For a long time I've been a proponent of high inflation on the chain and directing a lot of it through post rewards. I think that was a good solution to the ninja Mine and made sense with Steem north of a dollar and a large dev fund sitting under steemit. I think it's a bad plan with Hive at 11 cents.
We essentially have one shot in the next four years of helping Hive turn into something bigger than it is. I think in order to do it we have to drastically reduce the print rate so that HIVE is an attractive place to build a business. It's currently a weak place to build a business because the base currency is dirt cheap and there's not a ton of capital to access here. So, the chain, tech, and community are pretty strong, but the underlying financial structure is shitty.
One of the reasons why HIVE is so cheap is because we keep printing massive amounts of inflation. I think we should drastically reduce inflation. I think we should bring it to 1% per year and hold it there. .33% for witnesses, .33% for DAO, and .33% for post rewards.
This would have the impact of cutting the inflation down to about 1/8th of what it is now. So, folks might ask, "Hey fucktard, you think cutting inflation is gonna help us? You're supposed to be for minnows you turn coat asshole. I'll get so many fewer coins to sell on the market. Go fuck yourself."
And it's precisely the thought that everyone, not just you, will have fewer to sell. Most of the top 20 witnesses sell everything they get, most of the bloggers sell, there's a handful of investors who are trying to accumulate, but most folks seem happy to dump. The sell pressure is unrelenting and a big part of that is because Hive doesn't feel like a great place to invest money or try to store it. It's inflating away and if you're looking for something to hodl you're better off selling for BTC.
I think instead of helping you pile up coins that are losing value, I think we should let people earn a smaller stack of coins that are growing in value. I think it's waaaay more likely the top 20 witnesses hold onto their stake, bloggers fights for larger influence, and the DAO gets pickier with their funding under these circumstances.
I would rather we all have fewer tokens of something going up, than more tokens of something going down.
A big point I have cared about for years is distribution. Well, we've actually distributed deeper down at the lows than we have at the highs, and with Hive at 11 cents I really feel like minnow status, 5k HIVE, is reachable for many.
Lastly, my experience with tribes has shown me that high percentage distribution through a tribe is bad, but having just enough to give people a taste is great. I disagree that we should cut hive inflation and post rewards to zero. I just think we need to cut the whole thing drastically. If you thought the halving is good for business just wait and see what the eigthening can do for you.
Anyway, I'm out of consensus these days... so not sure anyone cares what I think, that said I do manage a couple influential projects on the chain: splinterlands, hive-engine, palnet, and run a few nodes for the infrastructure. I think we need to do this, and we need to do it quickly before the bull is let out of the cage and we're left behind.
TL;DR Next HF plan
ASAP: delegation pools, inflation down to 1% annually, and otherwise keep it clean.
But wait.
I though the last time this the reward pool was changed, the witness share was left untouched because they had server costs to cover. So are you saying that isn't the case? Perhaps the Witnesses are being paid too much and that should be reduced and have the extra be paid out to curation and content creation.
Also, talk about insulating the top Witnesses. You essentially a proposing a lifetime appointment. They will keep the stake they have and the community has to try and catch up with 1/8 the reward pool?
As for inflation, what is it, 8%? People believe that others are not buying because of the inflation rate. I bet if you ask most people they have no idea what the inflation rate is of their top 5 holdings. Hell, Ethereum is questioned whether you can even figure it out.
How about, instead of monkeying around with inflation, we focus upon generating, oh say 50% growth over the next 12 months? If that happens, that 8% inflation rate would see miniscule.
Leofinance mooned yet it has an inflation rate of over 20% and even still there is a liquidity problem.
Perhaps instead of monkeying around with inflation rates, tribes and other DApps should start to focus upon sound business practices such as getting more customers. After all, isn't that the basis of any business?
Of course, lowering the inflation rate to the point you suggest basically makes focusing upon HIVE not relevant, in turn making Hive Engine tokens more important.
Very wise grasshopper.
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To a hammer everything looks like a nail.
Maybe one the mosquito lands on his nutsack he will realize hammers don't solve all problems.
😂
I guess the hypothesis is that less sell pressure will have an effect on the price. However, it seems to me, there is plenty of contrary evidence. Steemit, Inc. were selling 800k STEEM a month. When they stopped selling, it made no difference whatsoever to the price.
What about all those other projects (including Steem) that have so far less going for them than Hive does? Why is their token price better?
