Is Modern Society Obsessed With Short Term Pleasure?

in #psychology8 years ago

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Introduction


Something I have been thinking about for some time is the issue of short term versus long term pleasure.

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A while back I wrote a review of Mark Manson's book - “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck”.

One of the points he makes in that book is that focussing on short term pleasures does not lead to long term happiness or contentment.

Another book I read recently - Simon Sinek's "Leaders Eat Last" elaborates on some of these concepts further.

One of Sinek's central hypotheses is that a focus on short term pleasure in modern society is responsible for a lot of the failures in modern business practice and lack of leadership.

It also results in the boom and bust cycle which we witness in the markets over and over again.

It appears to me that the fast pace of modern society has lead to a focus on the short term highs of immediate pleasure to the detriment of long term contentment.

I think if we look at the contemporary society we can see countless examples of this here are a few:

  • Overeating, gambling and addictive behaviours in general.
  • Company CEOs who risk the long term viability of their companies to maximise short term profits and their own bonuses.
  • FOMO in the stock markets and markets in general.

Immediate Pleasure Versus Long Term Satisfaction


I think we need to draw a distinction between the two main forms of pleasure.

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We are somewhat hampered here by language as we use the same words interchangeably and that inevitably leads to confusion.

There is the short term pleasure — the “high” or “dopamine rush” as some would call it.

This is our immediate motivator for action and makes us feel good in the short term — but it doesn’t last long and we become tolerant to it fast.

There is also another form of pleasure which comes from long term achievement.

Satisfaction is perhaps a good way to describe this and it comes from sustained achievement and work over a long period.

— Think of completing a big project at work, succeeding in gaining a large contract after months of effort and so forth.

Not only are these things we work on over time but they often involve teamwork and collaboration.

They give our lives meaning and help to create the long term feelings of satisfaction, achievement and fulfilling goals.

They are often costly in time, money and other resources. They are also not immediately pleasurable.

These two different types of pleasure are in constant conflict within our psychology but it seems that in modern society the short term pleasures tend to win out.


The Hedonic Treadmill


I have previously discussed the concept of the hedonic treadmill and I believe this gives a more technical way of understanding this:

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The concept was originally developed by Brickman and Campbell in 1971 (unfortunately I have been unable to access the original paper online).

A later paper (and book chapter) by Kahneman [1] has a nice summary:

"Brickman and Campbell (1971) based their conception of the hedonic treadmill on a notion of adaptation level, which Helson (1964) had introduced earlier to explain phenomena of adaptation in perception and judgment. Anyone who has bathed in a cool pool, or in a warm sea, will recognize the basic phenomenon. As one adapts, the experience of the temperature of the water gradually drifts toward 'neither hot nor cold', and the experience of other temperatures changes accordingly. A temperature that would be called warm in one context may feel cool in another. Brickman and Campbell proposed that a similar process of adaptation applies to the hedonic value of life circumstances."

This adaptation phenomenon is vital for motivation. If it didn't occur we would just do one enjoyable thing and never be motivated to do anything further again!

We can see clues to why it emerged in our evolutionary history. Life was very tough for our distant ancestors - just eating would have required massive struggles and life-threatening risks.

Pleasure existed as a means to keep them motivated. — It was a reward that kept them going through the pain and the challenges so that they could survive.

That pleasure was scarce though. Doing anything to bring it on required a lot of hard work and effort.

This is not the case in modern society where food and various other types of pleasure are immediately accessible.

I believe that it is that sustained work and achieving long term goals that leads to the long term pleasure - the situation of feeling contented and happy.

The problem is that those short term pleasures can blind you to the value of long term contentment.


The Addiction Component


As many of you who have been following me for some time know, I have had problems with addiction myself.

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It would seem I am not alone though. According to US government statistics published in September 2015:

Approximately 21.5 million people aged 12 or older in 2014 had a substance use disorder (SUD) in the past year, including 17.0 million people with an alcohol use disorder, 7.1 million with an illicit drug use disorder, and 2.6 million who had both an alcohol use and an illicit drug use disorder.

I believe that addiction is the result of becoming overly obsessed with short term pleasure. It is an attempt to beat the hedonic treadmill and as a result it is doomed to failure.

Ultimately you can't fight your own biology.

It is also a perfect example of the detrimental effect that instant pleasures can have on a person's life.

