I'm not going to get into nfts much here because the market and how crypto work has sure made them have one of the worst reputations ever out there. I'm also not going to talk much about companies behind nfts or tokenization of ingame assets because starting off the wrong way feels like it's going to be difficult to pivot when your main interest are shareholders of the company. I'm also not going to talk about the gaming industry currently where it's all about how to make the most amount of money from their players rather than giving them a product they value and enjoy playing.
I'm also not going to try and convince you that gaming needs to make you money, the way people go about this almost always makes the projects unsustainable and the open markets cause these big swings where for a short while everyone's "thriving" with their greed leading the charge of their gameplay and then there's 5 years of game of thrones winter where most gamers disappear.
I'm just going to name a few examples of where I think in gaming it would've been nice to have something to show for having spent a lot of time there, even if all that time was spent for the fun of it, for the friends you've made, for the trends you've chased, for the accomplishments, achievements, status you may have had, etc.
I've personally played a lot of world of warcraft, on and off as of late but quite on in its golden days. With every new expansion came the big "reset", all the gear you've worked hard to get was now unusable, your effort and acomplishments before the reset vanished. WoW did do "something" to not make it all seem lost, you could still use mounts you've found before and eventually you could use older item sets' looks to make it look like that's what you're wearing even though you really had the newer gear. There was some effort as to not making it all feel like a waste, but it's all still kind of worthless in the end, isn't it?
By worthless I mean valueless, and I understand that many would counter me here saying it's all about the memories, etc, but why does it have to always be all about that? Why do players always have to be the ones who play and pay and get nothing back? Without its players, WoW would've been nothing. They're the ones who carried it forward. Yet when the games shine and are doing well, it's only a few people who become multi-millionaires/billionaires and its shareholders who mainly work as another layer on top of the market capitalization. They're just feeding off of the success of the players and developers + workers.
If you were a player who started playing from its early days, shouldn't you have some value to show for it if you stayed "invested" for so long?
Instead, players are met with strict rules. Don't share your account. Don't sell gold for real money. Don't sell items for real money. You can't trade this item, you can't trade that one. If you want to quit, just quit and desert your account with nothing to salvage for all the hours you've spent.
Why is it so?
Why can't you sell your account to someone who wants to have the items you've amassed over the years if you're moving on. Why create such a "sink" that ultimately takes everything from the players?
This is kind of the question I've been asking for many years now and what I'd like to do different with Holozing.
I understand there's difficulties with certain aspects of this, anti-money laundering, KYC, country-based rules, etc, and while I'm glad these are being worked on to make it easier for blockchain start-ups over time, it's not like it's always up to us creators and developers to be in charge of what's happening in an economy that isn't in our control. Sure we do what we can in terms of not letting underaged kids spend too much money on buying lootboxes, or attempting to make the game a softcore casino for players, but beyond that you can't place absolute limitations on a game economy just because of a few bad actors. They'll be everywhere, as we may have seen in the early days of bitcoin and even here on Hive from time to time.
Restrictions in terms of safety of our users are important, to make sure assets don't get stolen, etc, but that security comes with the underlying blockchain; hive. Your keys, your crypto + assets.
Either way, without going too much off-topic.
I understand that users here on Hive may already be familiar with some of these concepts as many/most of you do earn some crypto for your activity here and I'm sure same goes for your @splinterlands activity for instance. To many outside however, are not aware that these thigns are possible at all and the only way they can profit off of blockchain economies in their minds is to put up money up front to purchase something to then sell it to someone for a higher price.
Naturally that's one part of trading and markets, but I wanna make sure that if the game does well and becomes popular, everyone involved who's helped get it developed in one way or another gets to do well financially to a degree along with it.
Look at Pokemon as an example, it's one of the biggest franchises and outside of being a content creator or a collector, there is close to no value going to the players and fans.
Why not?
Can we change that?
I hope so.
If you've spent a lot of time and effort while having fun in a game and its ecosystem, you should be able to get something back when you decide to retire that game. At the same time, games shouldn't just randomly end and destroy all the perceived value within it (shoud-out to Stop Killing Games), if you instead choose to pass your accounts down a generation. How much that is is of course dependant on a lot of variables but something will always be better than nothing, it should become the norm in this industry in the future.
Without a doubt, everything you mention and the example of WOW is very interesting. Certainly, the players who are the driving force behind these projects end up being censored in a thousand ways, even having their ideas and proposals stolen, which the company then appropriates as so-called intellectual property, when in principle, in most cases, they are ideas created by the community. Not to mention everything that has been achieved over time, which is then thrown down the drain as if it were nothing.
Anyway, I do believe it is possible to make a game with Blockchain elements, NFTs, and also traditional elements. If I may mention an example that comes quite close to this type of model, it is Ravenquest. I tried it for many hours, and although I no longer play it as I did before, I really liked the model they have implemented. I think it is the game that comes closest to what we traditional gamers who are also passionate about Blockchain games or NFTs are looking for.
I hope Holozing has all this and more, and I believe we can make it happen.