And what about the Hive price immediately jumping up around the forking away from Steem, and also going to $0.80 when there were major exchange listings with giveaways?
It seems to me the common factor in all those examples is hype. Nothing other than pure hype. How much is printed and how much is sold doesn't matter whatsoever, you can play with these parameters forever and it wouldn't make any difference for the price. But make a giveaway and see the price jump.
How do you know it didn't make any difference? It makes huge psychological differences when you see people getting free HIVE and selling it constantly. Why should you buy HIVE (from them), if those who are in the system and benefit from it, don't have an incentive to hold it? It's like eating at a restaurant where the chef won't eat his/her own dishes.
How does messing with the inflation rate increase incentive to hold it?
Agree, inflation is by far not the main reason!
DAO fund is paying
46601600 HBD/day and at current prices, this is1,399,050480,000 HIVE per month.We are paying almost 2x more for development than when we had Steemit IncEdit: I made an error while calculating how much funds are paid from DAO. The correct number is ~1600 HBD/day.
There has been a lot of focus on reducing sell pressure, but I haven't seen any progress in creating demand.
Most users have enough RCs to transact and it is very clear there will be little to no marketing, proposals are being used to support important blockchain development, but I don't see anything that makes me think Wow, that is going to get Hive noticed.
When people were talking about Hive during the split the price went up.
You can cut the supply down to nothing and still there will be price issues if there is no reason to buy and hold.
Hive is not a charity, people will come when they feel like there is something to gain by holding it.
Start by answering this question...
Why should anyone buy Hive? What FOMO does it evoke, what can they gain from holding it, why do they want more?
It's paying 1.6k HBD per day currently, but it could go up to 8k HBD. Though, I don't think we should pay 66k HIVE (8k HBD) per day while HIVE is at 12 cents.
I manually calculated HDB paid (using https://wallet.hive.blog/proposals), and seems I made some error.
Thanks for correcting me :)
I think you made a fantastic point here. Sometimes, I wonder what the relevance of some of the proposals gulping down this money are to the Hive blockchain. We really need to look at it. Plus,I think the power down window should be reduced to allow more people have the confidence of powering up.
Most of the proposals I recently looked over and supported were fundamental structure related or client creation project-like stuff, but in general, I don't recall seeing anything that just looked wasteful. I wasn't looking at it through that lens, though.
Personally, I don't think we're talking enough about onboarding new users. I posted in more detail below, but generally speaking Hive is more of a VIP lounge than a dance floor and there's no sex in the champagne room or something like that.... I'll workshop it.
None of them would be pointing this out.
I made an error while calculating funds, the correct number is only 1600 HBD/day (under 500k HIVE/month).
Is this really true? I'm in shock.
It's not, I made an error calculating funds, it's actually only 1600 HDB/day.
Bro you're just living in a alien world.. What stupidity is this? What kind of coin just live for hype? Why won't you just join some pyramid scheme instead. There's lot of hype there...
DOLPHIN status, 5k HIVE
I’m not at all concerned about a sub-8% inflation rate. But the true rate is more like 14% because of HBD conversions.
By now it’s pretty clear that HBD is a failed experiment. It’s long past time to kill it off. Make 50/50 rewards be HP/HIVE instead of HP/HBD. Then have a something like a six month window where people can do conversions. After that, if some exchanges want to list it, fine. Otherwise let it die, die, die.
I concur. The problem with the HBD model is that HIVE is subsidizing the peg. It works great when the price of Hive is on the rise. When that happens each conversion creates less and less Hive which contributes to a lower inflation rate but it works in the other direction when the opposite takes place.
Essentially HBD holders can manipulate the price of HBD in order to buy it cheap, convert to Hive, sell it (which pressures the price dowwn)...rinse and repeat.
The witnesses could take action by modifying the interest rate to incentivize holding HBD instead of converting it or they could change the bias factor to deincentivize conversion but they are not taking action,
BTW the manipulation scenario that I described 2 paragraphs above is not theoretical, it has been put in practice systematically on the korean exchange Upbit.
One factor that @aggroed is not considering is that reducing the inflation rate so dramatically will lead to a lot of stake being powered down by making it less attractive to hold it by virtue of a reduced ROI.
Maybe the current inflation rate is too high right now but it is not the biggest factor that is contributing to the declining price relative to BTC (in the long run which asset is not decining against it?).