Nobody would call an addict happy or indeed healthy. The thing is you don't have to be an overt addict to engage in addictive behaviours.

Certain modern manifestations of addiction may not even be widely recognised yet (e.g. social media addiction or mobile phone addiction).


Conclusion


I wanted to keep this short because I believe this is a good topic for discussion and that is why I haven't listed off a long ream of examples - there is no way I could cover everything and it would make the post so long that nobody would read it.

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To summarise my personal belief is that there is a fundamental imbalance in modern life that encourages the pursuit of short term pleasure (highs) to the detriment of long term contentment and happiness.

I believe this touches all fields of life from business to people's personal lives.

What do you think? Have you seen examples of this yourself? Were you someone who became stuck in this sort of pursuit yourself?

Please let me know in the comments.


References


  1. Kahneman, D. (2000). Experienced utility and objective happiness: A moment-based approach. In D.Kahneman & A. Tversky (Eds.), Choices, values and frames (pp. 673-692). New York: Cambridge
    University Press and the Russell Sage Foundation.

Thank you for reading


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I think people are getting more and more comfortable. Look at how many marriages fail. People get tired really fast about everything. And life is about effort and sacrifice to achieve your goals.

How many people won't even stay here for a month to build some reputation. Everything is a chore these days. Some of my friends even say it is 'too late' now to join. Just because they are lazy.

This is something I have seen as well that saddens me.

I actually think it is the other way around. I think a lot of people are seeking short term pleasure to distract from the fact that the long term picture isn't looking good for people in the under 30 demographic.

A house, long term savings, retirement, job security, etc. are all pretty unattainable for such a big portion of the population, including a large and growing number of former middle class. But for some, consumer goods, luxury food and drink items, etc. are affordable and make you feel like you are working for something for now. It sounds irresponsible, but it is really soul crushing to just work your ass off day in and day out at a terrible dead end job with nothing to show for it for years on end, only to have your meager savings repeatedly wiped out by car/health/housing emergencies.

To me, the most glaring example of this is the massive expansion in debt across the entire world in the last few decades.

On a political level, debt allows politicians to buy off their constituents without having to make hard choices related to the budget.

On a personal level, debt allows us to buy that house, car, boat, etc. that we've had our eye on without putting in the work and saving that should be necessary.

In both cases, the debt eventually catches up with us and we end up spending the vast majority of what we have on interest instead of things that you want in the future.

I think the same principle applies in life: if you sacrifice future gain for present stimulation, you'll end up paying for it in the future.

Yep, nailed it, our government is really just a reflection of how most of us operate. Most, not all!

Superb point! Debt is the perfect example of this philosophy at work. Instant gratification in exchange for future work.

On average in the USA, a worker (me, you?) will have about $2 million pass through their (our) hands in a lifetime. It seems to me that we're in some trouble, because in order to enjoy a decent retirement, one needs to have approximately $2.5 million saved in a retirement account when we retire. I don't care what the financial experts say, unless one invests ones money just right, it's not even a possibility.

Many of my coworkers don't have a penny to their name and they are in their mid 40s!!

Now I do what I can to scrimp and save....but you're right....living for the now vs. living for the future is an epidemic. I'm in my mid 30s and my grandparents worked as hard as they could and they barely had a decent retirement to fall back on, and they DIDN'T have all this debt that we are saddled with today.

We get conflicting messages from financial institutions regarding saving for retirement. The financial industry wants people plowing as much money as possible into their retirement products, while central banks artificially suppress interest rates (which affect the value of every other asset) to encourage spending now instead of saving. The level of risk in any investment (including putting money in a savings account) has skyrocketed, and the vast majority of society doesn't know how to deal with this.

With 25% of Millenials living with their parents and not working or studying, we're already beginning to see a shift back to family living models that we thought we'd left in the past. I think you'll see more and more elderly care taken on by adult children to save on nursing home costs.

For me, the science is convincing that "retirement" is bad for your health and that continuing with some kind of work until you physically can't anymore is the best way to live.

$2.5 million?!?! maybe so, if you stay in the "First World"! I didn't, and so far have been able to stretch a half million far enough to own a big house, drive a nice but old Honda and raise a family. Had to learn another language to be able to do it, though...

