So @ned just announced that he has had to end the employment of 70% the Steemit inc. staff! That's seems a pretty extreme action, but I don't have all the figures in front of me to comment accurately. I do know this though - there has never been a more opportune time to get involved in the running and improving of Steem! Suggestions are covered in this video that might solve many of the challenges Steem has had all along.
▶️ DTube
▶️ IPFS
I 100% agree with you on this, and it is exactly the sort of response we needed from a Witness. The Steem blockchain has 150 active witnesses supporting it, there are a number of independent Nodes being run - and I am quite sure throughout the existing community if needed any lost nodes would be replaced - certainly running a node myself is on a list of my own future commitments to the blockchain.
I'm not concerned about this update from Steemit Inc because I believe the blockchain has more then enough people outside of it to keep everything running - it's unfortunate that the current cryptocurrency price crash (thanks to Bitcoin Cash predominately) has brought this situation to a head - but I am also sure that any of the laid off work force that truly believe in the Steem Blockchain will continue to support it one way or another.
@ura-soul you have always impressed me as Witness for being technically prolific, extremely thorough and putting in a large amount of work to promote the Steem Blockchain and onboard users. I hope anyone that does not already support your Witness considers doing it now.
#thealliance #witness
I agree @ura-soul his role as a Witness really seriously and delivers great content as well. I really appreciated it, good job!
Thanks for your kind words and support! We really need to see the figures involved regarding traffic and load hitting the Steemit inc. nodes - I don't personally have that data but it is claimed to be high enough to warrant pretty high annual costs. I can tell you that my site steemocean.com is logging around 60,000 active voters on the blockchain and also that blocktivity.info lists steem as only using a tiny percentage of it's capacity (though this is not accurate enough to base serious calculations on). We really need more real data to go on to attempt to solve this in the community, but generally this type of data is not released by Steemit inc... so.. they don't do themselves many favours in that regard.
I still think that the crypto prices are going to recover before the end of the year - at least to a point where this crisis might be less of a concern. We shall see! In the meantime I'm polishing my harmonica to get back to my day job of busking on roundabouts :)
Strength in numbers, let's start ramping activity and productivity up again on STEEM. peace
What a great video my friend! Couldn't put it better myself...
Specially the part of rewarding contributions/top witnesses, which probably would mean that Steem could be surviving on it's own...
Looking forward to know if there is any way I can help as a C/C++ developer, as I already offered back in time and got completely ignored by the dev team... My offer still stands guys! :)
Also we were talking about the Steem Foundation with @arcange in SteemFest, so possibly this is one of the ways to achieve the goal of getting more decentralized... Let's get this discussion going as well fellow Steem witnesses!
As you said, now is the time...
Thanks! Since the Telegram group 'Steem Foundation' was renamed to be more dApp specific, maybe a new one or a discord can be created specifically for this topic?
If you are talking about community coding, check out https://github.com/SteemCommunity :)
Thanks - yes, though on top of the actual technicalities of code management, we need some kind of organisation of work and task management that involves the Steem core development team - otherwise we are headless chickens!
That was the goal of the organization. Be an organization that does all task management etc
I see, ok, is there a project management app part of the community too? The most I have seen is the issues list in github, which currently has two in it only. What I am envisioning is more of a community hub where brainstorming occurs, roadmap design, scheduling and so forth. I suggested using a testing specific tool for this in steem.chat after HF20 and only a couple of coder witnesses paid attention. It's just not possible to efficiently manage a software team without something like this.
The problem is like always participation. Github issues can be very versatile if you use them right. And I can set up tools that people can use, just getting them to actually use it is the hard part.
If you find people brainstorming and planning, I'll set up all software for it in a breeze
i think this is 'chicken or egg' in that people won't be seen to be brainstorming or planning unless there is a place for them to be seen doing it. i chatted with many people at steemfest who would participate in this, including @arcange and @prc - if you built it, they will come! (cookies are also a potential)
Good stuff. Thanks for linking to this video in your comment on my post. If we have tools for governance (something @eosdac is working to build), we might be able to turn into a truly decentralized, community-run blockchain. I hope that's our future.
