It'll be interesting to see if the Splinterlands community itself has enough HP to pass this proposal.
Talking about how other chains offer "better" handouts. Here the consumer or in this case the gamer has the ability to be the provider, and the support (in this case $2777 per day) comes at no real cost to that consumer/community, provided they've staked some HP and participate. If that potential was fully understood and realized, it becomes clear (at least to me), that deal is hard to beat.
I will not be supporting this proposal. I don't play the game. Was never my cup of tea. I liked seeing it here though.
Several years and thousands of people. Surely the Splinterlands community has enough HP to pass this and if not, I'd have to ask all how that's even possible. For years we're told it brings value to Hive, so where is it? The amount of fan art I've seen rewarded over the years for example. Surely rewarding/supporting that endless stream of content (which doubled as free marketing)would lead to receiving support in return for something like this proposal. Surely a game that paid players just for playing would lead to having the ability to support a proposal like this. Surely, after all these years, there's something to show for it. If not, there are some valuable lessons to be learned.
It takes roughly over 15% of the total staked HIVE in the entire system to get a proposal passed, so I think that's an impossibly high bar to expect of any project. I would venture to guess that there is no other project on Hive whose active users have more HP combined than the Splinterlands community.
I directly address this in the post:
We have purchased millions of HIVE tokens off of external markets, we have burned millions of HIVE tokens to create accounts, we have funded and initially designed and built two of the most widely used tools on the platform - Hive Engine and Hive Keychain - and we have brought thousands of users and tons of attention to the Hive blockchain during that time.
That being said, if you don't feel that this project has contributed enough to the Hive ecosystem, or will be able to contribute enough in the future, to warrant support from the DHF then I respect your opinion and your decision not to support the proposal.
This. I'd be shocked if the Splinterlands community isn't able to push this through.
I'll hang back. I don't know enough about Splinterlands and the community. Sure, you've done some great things in the past. Currently I'm not even sure if the Splinterlands community wants this. So I'm waiting to see how everyone feels about it, so I hope they show up.
My position has already been explained here so I won't repeat myself, and I also don't expect you to read any of it but if you want to, you can. It'll help clear up where I truly stand on this.
If it gets to the point where everyone has done everything they possibly can and still need help, that's when I'd feel confident supporting this is a good idea. It would be incredibly irresponsible of me to vote blindly or speak for a community I can't say I'm a part of.
My words again. The value can be observed when your community steps up to help on the day you need them the most. I want to see them participating in this rather than me participating so they don't have to.
P.S. The Hive Keychain Development Proposal is something I already support.
good to see your still here :)
That actually made me smile. Thanks.
good to see you're still here seeing good :)
me too
Its interesting that you think that the Splinterlands players should have enough HIVE to be able to pass this on their own. That would mean Splinterlands players have more HIVE than non-Splinterlands HIVE owners. Please note those players would also own all their ingame Splinterlands assets too.
Its up to you how you draw your valuable lessons in life, but its kind of a weird way to look at it if you ask me.
I don't think it's weird and your defensive tone makes me think you're misinterpreting my intention here.
The decentralized nature affords everyone the opportunity to have a say. So let's say a gaming community showed up here, on Hive. Thousands of them, eager to support a new project. A project that needs funding. That funding comes at no real cost. Each individual still owns their HP. If they want funding, they'd have a better chance of receiving it if they had their own HP. For instance, why should I support it when I don't even know those people and don't care about their product. It's not up to me, it's up to them. Since it's such a great deal and can lead to projects receiving funding, I think this behavior should be encouraged.
So yes, I stand by my words and think it'll be interesting to see if the Splinterlands community has enough HP to pass this. It's a valuable lesson in the sense other communities can see how communities and projects get funded here. That could lead to more interest in the chain and the token.
It's not Hive's fault if this proposal doesn't pass. The Splinterlands community is at fault. Hive is an inanimate object.
I don't want to support this because I'd rather encourage and see you all support yourselves. It's a good deal and should be embraced. Your success is not my responsibility.
I think there's enough support behind the Splinterlands community to pass this. If not, well, wtf? There's thousands of you. What happened to all the money? And now you want more? Those are some of the questions I'd be asking.
There is absolutely no way the Splinterlands community has enough HP on their own to pass this. If that was the case, Splinterlands would basically own the platform and we could ask for much more and always get it approved. That would be very unhealthy.
LEO community passed theirs. Some of them are also part of Splinterlands community. I don't see how encouraging the Splinterlands community to get behind this and support their own project with their own money is a bad thing.