Costa Rica? :)

I think a great component in the pleasure equation is our feelings. Almost all people that I have met with some kind of addiction had trouble distinguishing the rational from the emotional.

This relates directly to our evolutionary roots like you mentioned. Emotions are essentially instincts on steroids.

The emotional person fails to rationally bypass the present and is fearful either of the future ( anxiety) or the past (depression).

Very good point and I have found that I have been at my worst when it came to the drinking at periods when I was overly emotional. I have also come across people who use things like alcohol to counter overly rational tendencies - "come out of their shell" as the saying goes. As with most things there is a delicate balance that seems to be best.

Our attention spans these days are so short that we need something new stimulation at all times.Even in movies and TV shows these days the camera shots last only a second or two and are quickly cutting from one scene to the next and one view to the next whereas in older movies camera shots were much longer as peoples concentration could be held for longer. Everything we do nowadays requires instant gratification or it is not a worthwhile endeavor. Just as well we have opposable thumbs.....for swiping smartphone screens. :) Thanks for the post buddy!

Thanks for commenting. I think the example you give of TV and movies is a brilliant one and something that becomes really noticeable if you watch old movies and media for comparison. The need for constant stimulation can be addictive in itself and I believe this is an example of pandering to it.

Definitely agree with that. Addiction to multi-media and social networking in my view is something that we really need to keep a watchful eye on. Especially with our children these days it seems like all other activities have taken a back seat.

Never though about this, but it's a good point, i have noticed new movies have an insane amount of cut scenes, almost makes you dizzy! Going to have to go back and watch some older movies to analyze this a bit more.

Great post, everyone is addicted to small time pleasures, if people would have focussed on long term goals, they would be more happy with their life and would be less frustrated while dealing with others. People risk everything to achieve these small term goals. I think not even 0.01% people of the world are able to find out what small term goals/pleasures and what long term goals are and of those who pursue it, they are leading the world in their specific areas. This is the only difference between leaders and followers.

Thanks. Yes it is a common phenomenon in modern society.

True story.

Thanks so much for this awesome article @thecryptofiend. I have had addictions to social media particularly facebook. I have had so many problems in life that I used facebook to entertain myself by following some comedians. It was helpful, but later became a problem as it was effecting my work negatively as well. I wouldn't fully concentrate on anything but facebook. But my phone got spoiled, and I didn't have money to repair it, or get a knew one, so my activities on social media got hampered; that was how I got free from social media addiction. RESTEEMED!!

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think one of the hallmarks of any kind of dependency/addiction is when it starts affecting other aspects of your life like work. At that point it starts to become pathological.

No doubt, thats why I love working with the plants and nature, slows our senses down. Great write up

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Tijo-

Are you a gradener? I love gardening. I also am working with citrus on the Citrus Greening disease issue.

Yes @liatrissaga we have a little farm here in the jungle, grow many fruits, medicinal plants and roots!

Its about finding a balance that fits you. Also being aware of consequences that are caused by either immediate pleasure or sacrificing for the future. You dont want to stay too long on on either end of the spectrum. Great topic!

Yes I agree. Thanks!

Unfortunately, with anything there are negatives along with positives. In our current world of social media everything is instant gratification to the Nth degree. Cell phones too!

There is no anticipation, no build up. Ex. - In college, I would call my girlfriend at the time before I left to drive back up to school. Then I'd have to wait 3 hrs to talk or see her again, thus anticipation, excitement could build up and you appreciate the moment when you get there more.

If it were now I could just be on my cell phone with her half the ride and then not even be amped up to see her when I arrived...LOL

Yes that is a very good point. Anticipation heightens the perception and magnitude of the reward.

People have always been obsessed with short term pleasure. They also enjoy long term pleasure, but Americans are different than most people in the world. We get most of our pleasure vicariously, scrolling through to see what other people have gotten off their tails to actually make, build, or do.

Yes but I think the modern world and not just America seems to promote it more.

I'm studying Persia, history, language, philosophy, modern. It's just the U.S. and Western Europe really. It's hard to get a larger view of the world. I love art, culture, history. If I were rich, I would travel everywhere to see it all.

I think in the West we tend to live in a sort of bubble where we don't really think about the rest of the world. It is a big problem.