Best regards.
What made you quit playing it if I may ask?
Yeah I'm really trying to build holozing where once the game is playable it'll get players to play it without the whole nft/blockchain/crypto earnings in mind, that that is just a nice bonus whether they want it or not.
Well, I was playing other RPGs, and Ravenquest requires time if you want to make a profit, because it rewards active players, and there is a kind of strength that you gain as you do daily missions or some other activity. That is, I think the minimum time to play it daily was two hours when I was playing it (I'm not sure how it is now), but for better results you had to play more hours. In a way, that pressure to play so as not to lose the streak and get some tokens in the weekly airdrop made me see the game as less fun, because I was already playing out of obligation every day, instead of enjoying it at my own pace.
However, no one is forced to play to get the token, meaning I can go at my own pace and enjoy it however I want, but that wasn't the case for me.
Once again, the game system is phenomenally designed, I love it... I think the graphic style didn't help keep me in it either, but aside from that and what I said before, I give the combination of Blockchain and traditional gaming a 10/10.
Huge milestone that Stop Killing Games has reached. when I first make a snap here, it still only has 800k signatures. Hope it will bring some change in the gaming industry.
Yeah, it's crazy to think of what companies wanna get away with. Same goes for nft games to be honest, so many that just shut down and take all that value players and collectors have put into it away making them worthless.
It's quite ironic because the pitch for NFT games before was ownership, but as soon as the games get shot down, they become unusable.
Your post reminds me of Destiny. When Destiny was first released, Bungie had said the gear would carry over to future games and be upgradable. So many of us were grinding raids to get all the best gear so we'd have it for the future too. When Destiny 2 came out (and even before that in the expansions), it was decided that the gear would not carry forward. That was disappointing and I stopped playing not long after that.
Anyway, I hope that can change with Hive and other games that will allow us to have something to show for our gaming over a longer period of time.
Yeah, and I'm not against gear being replaced either if it makes the game better, the thing is that you have nothing to show for your accomplishments other than having that gear somewhere in your bank or showcasing it through transmog in WoW and having an achievement that states you accomplished this and that back then.
I'm saying if you did all that you should also get some value in the form of being able to trade that off for your favorite crypto or trading off the account itself or earning some stake in the project over time, not just letting it die off as just a memory.
Well said, I totally agree with that. It's one of the primary reasons I ended up in Splinterlands and on Hive.
holozing registration referral link in my bio if you're interested in signing up (not much to do yet). It's launched fairly so gotta make the most out of referrals as the founder too :D
Got it, I just logged in using your link.
Appreciate it! Hope to see you play soon!
My wife's cousin made a lot of money off WoW in the early days leveling characters and then selling them off. If you planned ahead it could have been pretty lucrative I guess,but you had to have multiple accounts and then you likely got into a gray area that Blizzard wasn't too happy about. I can understand why people don't like the idea of being able to buy a toon like that, but I think these days everything is a commodity and people would be a bit more open to it besides the hard core OG gamers.
Sure but it's all black market activity since it's not allowed which opens up so many more abuse vectors and scam activity.
Right, I think we have gotten the point where it should be more allowed and embraced. I don't know, I still miss my old orb flinging card game that I had on mobile a long time ago. That was a cool game with some awesome art.
I think traditional gaming is really predatory, but nobody is complaining about it. Instead blockchain games get a really bad reputation from traditional gamers... As soon as they hear that crypto is involved the reaction is that it is not a real game but a scam of some sort. Hopefully this will change in the future.
Heh looks like today a day of WoW mentions)) saying so coz just read post from one of developers in our company how he started to play this game and how he evaluated with it and he even touched DOTA2 theme and booms your post about WoW.
Looks like a noticeable coincidence
Hehe interesting, are they working on something blockchain or just regular game?
Just a regular game. Most of the team don't have experience with blockchain.
Wow 🤩, I totally agree with the view about WoW and the value that just disappears 😅... The concept of Holozing makes me curious, especially if it can really give real appreciation to players who have invested a long time... Hopefully it can be a game that is different from the others! 🎮✨
I really agree with this. Games should reward the time and effort players put in instead of wiping progress or restricting ownership to them Giving real value back would change how we see and invest in gaming forever and I believe Hive can pull it off really well, I hope it does
when can we play holozing
it's time to cook! haha thought u gonna surprise
letting the price of hive cook for a bit first
o.o how much u need hive at
dunno, just higher xD I could DCA into more vials if it goes up 1.5-2x, curation rewards would be worth more, we could maybe hire more people, etc.
woah so you going to take up the vial supply I see. That would be great! hire more people, then can get things done hopefully faster :3
Even if you spend years and years on gaming, you still end up with nothing—your words are absolutely true. Blockchain may be able to change this picture.
This is a very important point. If we consider the amount of time young people and teens spend on games versus the added value, we find that it's time wasted. If value were added, as is the case with blockchain-based games, it would be immensely beneficial to society and investors, and sustainable, as you mentioned in your article.