My stance is that in the long run the only thing that will help sustain the price is a constant demand for resource credits. We are not there yet.
Harsh but true. What to do?
A brilliant concept that flourished. A first mover in the field of tokenized social media with others doing the same since, on other blockchains. And yet, with so much potential, Hive still flounders.
HBD does create a lot of inflation.
Inflation already drops about .5% per annum and will settle in at 1% in a decade or so I thought. In any case, I do not concur with this, let the inflation continue to drop incrementally. Even without the ninja mine, the distribution needs to improve even more than it has already.
No offense, this seems like it's rooted in lack of patience and desire for instant gratification regarding unit price. If the same amount of effort was put into marketing and building demand for the token as it is with building stuff, this probably wouldn't even be a conversation. The 'Build it and they will come' mentality rarely ever works. I'm not sure decreasing supply will drive demand either within this context, as much as it will probably drive away users. Our problem is a lack of eye balls. Unfortunately our brain trust on Hive consists of mostly software developers and not marketeers. There also seems to be little concern with making the technology less esoteric, so our adoption curve is shit.
I don't know if this is true in all cases, but in the case of Hive it definitely is. So much good development, and... crickets.
They didn't remove the Ninja Mine they moved it. Plus they added the stake of those they decided not to stake in Hive. All they changed was who allocates it.
Right now it is not liquid and must be hard forked into use. It is part of the total supply, but not circulating supply. It's not a huge factor in terms of HIVE price in the short term. Besides that, it should not matter for the same reason 8% inflation should not matter. Real demand for HIVE would soak it and the inflation up no problem. While it's great we have so many builders and coders working on projects, it doesn't build real demand. Of course builders and coders will look at this as an engineering problem, but GitHub updates don't fuel hype for 99% of the potential users unfortunately, and neither will changing algorithms.
Exactly, what I don't understand is why you make marketing for SL but not for Hive. Is evident that we're like the cinderella that nobody knows. (Yeah I know is a very kitch reference but i think that reflects well the situation)
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"Unfortunately our brain trust on Hive consists of mostly software developers and not marketeers"
I don't consider this unfortunate. It does seem to present a challenge, but our team has been on fire since the fork from steem and I've really enjoyed watching everyone rolling up their sleeves and getting stuff done. However, I do agree building a monument without telling anyone one it's there doesn't seem like a solid plan to launch a tourist attraction.
I would much rather see HBD being similar to how Dai is created.
We need to start using Hive (even Hp if possible)as a collateral to print HBD.
But yeah, Inflation has been a big problem and obviously tokenomics have to be improved
I like this idea! I would totally vote for it
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Things like dropping inflation or nerfing post rewards always sound like an alternative to increasing demand. Increased demand would probably be better all around. Of course, I have no ideas for how to increase demand 😂
Give people value and demand will increase! By value I mean, something useful not just rewards but better platform and place to be on internet.
Marketing, advertising etc... We need more people here. Hive is very unknown for most of the people out there.
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How about burning the funds in the DAO instead? It's not really working, which is a major reason why the token price is so low.
The distribution of what exactly? HIVE rewards?
HIVE is not Bitcoin. Bitcoin's value proposition is to be an inflation hedge. Investing in Bitcoin is betting against a broken financial/economic system where central banks are forced to overprint currency. HIVE is a utility coin on the Hive blockchain. It will be gobled up in no time if there is growth. Growth is lacking because either 1) the time for tokenized social media/online communities hasn't come, yet 2) not enough development is being done 3) or there has been a failure of governance on Hive.
#3 is not fixed by further centralizing power. My guess the reason Hive isn't growing as much as it could is a combination of #1 and #2. This is so radically new that many obstacles for adoption still exist. Also, while some interesting new second layer projects have been launched, a critical mass hasn't yet been reached.
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Meanwhile people are literally KYCing themselves to put GIFs on Parler. The market for censorship resistance has never been bigger, Bitcoin is in a bullrun, the fiat printers are going 'Brrrrr' and Hive is struggling to hold 10cents.
With so few trying to make accounts it's also near instant now... so that currently isn't the problem either.
Lack of a smart contract layer and therefore hype for future projects is the only thing left. People invest based on fundamentals and hype, ROI here is negative... and the hype is gone because we can't be much more than a social platform with out a real smart contract layer.