Wow, this is a very cool post, I'm surprised to see this, very people who love it, including me.
You can combine everything, one of them is very good photo, I like that.
Hopefully I can learn to make a good post like you. @thecryptofiend

Awesome article! Totally agree! It is hard to be patient in today's society with so many short term options.

Yes. Thanks:)

Great post. My next will be about addictions. Voted.

I have an awful habit of putting things off until later, if I actually finish a task completely I am over the moon for ages, so proud of myself . I love to see things complete but its easier said that done in my house :)

I think we all have a tendency to do that!

Great piece, I definitely catch myself taking the easy way out too often and it can be difficult to break out of habits that offer short term pleasure. Do you have a link the review you wrote on Mark Manson's book? I thought it was a great read, but I'd love to know your take on it.

Great article!

I guess if we apply the same analogy to Steemit, short and long term goals should produce substantial amounts of pleasure for us either way! But yes, people are always looking for that quick fix to get that temporary "high" which doesn't last long.

Foresight and planning could provide somewhat of a remedy to that.

Exactly. I think as with all things a balanced approach is best:)

I'd never heard the term "hedonic treadmill" before but I find the concept really helpful in visualizing the stagnating force that is effortlessly-earned instant gratification. Lately I've been thinking a lot about how long-range planning toward fulfilling one's goals is so much more rewarding than short-term pleasures (entertainment, drugs, etc.) so your article really encouraged me to continue thinking about this topic in order to reassess my hierarchy of values. Great article!

Yes I have been thinking along similar lines myself. For much of my life I think I had the balance shifted in the wrong direction.

Thanks for commenting mate and so nice to see you are back.

Have you started posting again? Let me know if you do (send me a link in the chat).

I can relate - and I also realize that by emphasizing short-term rewards over long-term achievement, I'd been implementing a myopic sort of behaviorism on myself by "rewarding" my immediate successes with hedonistic escapism, which in effect paradoxically demotivated me from actually realizing those long-term goals. Anyway, your article's clearly got me thinking about all this!

I'm hoping to finally get a short post up sometime in the next few weeks, and I'll definitely send you the link! In the meantime, I'll be reading your content and catching up with whatever developments I've missed on Steemit during my absence. :) Glad to see you're still very active here.

Cool I look forward to seeing it!

Some nice aspects discussed here, thankyou...

Humans discount the future - therefore, even if they can get less, quickly, they will often take it. Like, a person offered a 30 minute massage now or an hour massage next week, will likely take the 30 minute one now.

Yes it is a natural tendency but as with all things for good mental health a balance is needed.

Society is extremely extroverted towards materialism and hierarchical power positioning. What can be expected?
Hope society curves its trajectory soon because I don't like living under conditioning.

I hope so too.

Is it all really so black and white?
Sometimes I just want to be in my emotional self, to really experience the emotion I'm having. Being emotional is part of life. If I really want to experience a loss... so that I can pick up from it later, what lessons there are in life from the experience, then so be it.
And so it is; it's fun sometimes to have temporary pleasure. Enough, that I can put that behind me at some point, recognize it's failings, and be done with it, or practice those things only socially.

No it's rarely black and white. It is about balance.

Great post. Really accurate assessment of current mentalities.

I've noticed this quite a bit in my peers relating to employment and job satisfaction. Not sure if anyone else sees this happen in their circles, but it seems like people are jumping from job to job with quite a bit more frequency nowadays. No one seems to place any value on long-term commitment, or loyalty, and no one is staying in one company for more than a year.

As a general observation, this kind of behaviour is propagating a lack of depth in the way work is being done. No one is taking the time to develop or understand their work, it is all very surface, and bare minimum.

Thanks, yes I agree. Modern society is very much style over substance.

Do you have any idea for a solution of sorts? or are we doomed due to our biology and all that is left is to recognize all the different variations of addictions out there?

The only solution I can think of is to be aware of it and change your own behaviour.

do you think perhaps, that if there was a way to teach balance in life to people, say from earlier education studies, i.e. with the use of meditation or mindfulness or yoga as part of academic studies, that it would reduce the addiction level? maybe not the pursuit of (short term) pleasure on a daily basis, but balance between multiple streams of pleasures that can reduce the addiction to a single one, so neither one consumes a person...

Yes it is possible

Really enjoyed this posting. People get too hyped and caught up in short term pleasures. Everything just moves at such a fast pace rather than people taking a step back and slowly, embracing it all.