I'm not saying that encouraging the Splinterlands community to support their own project is a bad thing. What I'm saying is that it is impossible to pass it with just our support. I doubt we'd even reach 50% of the necessary vote power.
And I think, after this many years and that many community members, that could change and together you can work towards self sustainability. Building up that foundation could have started several years ago but since it hasn't, perhaps today would be a good time to start.
I think it's coming from the wrong place to assume players hold HP, most I assume hold ingame assets and ingame currencies tied to spl. the @steemmonster account afaik even provides people with delegations, or did so in the past so they can play the game, now we moved onto RC being delegated itself which makes HP delegations obsolete for this task.
It would sure be nice if the game would place more notice or encourage players to become socially active on chain which, even though my opinions may be quite outdated, I didn't see much of in the past when on the website. With many users not even being aware that there was this whole other universe of things they could do with the keys and accounts they had paid for to get when diving into spl and with just very few artists and social users already aware of hive getting the benefits of curation.
At the end of the day, if we did have more projects like SPL there'd be a "hidden" cost and hodl pressure building both on the projects and our resource credits which ultimately means you'll need to acquire HP to provide your community with the freedom to transact.
We may have been a bit too early to jump the gun on making RC itself a pool that can be leased/bought, which I'm sure close to no one does at this time and even at the height of things barely anyone did with HP itself aside from leasing it for profit, barely anyone leased it for being able to use the chain or providing your community/players/product users with actions to use the blockchain. So getting to that place where RC is scarce and required may take an even longer time and bigger influx of users to reach now than it did before but in a way that also makes our chain more scalable even if we don't need it currently.
We're just way ahead of things on the backend it feels like and more focus should shift on actually bringing in people here, whether through games or some of our other countless projects that make web3 stand out from web2 with value going to users rather than just the creators.
I know the community exists though, even if they're quiet in the social arena. Just look at all the views Splinterlands posts receive locally. And if Splinterlands decides to go elsewhere because funding, those people go with them. And those people also lose ALL the benefits they could receive if they were to be the ones behind pushing this proposal through. Strong chance they're not even aware of those perks and would follow blindly. That turns into a missed opportunity for them, not Hive. Meanwhile the well dries up fast elsewhere. Put your money where your mouth is here, as a group; you actually have a future.
But only when the potential is fully realized and the concepts understood. And that can't happen without some asshole like me coming along to be like this in a comment section lol.
You talk about bringing people in. That's something I'd like to see as well. If I support this, that's equal to 900 people with 100 HP each. I push a button so they can sit on their hands, enjoy a game, get paid, until this half million runs out. 900 then expect another bail out. And it just goes on like that.
Communities have strength in numbers. So I insist they get out there and flex.
I don't disagree with some of the things you said, that's also why I would've wanted more players to be active on chain so they can diversify or at least earn more HP and broaden their horizons with the activity that's possible here. It'd be a bit much to expect them to vote the proposal into funding, though.
I don't disagree with what you said either. Didn't touch on it simply because I've said things similar over the years.
So, Hive would be the planet; the ground everyone walks on. On Hive, much like the Earth, we have several communities. Splinterlands being one of them.
We're missing the roads, in a sense. Splinterlands isn't the only community that makes it difficult for people to travel and enjoy the sights and sounds of the other cities. Often the communities aren't tied together, acting more like distant islands with very little trade.
That can change of course, but I've noticed the problem for several years now, pointed it out several times, got nowhere, and only saw the problem get worse.
I don't think it's a bit much for them to be able to support themselves. Had years to prepare. And I'd rather see thousands of people stepping up to the plate and taking action rather than just a handful of large stakeholders. All that does is create the illusion the project is popular and on its way to bigger and better things. If the community itself can't put their money where their mouth is and back this on their own, they've nothing to lose and will just carry on with the same habits that placed them in this position now. If it's such a big success and valuable, why the easy out? Doesn't make sense to me. We're all part of a community here somehow. Splinterlands is my neighbor. Why are they asking me to gas up my mower and mow their lawn in order to protect their property value? Mow your own damn grass. And don't tell me with all those people living over there you can't afford gas and don't have enough able bodies to get the job done lol.
These communities have strength in numbers and can do so much more for themselves but won't if they're bailed out so easily every time. I'd like to see the projects succeed combined with communities being the reason they're so successful.
My message to this Splinterlands community is this: If this is something you want, get in here and participate no matter how much HP you have. Nobody exists here to hold your hand. Your hands exist so you can use them.
Just revisiting this post, checking up on the progress and whatnot.
Perhaps I misspoke. To clarify, this is what I said.