I agree with everything except for the part about the DAO. The @hive.fund account does not release new hive to the market. It only dishes out HBD. We can make the case that it contributes indirectly to the selling pressure if those HBDs are converted to hive but the amount that is distributed via proposals is small compared to what is printed via rewards.
Currently the lack of markets for HBD make it practically imposible to reduce the selling pressure of hive. People need to convert or trade their hive dollars on the internal market instead of selling them directly on exchanges.
Sure, it's only 10% whereas the content rewards are 65%.
It's traded against BTC on Upbit and Bittrex.
https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/hive_dollar#markets
The problem with the lack of exchanges for HBD is that not everybody can use the existing ones. Both require KYC and on Upbit you need to be a korean national or use the branch for Indonesia. Bittrex is a USA exchange that has very stringent requirements to use. So most users are unable to trade them directly for BTC. Either they use a third party like blocktrades which carries an additional cost in fees or they exchange for Hive and then sell that on another exchange.
Nice idea.
First of all thanks for everything that you have done to help hive and all the tools you have created. I know that people are quick to give out but slow to appreciate the hard work.
Now that that is out of the way its time to give out. 😄
Hbd is a pointless and unessessary token that complicates the system and adds to hive inflation. Step one should be to phase that out and simplify the whole experience. One token, one price. Then get you 4 week power down which people are more accustomed to and more attractive to stake.
I do think that you missed a big trick when you first launched tribes . What LeoFinance is now is what I was hoping to see from the tribes feature, with easy onboarding, nice ui, ad revenue, separate communities and the ability to customise and improve the sites easily.
It seems like once they were launched that the team just stopped working on the product and I know there have been huge issues from the people that launched new tribes to get anything done with them. The shame is that these were the first project with actual revenue possibilities on a large scale.
A project that could be multiplied into dozens of active tribes, all recruiting people directly onto their system and indirectly hive earning a large amount of ad revenue cumulatively between them and buying large amounts of hive from the market through the ad program. Instead the sites were cloned and left to flounder with no updates or direction without hiring a team of developers to build each part individually on each tribe.
If we want a higher token price the quickest fix is to have more users. They will drive the price forward, create hype and bring in more people if they enjoy the experience. I would love to see more projects built that can actually do this like tribes almost did instead of all the off the wall complicated stuff that people won't use. They have a place too but building a strong foundation and growing the user base should take priority to get to that stage.
I vote for 1% reduction per year and kill HDB
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That is unnecessary. HDB can be allowed to live a life of its own.
I am guessing that there would have to be a fair bit more spread of the 0.33 to witnesses than just the top 20.
If you cut post rewards, people will leave for other blogging platforms and the whole system will crash.
the blogging concept of Hive has already crashed.
Only LEO seems to have made this work.
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Leo works because it has buy pressure. The problem here is that for everything that is getting developed they repeatedly ignore basic business principles the add buy pressure. Revenue, use case, incentives to hold the token. Instead rewards are all sold lowering the price.
Leo has a liquidity pool, ad revenue, token burns and curation teams all helping to put their token to use well.
Agreed. The business models for most projects are grow and run.
I would submit — based on close to 20 years of contributing to User-Generated Content for Rewards venues — that reducing inflation and cutting rewards isn't the answer. Most likely, what that will succeed in doing is cutting the rate of content creation in the short run, and in the longer run pushing out more valuable "hand crafted" content in favor of low-value, low-effort content that can be automatically posted in a matter of seconds.
Where does a low price come from? On the surface, a situation where there are more sellers than buyers creates constant selling pressure. BELOW that, is a culture where the primary purpose is pitching an activity geared towards selling.
What does that mean, in English? As long as the primary pitch to get someone to join Hive is "Make money" people are going to do precisely what they joined up for... make money, which means selling their Hive. If the primary pitch were BUILD STAKE in the platform you're using, then the objective swings more in the direction of powering up and HODLing, rather than selling.
Unfortunately, that genie has been let out of the bottle a long time ago, and I am not sure how we would stuff it back in.
For a long time, I've been suggesting that we need use cases here that necessitates OWNING Hive rather than SELLING Hive. Things like peer-to-peer marketplaces that keep the liquid Hive circulating internally; if I can buy a pack of rechargeable batteries for 100 Hive rather than cashing out the Hive and going to Amazon, etc; just like I would submit that more Splinterlands-LIKE dApps/communities would be a plus, because you have to have some Hive to play.