Thanks - you are welcome. Absolutely, yes - I will definitely put some time into keeping up with your work there. :)
I am not a computer person, but from a business standpoint it’s surprising a downturn in crypto was not taken into account. In general crypto prices are always driven down around this time of year as folks take profits before the end of the year. It’s just crazy plans weren’t made when the price was high to cash out some and save it for the downturn.
I like the idea of decentralization, there should not be a “choke point” where everything is dependent on the company remaining viable by the sale of Steem supporting the payroll and infrastructure.
I am optimistic that having a large body of witnesses to aid in supporting the platform will help. I just hope the whole thing doesn’t collapse after everyone has put the time and effort in these past few years.
I agree 100% - it's so obvious that it is not surprising that people are skeptical about the situation!
You got a 25.38% upvote from @redlambo courtesy of @lucky-elephant! Make sure to use tag #redlambo to be considered for the curation post!
Listened through and we're on the same page on many levels. Well spoken and words carefully chosen.
We share many similar questions since we're not yes-men.
There are generally too many eye-raising things for me to feel as confident as I did before. I think funds have been sorely mismanaged, and that's not a surprise when a few people have access to such large amounts of their own crypto, the ability to pump, and the keys to the castle.
While Ned always stresses the community, it hasn't felt that way with the information we're given, and the challenges we haven't had much opportunity/intel to be able to formally do much with as a result... until potentially the start of it today. It's time for the company to lift up the hood and let people help. It might not be pretty, but it'll get done the right way over time this way.
Something was very off about his SteemFest visit, so I feel that is par for the course for someone who didn't find enough value to stay for a couple of days to meet and speak with hundreds of people who love his project.
My challenge is in not having tech skills to help in the development regard. If Steemit could propose the type of help they could use from us (tech and non-tech), besides saying the well is dry, that'd be a big help.
Thanks! I agree completely - sadly, though, I won't hold my breath on that kind of communication - I sense a big ego gap has to be breached first!
An Excellent video, thank you.
I suggest we can make this a focal point of those that wish to discuss both decentralized development and decentralized marketing moving forward.
Meanwhile many separate front-end projects appear to be competing against each other, on many levels. Yes?
Most of this has to do with mimicing existing products in the social space, so be it. But I am thinking, one app that does it all, wins. Hee Hee
mobile
Thanks! Absolutely, yes, there is a lot of competition and really therefore, a lot of wasted energy and loss of opportunity.. It is understandable though since those involved want to be masters of their own destiny and not worry about the mistakes of others. IMO the solution to this lies in open sourcing as much modular code as possible so that everyone can share while still going off in their own directions.
It's very tempting for projects to try to compete on all fronts at once, but in truth it is important for them to excel at one thing first and then expand.
It would actually be more of an issue than just no code upgrades of Steemit Inc. stopped functioning and running its full nodes. Not to repeat Gillian's post here I'll just share it. Bottom line it would be a big issue.
To me a movement toward paying even more people with steem would be even worse. With such an early stage project (in such an early stage market) I don't actually want to see anyone getting paid with the tokens unless they are still in a lock period. All this coin selling at such low prices by people who need the income to live on is a big part of the problem. I knew that was happening with some witnesses, but hand't realized the entire company's operating expenses were being covered that way. Terrible business model!
I come from a business not tech background, but my experience tells me that the best course is to sell some company equity and use the cash to pay people with cash. Give them steem too, sure, but require vesting for at least another year, until after SMTs are stable. Just my 2 cents.
Yes, I am aware that the issue extends to running nodes, however, the current situation has been presented as that the nodes have paid support for the meantime. There is currently 55 million steem held in the @steem and @steemit accounts combined. I know that these accounts perform functions intrinsic to the operation of the blockchain, but if the choice was to sell some of those tokens or lose the blockchain, it makes no sense not to sell some. That level of funding can easily pay for what is needed for a significant time period.
I think the value of steem is extremely likely to increase, regardless of what happens on the blockchain, which can be seen literally every time there is a problem with Steem - instead of the price dropping, it just follows the moves of Bitcoin and may even go up at times that Steem is really facing a major challenge (rather than down as we may expect).
For these and other reasons, it makes perfect sense to offer Steem to the community in exchange for coding - it should have been done from the beginning. The 'problem' of coin selling by people who need them to live is really only a problem to investors looking for short term gains. Those who see the value of the project long term will probably think differently.