I'm not saying it's their sole responsibility. What I'm saying is it'll be interesting to see how far they can push it up, alone. I was under the impression they had a lot. Interested in seeing what they're capable of, as a community.
And I'm still thinking there's a lot more out there somewhere but we're not seeing it due to lack of interest in participating. Some are unaware. Some are inactive. Many contributing factors which I am aware of, of course.
My position wasn't and isn't something like, "F you. Do it yourself."
I see that support trickling in though. I see a good range of HP levels. I think there's more to come yet, from the Splinterlands community.
And I'll support this once I feel confident they did their best. Got a trick up my sleeve as well. Can double my voting power since I vote for the return as well. 180k sitting on the table for them. But only if they go first.
Does that make me less of a prick? lol
I'd love to see these systems running at their full potential.
I wasn't being defensive. I think its fine for you and everyone to vote how they want too, so no worry there either.
I certainly don't think it is Hive's fault if this didn't pass, nor do I think it would be Splinterland's fault if it didn't pass. Sometimes there is simply no fault, and things happen how they should happen.
My point is that if every project that asks for funding must have their users own half the total token, then there will only be ONE project that could ever get funded. You might not see a problem with that, and maybe that's how you think every funding should go so you vote no to everything... and that's cool if so! Cheers
I say similar things to content creators who feel they deserve more support. They're free to encourage outside money to enter this ecosystem and support their work with votes. It's a great deal to the consumer. They actually earn to be supportive. Same goes for the Splinterlands community. They could support this with their own HP, and earn on top of that, plus see their project get funding.
And if I see thousands of people step up to the plate to support this but you need 90k HP to get pushed over the 29 million HP required to pass this, I might change my mind and support it because then I can actually see the value.
That's a fair way to look at it. Cheers and thanks for the dialogue on this!
All good Dave. I didn't write that expecting the response to go smoothly lol.
Good luck here. And for the record, I do have a lot of respect for this project and the community behind it.
Back at you noname and lol on the smooth convo :)
I do appreciate you taking the time to engage, and I'm also glad to see that you have respect for the project even if you vote against the proposal itself. That's nice to hear and best wishes to you going forward!!!
To get a proposal funded you need way less than 50%. Not even 10%.
Thank you for explaining this, my premise was definitely flawed from the beginning on this!
No, They would just need enough to get over the return value.
Thanks for pointing that out by the way. I saw the error but felt I didn't have the time to take the conversation in that direction so let it slide.
Yeah, it is a side case. However it is also good to remember that considering the length of Splinterlands on Hive, some could have transferred earnings into Hive also, not just the other way.
Splinterlands community had several years to prepare for a day like this and could easily (EASILY) rise to the occasion. If this is what they want, the power is in their hands. Half million dollars sounds like a lot but to each one of these individuals, there is no cost in supporting it. No money? BS. Those cards are not worthless. Find some buyers, transfer some funds, support project, guarantee its future to the ones buying those assets by supporting this proposal. Much easier than trying to convince me a trend reversal isn't necessary and it's somehow my responsibility as Hive stakeholder to support this so they can continue.
Can't build a house without a foundation.
"Not allowed." I spoke to you under that post of yours. Here's another example where in society, like I said there, it's the regular folk who will refuse to take action. The power is their hands but it's easier to point at someone else and expect results from them. If this doesn't go through, "It's Hive's fault!"
No. It isn't. And I don't see this project moving elsewhere as a threat even though the wording here in the post could come across sounding like one.
I'll just view it as yet another group of humans completely oblivious to their full potential.
thanks for the clarification @tarazkp!
Probably, you don't know, these proposals accepted by approx. 20% of total active HP.
So, since SPL played a big role in the up stick and after the down one, as well, I just suppose, they should have 20% of total active HP.
In reality, I know, they don't have, as they don't really know Hive economy part, never was intention of SPL people to 'educate' them.
I also think, the DHF proposals should have at least 40% total active HP approval rate (more likely 50%+), but Hive in this point of view, simply not decentralized at all.
In that case, people could block the nonsense money flows, like financing racing car, croatian holiday, never seen, hidden Hive movie etc.
Since DHF Hive, money created out of thin air, and put huge sell pressure, it all should go back for ads, marketing, community building, spread word in web2 through influencers, streamers etc.
Whoever get this money, they don't even bother to make a real financial report (look what valueplan, and leofinance is doing), even if they promise. They max make an amatur post without real numbers, details, and they call it professional project management...😂
Lots of people should be SACKED OUT asap from the project management, near to DHF money, even just for having the smallest chance for Hive.