Thanks yes, very much so.

As the jobs are taken by AI and mechanization, people are going to have to find new ways of deriving meaning in life. If this involves an economy of instant gratifications​ and leisure​e, im not sure how big of a deal that really is. Everyone is worried about the addiction, I dont find it to be too worrying.

I think you completely miss the point. Addictions don't give anything meaning so I'm puzzled by your statement.

Well, I think you are right about there being a distinction between the two forms of pleasure. I am commenting on how the changing work landscape and such is going to require shifts in how humans experience pleasure and derive meaning. I find addiction to be much more complicated than you make it out to be. What do you find puzzling​?

I am commenting on how the changing work landscape and such is going to require shifts in how humans experience pleasure and derive meaning.

I have to disagree on that. These things are not as flexible to change as you appear to be suggesting. These things are pretty much hard wired into our psychology but I am happy to look at any literature that suggests otherwise - I just haven't seen it yet.

I find addiction to be much more complicated than you make it out to be.

In what way?

What do you find puzzling​?

The idea that you think think that addiction and addictive behaviours are not a problem and that somehow AI and changes to the work environment would make them less damaging.

That is a fundamental misunderstanding of what addiction is and means.

The underlying fundamentals may remain the same, how exactly we derive pleasure and meaning may very well have to change. Forces of the mass are stronger than anything.

About addiction, I don't know how much I can accurately distill into typed text - writing is not my strong suit. There is simply less concern about the safe addict in a society with so much automation, universal basic income, isolation from dangers. - don't let this diminish the problems with addiction, I just do not view it as something that can be tackled head on.

I think I see what you are saying -i.e. people will have less responsibilities?

Yes in a way. Focus on providing help and stop wasting money "punishing" people who have damaged their pleasure systems.

Also I hope I am not coming across overly harsh! I love a good debate but sometimes one can't convey tone very well and it comes across as very harsh - I appreciate the discussion :)

Your one of the smart ones here on steem. I always love your posts and comments.

Same goes for me - often text with my pooor writing makes my language come across as very harsh or condescending. I never mean any of it! :(

You are too kind!

Definitely agree with this @thecryptofiend infact I see this alot with almost everything, people want easy fast sort term satisfaction and in the end they continue to be unhappy.

Yes thanks - I think there is an imbalance and that leaves people ultimately unhappy.

Congratulations @thecryptofiend!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following categories:

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I think its pretty clear that we are... look at all the marketing that is used for pretty well everything.

Thank you for the beautiful article! This is really a problem of the modern world - the search for instant gratification! My children are also threatened by the temptations of this world! Personally, I am looking for salvation in Jesus!

Good Post @thecyptofiend, it is true, so many things to talk about the topic and so many things to learn everyday. Good luck! keep writing...

I think overall the most important things are personal growth and love. If these 2 thing just fade away, people will start to get depressed little by little. The regret will come in and it makes your life heavier. So its important to push yourself in some kind of beneficial direction. The harder the goal, the more enjoiable the achievement. Good article! @thecryptofiend :)

Very good article, @thecryptofiend! Nice formatting and perfect length. It's not too long for our short attention span. We want short term pleasure in every situation. Even to get some knowledge from such articles. Best is to only read the headline and know everything ;-)
Since I started with meditation some weeks ago, I thought about this topic too. Many people are simply "not there", "not in the moment". They only rush from one diversion (best diversion: a fast dopamin rush) to another. We're getting more and more "zombie". So lets all a bit more aware, especially self-aware!

Thanks - yes meditation is a useful way for taking a pause from modern life!

very good post, one of many examples I can think of is when someone posts something on twitter or Facebook and keeps checking to see if it has any likes or replies.
I found myself doing that when I first started using them.

I think many people do that.

Well done @thecryptofiend! Agree in general, and the pleasure trap is one all of us have fallen in at some point. There's another aspect to this, and that's the habitual seeking out of "uncomfort." Now, the level of uncomfort you seek is up to you, but I use that concept to balance out the vacuous pleasures I drift through daily. I'm not self-flagellating, but as an example I've been taking cold showers every day of the week except Fridays. It's made my Friday shower way more enjoyable, I feel like I sleep better after a cold shower, and in general is a good reminder that I can still do uncomfortable things. It seems to make it that much easier to turn away from short-term pleasure potential. Exercising willpower by stepping into a full force cold stream of water seems to me to strengthen it, and I like having that much more control of my reaction to visceral experience. Again, thanks for writing this up, keep 'em coming!