In short, we have to make it less attractive to sell.
Another thing I have suggested a couple of times is to create different classes of staking... a bit like bank certificates of deposit. Maybe channel some of that inflation at rewarding people for committing to a 1-year, or 2-year or even 5-year stake... which voluntarily locks up part of the Hive supply for longer periods of time, again making it less attractive to sell.
But hey, I could just be blowing wind out of my ass!
=^..^=
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I would remove Hive as reward option entirely and leave it only for witnesses and maybe for node operators, as it seems this nodes need some support on running. Everything else in terms of payouts, shall be done via the communities. HP shall still be needed for running the communities, RC and other options on the blockchain.
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This is the reason for me why I have in a sense lost confidence in HIVE going to the moon... the selling pressure is just too much. I am not really selling but no way I am buying... there are more exciting things out there.
I believe 5k is a dolphin, the minnow is 500
I'm all for it. I actually didn't read this post before my rant on MM, but it seems we've got similar thoughts. For the %, I'm not sure whether it should be .33% for witnesses, .33% for DAO, and .33% for post rewards.
Currently, far more people are benefiting from post rewards than people are benefiting from the DAO. I mean, DAO payments are very focused on productive work, but I doubt that any company would pay a few devs full 80k+ USD salary, while their company is struggling.
We should also think about burning some of the HBD within the DAO.
So maybe something like..
0.15% for DAO, 0.35% post rewards, 0.15% witnesses, 0.35% staking rewards.Oh and now that I remember, I even wrote a post about sub 2% inflation as well 😃
https://hive.blog/steem/@therealwolf/steem-2020-reducing-inflation-to-less-than-2
Os this a joke? I think 33%33%33% is a bad blend.
What about inflation for holding hp. I can add.
Why are witnesses and developers going from 25% to 67%? Do they really deserve to be rewarded with Hive going from 30s to 160s.
Did they not already fuck this crypto over enough?
Key point, you want to increase value, give me a reason to buy Hive from a consumer point of view.
The quality of posts is already junk. Lowering rewards will not improve quality, it will just mean more boring junk so the "pro-bloggers" can continue to support themselves with nonsense that no one wants to pay for.
I no longer trust Hive as a good investment. If I buy some I'm just helping people who don't deserve my money. I may as well speculate on XRP or Tron.
I can make more money holding usdt, lol.
Did you read my comment fully?
I meant it as a top-level comment, I just pasted it in here, by accident.
Actually, our thinking is in line regarding what any new mix should be - assuming the recovered ninja mined isn't burned. If it is burned I think 50% going to devs and witnesses would be appropriate. Going above 50% isn't very appealing to anyone who isn't an insider or skilled.
Hey Wolf,
Are you one of the Hive witnesses that owned a stake in Steemit Inc?
I'm not trying to roast all Hive witnesses so I have to rule out the ignorant ones.
I didn't own anything regarding Steemit Inc.
Why do you think other witnesses did?
When Dan left Steemit Inc he gave away his shares...
I keep being getting flabbergasted by how little Hive witnesses know.
So you're telling me you don't know @blocktrades and several hive witnesses are beneficial owners of Steemit Inc?
Inflation rate is not the issue.
Use cases / reasons to buy Hive are (we need more)
Building a business on Hive just like anywhere else requires capital.
To think you can come and build a business on Hive and not put in any capital just ask for investors share of the blockchain and not have it make the price go down is the sad state of most projects on the chain. (and that doesn't even talk about all the projects that have taken funds and run)
The fact most top witnesses sell everything they make and the DAO is just another way for whales to decide how to sell more to the exchanges is a reason to have everyone look at who they are voting for and not support these witnesses.
I personally can't wait until the price gets so low most of these people leave the chain completely. Only then can we rebuild and grow into what we can become.
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Good idea, but we can't reduce inflation to 1/8th in single HF that would cause a havoc. Instead we can reduce 1-2% every 6 month or 1 year. That will have long-term effect. We also need more trading pairs for Hive as well HBD with ETH. Also we need to consider, a lot part of inflation is coming from HBD conversions, So if we have more trading pairs of HBD then may be it can be controlled or just reduce or remove HBD rewards.
We are in desperate need of delegation pools as well more User friendly UI. Bee chat is a good step combined with peakd. We need peakd or another UI to cover and make EASY UI for users. Overall onboarding and use concept is still difficult to understand for a normal person. We need to make it Easy.