But it's just a buddy circle, (how politicians, big corps, oligarch circles) not a coincidence this Matt guy finish his proposal with the Croatian holiday... i mean wtf real business that have with proposal? nothing.😉
so how things go, just take it, it's a one way street, and who are onboard, in the circle, care about the small amount today in their pocket, not actually use DHF money for the right purpose, and take the big money tomorrow.
Less than 10% of all existing Hive+HP combined vote for the return proposal.
Problem is not a lack of decentralization. Problem is that not enough people care.
Yes I didn't know that only 20% was required to pass the prop. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
follow dalz, he makes good stats, he is one of the witnesses. rarely he makes stats about SPL, too. so good to read his posts. (if you are an spl user, good to share it amongst them, so they will get a bit more info, how Hive works, currently stands)
about the active HP (and need 28-30M for proposal accepting):
https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@dalz/what-is-the-share-of-the-hive-power-that-is-actively-votingcurating-or-june-2024
excellent info, thanks Pokermaria!
What are you on about dude? Freechain was seen at a festival and at last Hivefest. It was picked up last month by one of the former Golden Globes judges to push to international markets.
Because it has wider appeal its not put up on youtube or elsewhere.
Yes, I know, that means 99%+ of active Hive users haven't seen it yet. (anyway, that part is not important.)
I read your last post about it. And no offence, but from average user point of view, it looks like this. The kinda top secret cia movie about area-51.
Atm, it's just another project, what about nobody made financial report, but definitely cost a lot, and have just future promise. And correct me if I am wrong, it's ready since a year. After given time, people go with stereotypes, especially, if that's pretty much a safe bet.
Since there is no 'Hive welcome page' with all-in-one info about how it works, front-ends, dapps, dao, everything, video tutorials about basics, especially about sign-up + regularly updated, I see very small chance it will change things.
AND: it will cost again lots of money. probably that's part of the reason why valueplan raised the quarterly amount to 300k. So I can imagine how much it cost.
Yes, I 100% stand for that Hive need a serious project manager with relevant successful background in web2 marketing with active business network, next to knowing web3.
In the end, atm ii's the same, very few people decide what for the money goes, and I am also 100% sure, they got paid (not coincidence even valuplan last post call them P.M.). They failed to do (at least successfully) their job.
Obviously, for web3, especially for soc media, all marketing, ads must happen online. Very basic, cost effective, and effective. (I don't say ask a relevant person, because I exactly know, that you know, rally car won't bring users, even expensive google ads are much more effective.)
I don't question your intention, but the money what just get wasted, could be used much better. The DAU numbers proving, it's not used effectively atm at all. (Hard to use in any worse way.)
For example, just paying couple of grand for a streamer with 0.5-1M+ active followers for 10-15 hours and sit down, stream live with a whale, regular Hive user, walk through registration, basics + make him/her a community, delegate big amount of HP for a month would bring a lot more users than all the valueplan, leofinance stuff did in the last 1+ year...
Anyway, I don't care much, sold my few k Hive when I've got the full picture, now just should get out with min. loss from the lovely games here... :)
However, honestly, GL, and all the best! Time will tell, I am the totally wrong, or others!
Thats what you called out, thats what I answered. the point of the film wasnt to make a film for Hivers. That was made clear many times. That would be a waste. The point was to have the film picked up by someone in the industry that will push it towards the international market. That has happened.
This not coinciding with whatever timeline you set for the film is not something I can do anything about.
im listed up there. I havent been paid a dime. Not for the car or for Vibes. You can track all payments yourself.
Youtubers, with 1 mil followers charge 20-30k USD for a 15 second promotion. For crypto youtubers double that. I dont know about streamers but I assume its in that ballpark.
How do I know that? Because I talked to these people.
Youre the type of guy that will spread negativity, falsely, on one chain and then move to another so happy you left, until you realize things elsewhere are a 100 times worse. ofc, cognitive dissonance will kick in at that point.
There is nothing better than Hive. Hive is whatever the community make it into.. You wont get that freedom anywhere else. NOT EVEN CLOSE.
But then again... most people are followers, peasants in need of an overlord to do good by them. someone for them to cheer. a benevolent dictator. A daddy. Someone to baby them.
I think its sad that for all the promise crypto is making no one wants the freedom decentralization gives and do something with it. theyre rather complain and do nothing.
I think you misunderstand the situation.
Yes, Splinterlands runs on Hive but most Splinterlanders are completely unaware of and indifferent to the engineering, cos we are playing a game.
I doubt there are many splinterlanders that own any Hive at all.
And now the Splinterlands community can see several damn good reasons to not be like that anymore.