As far as company equity goes - I know nothing about that and have never even heard it mentioned in public by anyone who might know.. I presume Ned owns most or all of it - but they do have an 'angel' investor too.
I've commented on this elsewhere. Instead of dumping the tokens on the market and putting selling pressure on Steem, this should be done off market, with strategic investors or partners and after careful negotiations, in which not the price or the stake sold should be the main concern, but what is obtained during the negotiations. The new stake owner, terms and price should then be announced publicly. That of course would have been better to do when the situation wasn't as it is now.
Otherwise I completely agree with Indigo, we need more fiat into Steem, to grow its market cap, and not just play around with the little we have, because that only feeds the downward spiral.
I don't compare the situation to just what's happening in crypto, but what happens at most tech companies. As I'm sure you know having worked in tech startups yourself, payments that comes as stock in the company require vesting. The idea is to get the company to a stable position before there is downward pressure on the stock by employees selling large stake they are given. I think there is a wisdom to that that made it the industry norm.
Now granted, they only had the option of offering stock, not coins, so it is a little different. I don't think it's different enough though for that time tested experience to be ignored. And in fact, many crypto projects do duplicate that. The question is also for how long, which it can be argued that at roughly 3 years, all initial vesting would be done already anyway. But some vesting schedule are tiered over more like 10 years, and often 5.
I don't think it is the short-term investing view that sees the problem in these token dynamics. Quite the contrary. It is the long-term that brings the problems. In the short term investors are powered up. But there doesn't wind up being a long-term at all if everything is paid for by selling coins and the way it's being done leads to the coin price continuing to fall until it can no longer support essential expenses.
I don't know what effect more rapidly distributing that 55 million STEEM would have, but I can't image it would be good given that the current rate is already problematic. You mention the price going up even with the blockchain is having problems, but what I've noticed is the price going down faster than other coins. What I've noticed is the rank slipping and slipping and in danger of falling out of the top 50. All those other coins have also faced the same bear market, but we are losing relative position to them. I believe it is because there is an extra downward pressure on the price that is completely linked to such large amounts being distributed without any vesting schedule.
Now of course, there is a need for more community involvement, particularly by coders, to take over some of the responsibilities staff were fulfilling. But apart from their payment, I wonder how that would work given what you've already said about their communication, code commenting, and responsiveness. If they were like that with more staff, how will they be with staff stretched even thinner?
I am certainly hoping for the best here, but I can't say I'm feeling all that optimistic at this junction. I'm not seeing a clear path forward, other than whoever owns equity in the company being wiling to sell some to use THAT to cover operating expenses instead of selling STEEM to. And maybe then, with staff completely paid with fiat, it wouldn't be a problem to use STEEM payments for all the community programmers who volunteer to help. I just don't see increasing the rate of STEEM being paid out as being the answer when the low price of STEEM is what he said has precipitated the problem.
I'm not sure of the details of the equity, but Steemit inc. doesn't really turn a trading profit outside of the Steem tokens as far as I am aware - so in a sense I imagine the price of any stock in steemit inc. is effectively relatively moot in comparison to Steem tokens, which actually have value. That could well be why I never usually hear anyone even mentioning the subject. It would be interesting to see accounting for Steemit inc. - I just did some searches but couldn't locate them in D&B. If all of Steemit inc's work goes towards raising the price of Steem, but Steem isn't actually owned by Steemit inc. then the value of Steemit inc's work is to be measured in Steem and not shares. At least that's my current logic - it could change depending on the long term capacity of Steemit inc. beyond Steem.
I actually went to Steemit.com and Steem.com looking for a company address, but didn't find one. When I clicked on 'contact' on steem.com I went to an xml file instead of a page.. lol
Great video! I like the idea of taking this opportunity to become more decentralised.
The path to success always involves turning problems into opportunities. :)
Yes, I have been suggesting this approach since @ned's video dropped. Glad to see people with more knowledge and standing in the community than I thinking along the same lines.
I think SMTs are the most important development now needed for growth and to improve STEEM's position. My 2c is that Steemit inc should take on the role of project manager and outsource most of the work.
I really like the idea of redirecting some of the reward pool to pay developers to work on the chain. (I also think a small portion should be redirected into a marketing fund but that's a different issue).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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Could. Not. Agree. More.