I am going to add what I've learned from @crownrend, and what I think it should become in its new iteration.
One of the things that must be cut is the PvP at least if it is affecting someone's game balance in anyway. This causes major strife in the player base and rather than creating a fun environment for players, it makes it devolve into toxicity. It could later be introduced in a less toxic way without making players sour on each other.
I now think best way to go is a PvE campaign where user's can trade resources or things among themselves and making it a more cooperative environment and in-game resources should not tie in to the play to earn. Rather a different metric should be used to reward the players. (For new iteration of crownrend that I have in mind this would be Prestige Points. After sometime in your campaign you will prestige lose all your in-game resources but get a prestige point. That prestige point will pay you from a reward pool of all prestige point holders as long as you actively play the game.)
I believe this will create a better more sustainable community around the game. But for this to happen there needs to be a change to the core of the game from the start.
PS: When I say new iteration, I am not saying we are currently working on it. I just want to work on crownrend and do it justice and those thoughts about crownrend just comes to me unbidden.
Good ideas but how will the prestige reward the player? The biggest problem with games is pay to win. So in my opinion, any rewards given should be in some other form. Tokens used to pay for convenience like increasing energy storage or something but no direct power. The tokens can be used to enable trading of things. As a developer I understand that you need to make money and selling NFTs is a way to do that but I would caution against pay to win.
You will receive a prestige point and there would be a reward pool. Reward pool here means rewards outside of the game in form of HBD. The pool will distribute rewards (once a week/once a month) these are ballpark ideas. And you will receive a share from that pool depending on your share of the prestige points and activity status.
Things like you said that increases convenience will partly fund the devs directly and fund the savings pool. (Like let's say we as a game have 300 dollars as a reward pool sitting in HBD savings, we get 15% APR. We can distribute 5% of the APR as rewards, 5% to the devs and 5% to compound the reward pool.)
As the pie grows, it will benefit everyone playing the game. There will be no tokens that will be tradeable. All the Play2Earn stuff will happen with HBD. So people would not overly focus on the token prices or anything.
Game overall will focus more on the cooperation of players, so if someone pays to win in some sense it will not be detrimental to other players.
This is smart gaming. Use the sign up costs and stuff to grow the pool. If it's a Pokémon style game, having the ability to buy extra slots or limited time skins etc. Would boost the rewards. If a game the size of splinterlands did that, the reward pool would be nice and evenly distributed.
i think we are so old to play a game that take so much time, RPG and others, even war craft dota 2, it takes one hour to play one game. i think in this age i prefer to play a game like PUBG , MOBILE LEGEND LOL not take to much time, the golden age of play rpg was done
used to play Guild Wars because it was a one time transaction. You didn't pay per month. Had better PvP than WoW too.
Gamers invest tons of time into their games, just to have their accomplishments reset with every new expansion or update.
I appreciate the vision, and you're absolutely right about the problems with traditional gaming economies. My main concern is whether this can work without turning the game into 'work' - where people optimize for profit rather than fun. Pokemon GO's success came from pure enjoyment, not economic incentives. How do you maintain that magic while adding real economic value?
Greetings @acidyo It's a pleasure to be here in your publication and to say something that I've seen in the last few weeks, even months. You're doing a great job promoting your formidable game Holozin, which I want to start so everyone can enjoy it... There will always be difficulties... A big hug.
Your proposal is interesting. I hope it is applicable and a game can be created that rewards time and dedication and that also has the characteristic of being an exciting and fun game.
Best regards friend, I hope your projects can be fully carried out, I wish you much success in your project and that you have a good team by your side..
That's true, games are not made to give anything back to you, regardless of how much money and time you spent there... I never played wow, or any game like that where you would buy stuff from marketplace or gathered around with effort, i always played one time purchase games, I spent a lot of time on street fighter 4 and rtcw and yea in the end of the day I have nothing now, servers are closed too... The only game that gave me something back is Tiberium Wars,but just because I was a top player there and EA monthly did competitions, I won quite some or at least placed well so I made like 800€ out of it + various gadgets like t-shirts
It's the reality: in the end, games like WOW never have adequate rewards, or in some cases, they do, but they may be very limited. In my case, I've always been a Minecraft Java PvP player and I've been quite obsessed with it, but the truth is that sometimes you'd like to receive rewards or something, and well, sometimes the game becomes tedious.
Anyway, I've seen Holozing a lot and tried it at the time, although I feel like I haven't dedicated enough time to it to see how it goes. But seeing that you say it's a project that seeks to implement rewards and such, I'm going to dedicate myself to investigating the game more and see how it goes. :D
Those people in Minecraft play with aim. XD
I don't know much about games that include rewards with cryptocurrencies, but I would like a model like the one you propose, but in addition to the economic incentive to play, I think the game should entertain and people who seek rewards obtain them with their effort but that there is also the option to play it for fun and of course if rewards are generated better but not only for rewards but for fun or because the game is spectacular and of course the progress that one achieves is one's own and we decide what to do
$WINE