I'm aware many are somewhat disconnected. That can easily change. Becomes a beneficial change for all involved.
If the very people who love the game don't want to support it or contribute to its success, why should I?
You have dipshits fostering a negative attitude towards Hive and not many pushing back. Its a problem. Thats why theres a disconnect.
Its like having an enemy in your bed.
A group of people that are a part of the community actively working against it.
Oh shit. It's the deep state.
You know deep state is so deep that no one can ever know who they are. They might be mole people. Or Pegasuses with thick mustaches made of bronze and sprinkles.
haha. No.
Its a few guys I could name you right now. Just had run in with one of the aholes on twitter today. Theyre about as deep as a drunk Kardashian.
I look forward to the day I too get to use this line.
I have played Splinterlands every single day without fail since discovering it in early 2021. As such, I have apparently been using the Hive blockchain every single day.
As those actions are not published as posts, I get no HP from that activity, despite using hive more than most of you actual Hivers.
To a gamer, Hive is just the engineering it runs on, so not at all interesting per se.
Of course, Hive is much more than that, and its potential is enormous, but the Hive culture is sort of horrible,
You downvote each other in mean and spiteful ways all the time and actually look down on Splinterlanders. I have spent the last year reaching out to Hivers and they almost all just ignore you! One even told me he did not want to listen to me, even though I am trying to grow Hive!
Hive needs to become more open and welcoming, because right now it is realising its potential.
You guys should totally reach out to and support splinterlands!
You have 70 HP. You came to me with some promises of a grand idea that will bring investors and that you will make a game 100 times bigger than Splinterlands. Not even an idea. a PROMISE OF AN IDEA.
I responded very nicely to your grandiose claims that sound pretty nuts if im being honest.
Now ive seen you 5-6 times already talking nonsense that Hivers arent open or welcoming.
What youre doing is sort of horrible.
There's this weird wave of people with no skin in the game or history who approach one and demand support because they'll be the gem who will bring in thousands. They gotta realize they're not the only one and that senior members of this community have heard that line over and over again with most of the time just being a ditch effort for some post rewards before they disappear.
Firstly, I am a splinterlands player and not particularly paying attention to HP.
I came to you and asked you if I could explain my plan and ideas to you and you declined.
I made no promises at all, I just told you what I was going for and you did not want to hear me out.
Similarly, I made no grandiose claims at all.
I have reached out to many hivers over the last year. To give you some credit, you did respond to my request to talk, albeit if only to say no, without having anything like enough info to make any kind of assessment.
The vast majority of you hivers have simply ignored my polite requests to talk, so my experience is that Hivers are not at all welcoming or open.
If that is "sort of horrible", I can only apologise, but I have been truthful and respectful at all times, which you and your fellow Hivers, with one or two notable exceptions, largely have not.
Sorry if that is disturbing, but it is at least true and accurate in terms of what my experiece has been....
Your idea with questions like:
All grand claims. I explained to you that you need to build reputation on Hive that you need to prove to you can actually do any of this stuff.
From the point of view of anyone reasonable talking to someone with 70HP claiming this stuff without even building any kind of reputation onchain is a waste of time.
I explained to you what you need to do and that you dont build a consensus by DMing a random hiver.
You do it by proving that you can deliver even the smallest thing to Hive and building a reputation for yourself.
You saw that as you did and were extremely happy to paint Hive in a bad light because of it in the discord and now here.
I did not say no. I told you what you need to do. Even if I did say no, which i did not, that has no bearing on your idea working or not. An idea thats not even an idea. Just big claims of stuff you can do without previously proving you can do any of it.
Do you go through your DMs on Twitter and give the time of day to random people you dont know in your spam inbox? Im sure you dont. What about those telling you: "I can bring millions of dollars of investment to your project."
I took the time to help you out to the best of my ability and gave you a course of action. You responded with... Hivers arent welcoming and open.
What you are is disingenuous which is clearly why people shouldnt take claims like you made seriously or respond to them. It was my fault giving you the time of day. Now we just have another FUDer to add to idiots like Bulldog to this conversation.
Have you voted for this proposal?
Hive is just a blockchain. That's like asking a tree to hug you back. All over the internet you'll run into shitty people. They should be the least of your worries.
I'd rather see the Splinterlands community contributing to its own success rather than making excuses and passing the buck. No matter how much people want to pressure me or attempt to guilt trip me into it, I won't budge on that position.
Hive is way more than just a blockchain....
I don't understand the first sentence of your second paragraph, and as far as I know we were chatting, with no thought to pressure you or guilt you into anything, so please chill dude! 😀
I'm chill. It's all good.