I'm one of the non- technical Steemians but I'd welcome more decentralisation and I think paying a dev team a percentage of the rewards pool is a fantastic idea. I agree that despite its brilliance, Steemit's development is incredibly slow: the interface, new accounts, Steem Chat... Where do you even start? Compare that to the development that takes place on the platform, in dapps etc. There is such astonishing talent and enthusiasm here. It needs to be a self-sustaining system.
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I see many devs willing to help, me too. It wouldn't take too long to get a grip on the code but i don't e.g. have a f clue how to test and run my work, setting up that kind of environment is where the speciality resides, we need a Steem Dev Setup 101 Course
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Ahoy! That's good to know, for sure. The main issue I have when I look through the code is that it isn't commented and I have zero design docs. I am just used to thinking from the top-down direction, so I am really slowed down by not having these.
The closest I can find right now would be the group of community devs and witnesses who run a group on Github for testing: https://github.com/orgs/SteemCommunity/teams/blockchain-developers
Ideally, the future of this blockchain lies in our collective agreement and efforts to make things more decentralized. It is really sad to hear such ratio being laid off, my hearty wishes to them during this crypto frustrated market.
Yes! I am totally behind this!
I agree pretty much across the board.
My take on Ned is that, unfortunately, he usually comes across more like a teenager who has been ill-advisedly given the keys to his dad's Lamborghini, than anything approaching an astute and competent businessman.
I worked with a lot of Neds when I was a stockbroker in the 80s. Most of them were way more into getting their yellow Donzis and Cigarette boats than they were about actually doing a good job for their clients, or even their companies.
I am not surprised in the least that he's driven Steemit Inc. financially into the ground, as the signs have been there from the start. He's like the surprised lottery winner, who blows through it all in record time, rather than "bothering himself" to invest for the future.
His focus seems to be far less on the business than it is on himself, and anything approaching a solid work ethic, much less intelligent planning in case of downturns, seems to be beyond his ken, If not beneath his notice.
He also rarely does what he says he will, with his promises for greater transparency being only the tip of that iceberg.
Frankly, I hope I'm wrong about all this, but this is what I'm seeing, and from my perspective, is the vibe he gives off.
Steemit will survive in spite of Steemit Inc., not because of it, which has already been the case for at least the past year that I've been involved.
We are still going strong, despite the downturn in crypto, because of our Witnesses and our communities, and continue gaining strength because of our developers.
I remain bullish on Steem - and Steemit - because of Steemians, who include some of the most diverse and awesome people it has been my pleasure to get to know, yourself included.
I am still investing in Steem.
Thanks for all you do, @ura-soul. We appreciate you more than you know.
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Thankyou for your appreciation! :)
I have never met Ned beyond standing next to him for 2 minutes at Steemfest before he disappeared. I can see why you would think as you do here. I do give him a bit more credit than you are here and he often surprises me with the focus he does have into Steem mentally - only because the actions in general tend to suggest he has little or none! It may be that there are other forces involved that we are unaware of, such as investor pressure or other things. I certainly can't think of any justification for the financial situation though, other than an ideological intention to stay 'pure crypto' and not get involved in fiat - but that is absolutely not good business sense.
If you are right, then it is guaranteed that the 'market forces' will force out Steemit inc.
We shall see. I wish them well and hope that they realign to be optimised and effective at their stated objectives!
I do as well.
As I said, I do hope I'm wrong about the guy, but the videos I've watched that he's created haven't seemed to have much real substance thus far.
In any case, Steemit, and its' growing number of dapps, will continue on. Of this I have little doubt. ;-)
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Nice discussion, @ura-soul I share your enthusiasm and hope.
@penderis you might find this discussion interesting.
He didn't fire them, he laid them off. It's a huge difference. It makes sense and hopefully it will come around here again.
Yes, there is a difference, but not such a huge one - the outcome remains quite similar in terms of who is working on the project.
You're right about the immediate impact. A layoff implies structural difficulties or cyclical, such is the case as the crypto market cap is low but Steemit still has cash in the bank. Firing implies a scandal or poor performance which isn't the case. I just don't want anyone to be confused. Steem is a solid blockchain, the price is down but there are no scandals. Wording is very important, I feel sorry for people who are laid off, I don't have sympathy for those who are fired. Will continue to invest time, effort and money here as laying off staff is fiscally prudent and improves the chances of long-term success
I understand, I will only add that being fired does not imply any wrongdoing - those doing the firing can just as likely be at fault.
