteria for others? I can understand that someone might fear or prefer US way of life but that is not an argument. So, if you say you are pro US and want them to rule the world bcs you like them, I will accept that as a part of your personality, but if you have different criteria for same behavior, will think of you as ignorant of hypocrite or whatever not good. That is the point. Personal characteristics cannot be argument for people who are about to discuss on the level of critical thinking. Point is to distinguish between personal feelings and facts which many people cannot do and that is why are so easy to manipulate. And who wants facts about this war should dig much deeper, in the time before Maidan and what US gov was doing and saying then. Also, there are so many videos from different sources but European "democracy" banned everything from Internet; and why is that? so no one can see the other side of the story. At this point, whole Europe is behaving exactly like one who they are fighting with...not to mention that, while Russian cats are banned from competitions, gas is still flowing...
From my point of view it's not preferring a US way of living, but living in freedom. In Europe, US, and many other parts of the world, a lot of lives have been sacrificed in the many battles for freedom over the last 1000s of years. I wish for all societies to be able to live in as much freedom as possible. We all can see the real intentions of Putin. That has nothing to do with the cruelties that happened in Donbas area, its just an excuse he is using to control Ukraine. If it was for Donbas only, then he should've gone into that area alone. But he didn't. He targets the whole coast of Ukraine for the simple reason to have total control over Ukraine by controlling all harbours. The result of this is, freedom taken away from Ukraine society. Recently we've seen the brutality of Russian army. Maybe similar brutality as the groups that you call neo-nazis used against the Russian peeps in Donbas, I don't deny that, nor underwrite it since I simply don't know. Bottom line, Putin real intentions are to control about 40M peeps in Ukraine, which essentially means taking away some to more freedom from Ukraine peeps while Ukraine peeps show the world they dont want to be taken away their freedom. Because the Ukrains dont want the Russian army in their conuntry, want to fight them, want their freedom from Russia, I agree with the support the western world is giving Ukraine, which is essentially weapons to defend themselves. Gas and all still flowing: if it was up to me, we would've stopped buying gas from Russia a long time ago. I have no idea how long this all will take, but I predict an end of Putin as a ruler of Russia. He started his own end. If what happens after him will be better or not, only time will tell.
Regarding censoring content in Europe: I'm not sure what you mean. Can you point out what exactly is censored and how this is done? For instance in my country, no content is blocked by the ISPs (internet service providers). We have no law that says to block certain types of content other than maybe a pirate bay (while I still can access that service). And yes, I do not believe our Dutch government have (certain) control over our ISPs outside our public view forcing them to block specific services (which is not me being naive). And yes, EU banned two media stations, something that is not my choice, to be honest. That said, many other Russian news agencies and stations are still available, including TASS and Infradax.
😢