Thanks. I have been trying the cold shower method on and off - I don't think I am tough enough to keep it up though!

You can do it! :) I found it was better to commit to 6 days a week of cold and 1 day a week (Fridays!) of warm. Makes it so you have something to look forward to. Get 'em!

Fast, fast, fast. That's the whole idea behind modern civilization. No one seems to find any equilibrium. Especially when you find inequality between wanting to move fast when the world slows down, and vice versa. There is a discontent which pushes people toward instant gratification.

I think you are right.

We did not get here over night. Think back to the 1950's when we first got McDonalds and fist food. Think about when mom got the first modern kitchen also in the 1950's to get her in the workforce and make more money to have a faster life. Think fifty years earlier to the automobile. The radio and TV made communication faster. We are in a world of instant gratification. Think even the internet. We no longer have to go to the library to research our info. Fast cars, fast sex and fast money. Instant gratification and we loose virtue of patience and have become a selfish me people. This is against how God wants us to be. It will be the destruction of America.

Yes it is true that it has been a gradual process but it seems to be accelerating due to technology.

It has accelerated with technology. However folks probably said the same thing about the acceleration when they mass produced the graham bell phone, automobile, radio etc. It has been like a gradual snowball getting bigger and gaining speed as it rolls down the hill. Just wait until they have all the technology you need in a chip in your hand. no more need of cell phones or laptops. There is usually a trade off when you get something- you have to sacrifice something else for it. An example would be if you want to be protected from terrorists you give up your privacy for security or a false security depending how you look at it.

A lot of people want the instant gratification.

I think it's worse than that. They are obsessed with short term distraction from the fact that they have lost the connections to real life, real pleasure.

Just reading some other comments it seems that many see the same thing I see.

That is another way of putting it.

It is amazing how much we have been conditioned to inherently live in the "now". Patience, understanding, caring, humility, and spiritual connection are Gone. Love is more about convenience... we need help fokls...

Yes very true. We need balance.

Youth should wake up if they dont their future is doomed.

Nice article @thecryptofiend. It reminded of that song verse? I know what I want & I want it now!

I like reading stories of successful people and many times you read their "overnight success" only took them ten years. :-)

I have found, while I would like instant success, when it takes longer, after much resistance, its realization is much more appreciated, satisfying, and fun to recall many years later.

Exactly. Thanks for commenting!

Some short term pleasures just tire me out ;)

I blame this phenomenon on Capitalism and our constant need to have. Other cultures where people are closer, there's love in the air and a bond and community exists between friends and family aren't as affected by this social disease brought on by a system that constantly instigates us to have more things and get that quick fix .

Not sure it is capitalism itself but an extreme materialist interpretation that exists in the modern world. Right now capitalism is the best and fairest system we have. Communism in all it's forms failed because it did not take account of human nature.

I'm not a communist but I don't think it was ever practiced in its truest form. Greed is what drives capitalism, altruism is for bleeding hearts and the liberals. Call me a bleeding heart because if we keep going the way we are going this all for me and nothing for you system as Noam Chomsky describes real capitalism is going to blow up in our face. I've been reading another great depression is right around the corner. How will human nature react when that immediate gratification is not there to have anymore. Our generation doesn't understand true suffering. Should the store shelves go bare it's going to be a free for all. Its human nature.

Beautiful lady writing beautiful article. A gem!

Welcome to the modern age of spiritual narcissism @thecryptofiend :(

Sadly true:)

Here's an excellent article on it by @kobiespriggs - she's a bright philosophical Steemer on here. Her article was very thought provoking! Enjoy :)
https://steemit.com/spirituality/@kobiespriggs/spiritual-narcissism-rise-of-the-new-cultural-consumption

Interesting briefing about the major problem that society has, which is to find out the meaning of its existence nowadays. In my opinion, people are really selfish and they don't give a fuck about what others may think or not, they are only interested in to get what they want right at the moment and they do not think in long life to be fulfilled with a lot of achievements (good success at work, to build up a family, etc...). People have had everything from their date of birth and they have not learnt the culture of effort which is exactly what will bring them the success.

I can't disagree with that.

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