I think you make some excellent points viz decentralising the coding moving forwards.
What you say about progress being slow is also interesting....
I wonder how much money steeminc has extracted over the last years?
Possibly $100s of millions.
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I have no answer to that - it should be possible to track to some extent via token transfers and sales. For some reason I have never seen anyone attempt to calculate it from the blockchain.
I guess it would be a relatively easy data mining excercise.
Problem is the data black hole off chain!
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We don't understand why people use traditional organisations (companies) to create and operate decentralized services. In doing that they end up facing many contradictions, some of which this guy is addressing. We are working on decentralized organisational models that can take on development / innovation in a sustainable way. Perhaps the guy in this video is looking for such models. See more about open value networks http://valuenetwork.referata.com/wiki/Main_Page
We've been planning to make some videos here on DTube to inform this community about our 8 years of experience with these decentralized models of innovation and production. If someone is interested, please suggest a video topic.
Aloha! Thanks for the link. I am aware that there have been various attempts to providing models for solving this kind of issue over the years. I will read through the linked site when I have more time. Steem was originally conceived against an ideological backdrop of anarcho-capitalism, which I personally think is an oxymoron. If you produced a video demonstrating the similarities and differences of your approach to the various common forms of anarcho-x/y/z then it would definitely help to clarify quickly where you are coming from. Thanks.
I'm not technical, nor am I an investor (well, I do hold Steem and have a stake, so I guess I am), I love the community and the platform to share and create ideas.
Your suggestions seem sound... Makes a lot of sense to draw on the talent that are already here, passionate, and staked in.
Thanks, yes! To be clear - in the video, where I said that I think that sometimes investors are listened to too much, what I meant is that people want upvotes and so they tend to pay more attention to people with larger amounts of Steem Power - regardless of whether those people have experience or understanding enough to produce good ideas. At the same time, there are those who don't have as much Steem Power but do have good ideas - who tend to get ignored. Really this is another example of 'proof of wallet' overcoming 'proof of brain'. 'Proof of stake' does relate to money, but it also relates to time - since someone could stake a lot of their time and not get rewarded much, not because they have no brain but because those with Steem Power don't notice them.
Thanks that's a good vid! I though utopia.io was already a place to find coders?
I like your idea, @indigoocean in the comments was mentioning that you need to inject fiat to pay the devs, it all depends if we need new blood or working with those already in within the steem ecosystem and that are ok with the market fluctuation.
It makes me wanna puke a bit when I see @Steemit and @Steem account holding so much SP and cash, that could be used to make the devs,content creators and curators survive, I don't get it, it doesn't make sense to me, if someone can explain why this SP is not used daily?
Utopian rewards people for performing coding tasks on whitelisted open source projects. However, if the operator of the project doesn't run the tasks fully via github, then not much can be achieved through it.
Those Steemit and steem accounts do perform a direct function in the steem world, but I'm not able to comment on the full details.
OH I see!
Well there's something to about it ! I have some ideas but I won't share it here :)
I offer my services as a developer. I would commit at least 8 hours per week. If anything like community development is going to be organized it should be visible as much as it can be. So anybody who is willing to contribute can be informed on time. Also I think it is good idea to organize STEEM blockchain solution for code contribution, something like gitcoin but with STEEM. That would be great incentive for developers.
Actually I just realized that there is project which we could use to support Steem and Steemit development. It's Utopian. https://join.utopian.io/
Yes, I mentioned utopian in the video here - part of the challenge is that Steem development tends to not be fully described on github and utopian uses github for it's functionality.
I understand. There is open source GitLab suite which can be run specially for Steem on a server. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/
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Thanks, ok - is there any benefit to running this software vs. just using github.com and a connected online project management app? I appreciate that some project management apps might charge subscription, but it would also cost money in hardware hosting fees to host gitlab, right?
The benefit would be that we avoid using privately owned SaaS. Community run GitLab or some other community run versioning system + project management software is closer step towards decentralization than using something owned by a privately held company. Look what happened now when Steem Inc is in trouble. And cost of running servers for versioning system and management software are not that high. Lots of providers give free resources for open sources projects. You get that later as a community, when companies see an opportunity in supporting a project, but it's possible. I remember when I worked within Joomla community lots of companies supported the project, they do it even now. Money wasn't an issue there.
IMHO if something is going to be used and developed by community then community should lean on open source tools which are running on community maintained resources.
What can be dangerous for community run projects is that leadership can be infiltrated by "politicians" which doesn't care about project as much as they care about their own personal goals. I saw that in some open source large scale projects. But there are mechanisms which can prevent that type of behavior.
Fair enough, ok. There are counter arguments to that, in that a commercial enterprise running the system has motivators to keep running it that are disconnected from the project - so might be more stable through tough times.. Plus, they won't pull out from the project and refuse to allow others access if they get annoyed with people personally ;)
Ultimately, a community hosted server will tend to be rented from a private company or alternatively will be controlled by members of the community. I guess the only way to improve on this from a decentralised perspective would be to host the project management itself on the blockchain ;)
Actually it would be run on an infrastructure of servers. :)
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Question: If steemit tanks, What happens to our wallet? Isn't steem more than just steemit? Can we download or "save" our wallet so we can cash it in if Steemit shuts down? Just asking.
Steem and Steemit are not the same thing. Steemit inc. and Steemit.com can vanish and Steem the blockchain will continue, at least for a while - until either someone else replaces Steemit inc. or another outcome occurs. You would not automatically lose the content of your wallet if Steemit vanished.
Thanks for the response. I don't have much but I earned it, ya know? Thanks for easing my mind. I know you understand blackchains and all this better than I do. Thanks again!
The problems you bring up are all valid. Many of the solutions you mention would be valid as well except that in my time here generally speaking Steemit Inc does not want the project to be decentralized. Their developers make all the real decisions on what will and will not be allowed into steem. The people who say that the witnesses decide what code to run are living in a fantasy land because to my knowledge the witnesses have never once run code that did not come from steemit and the steemit repo. I think maybe a hard fork away is what is needed to save STEEM. The key is to do it in a way that whales allow it or else it has no hope of happening.
I really enjoyed to see your perspective, maybe is about time to create a Steem independant organization. The aim is to reward and pay in crypto to bring coder and reward novelty ideas.
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Well said. This is a chance to become even more decentralized.
Exactly! Seams to be that we are now centralized around @ned.
Question?
multiple choice style.
Would you think accounts created on steemit within 7 days of dan's account on here 24-03-16 are.
More likely to be steemit devs including friends and family of ned-dan
Highly likely to be the same
Deffinately
could be anyone
The answer intrigues me, I await with baited breath.
I don't think many people had knowledge on how to even access accounts at that point. I had read the white paper but wouldn't have known how to get an account. Most likely they were from those involved in the development and their friends etc. - yes. Also maybe their angel investor.
Then good sir, note freedom and berniesanders plus all the nextgencrpto accounts were created as so, bernie march 26th 16 freedom march 31st 16, I have spent a month linking all ned and dans alt accounts, please view my last post, no upvote required.
yes, I am aware of that - berniesanders has spoken to me about it and claimed that freedom is dan - but he had no evidence to offer.
Well I would think he would know better than almost anyone on here, as he was on here before it even went to the Alpha stage in April 2016 :-) Just saying.
He's also one of the most anti-social people on here - so not necessarily trustworthy!
I agree, though he is obviously well connected with Ned or Dan to have been on here since before anyone else. He was part of the system before even ned's account by at least 5 days. His steemd only goes back to 26th March when he found a POW or whatever it is lol, not his account creation date.
Man, I hope you can out all the deceptions,...
Well it goes like this, any account made before the 1st April is a dev or their friend family, I can name 2 off the top of my head, and incidentaly both are making a killing off bidbot payouts/delegations. freedom and alpha, both accounts created the same day as ned's (31st off March 16. :-)
Told you I had the goodies.
Good going, when do we get to read the report?
Part 1 done this morning, part 2 within the next hour or so bro.
freedom is making a killing off most bidbots
it is well known that freedom delegates to bid bot operators, yes
Proof of wallet,...our illustrious leader's choice in bag holder creating,...
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