Hive even doesn't show up on google search, we need to do something about it. Hive.io and hive.blog need to be SEO optimized to be appeared on top 5 results. because when people search hive, it shows hive blockchain technology company instead of us. There is a lot of things we need to do, a lot of development.
Interesting thoughts and I agree we need more businesses and people interested in Hive as an investment. Will these changes mean that we will now earn 1/8th the hive power on posts than we used to? That's what it sounds like. Stacking hive power has been one of my goals and I do agree that so many people just dump the token which sucks but some people do what they have to do.
Additionally, would earning more HBD per post be a result? I guess that could offset the reduction in hive available for me to power up.
I just don't know the impacts to what people earn would be. I've only sold 5$ worth of hive and that was just once, so I'd enjoy being able to continue to stack the token in hopes of future uses like creating a token of my own to coincide with something I am working on.
What I think happens is as the token increases in price you just get less token, so if you get $1 instead of 4/5 hive for your 5% reward you get 0.500, it's only a number change and jinking the scoreboard, its more a psychological thing and financial engineering than an actual fundamental change, debating this is actually pointless
Just get it and get it done already lol
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Hmm wouldn't 1/8 of 1$ mean that it would be .125 hive per 1$ earned? That would then be cut by 50/50 reward, so .0625? Might be conflating the math there but that's tough lol
Lol it’s late and I’m too tired to do math, but you get the point it’s just a change in the token allocation! It’s not only that sellers far outstrip buyers is also the fact that we’re simply not generating enough users to come in and compete the old inflation rates was based on a certain growth pattern steemit had in mind so time to change it
Hmm. Make sense to me 👍
Haha, I can hear the angry mob of scammers xD
I think reducing inflation would be a good idea. I do not know how the community as a whole thinks about it though.
This is a complex topic and one that will not easily find a lot of friends among the people that have already build their business here. If this proposal will get through, it has to be successful, meaning the price of HIVE had to go up significantly. Because a way back - increasing the inflation - will not be an option on (still) low HIVE prices. The best idea may therefore be to time a move like this in an uptrend (when regularly nobody is thinking about a step like that). As it looks like the HIVE price is influenced by a lot more forces as its inflation, we may be unlucky and time it into a BTC correction or into news that the SEC is strongly calling for regulations of utility tokens or whatever can happen what we are not aware of yet.
On the other hand, there are several possibilities to earn on other tokens in the communities and for the onboarding of new users, enough HIVE and RC-account tokens may already be around. For the "masses" that we expect to join every other day, we only have to manage expectations. In summary, I am more in favour of the idea but see also some risks. The main problem is to find enough stake voting for this kind of proposal...
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Most of the inflation in the last 4+ years have come from HBD conversions.
That is something to take in consideration.
The HBD algorithmic peg is also a big problem, during a bear market, STEEM/HIVE had an effective inflation rate of over 20% p.a. due to how the peg is implemented, which is insane and unsustainable. It's even still not possible to convert HIVE to HBD, when HBD is greater than $1. The HBD peg implementation allows a debt ratio of 10%, which is way too high in my opinion.
The witnesses could take action to mitigate the effects of HBD conversions by modifying the interest paid on holding hive dollars or by changing the bias factor that impacts the conversions directly (under certain market conditions). As stakeholders of hive we are in part to blame for not holding them accountable for their hands-off aproach.
Thanks for bringing up the idea and most of all, thanks for doing wonders for the ecosystem yourself. In my opinion, the latter is the more important part - attractive projects rather than nominal changes that might do the psychological trick...or not. It's all the same if I have one of $ 0.8 or eight of $ 0.1 in the end.
Not saying it can't work because, honestly, I don't know. But I feel something else (like the hype mentioned and speculation) rules the market. And Hive better stick to its unique features. Or find more unique features.
I don't know enough to say what the solution is but I agree that something needs to be done to bring some life back to the Hive token itself. The tribes and their separate tokens is excellent, but unless Hive climbs in price like ETH, it implies that the entire design of the token is flawed somewhat.
Tokenized social media blogging is such a brilliant concept, and works - in theory - as we have already seen. It's just the Hive price that isn't reciprocating. I presume having an unlimited liquidity pool of Hive tokens is too inflationary. Like the USD money printing perhaps?
I would be in favor of cutting the inflation rate. Maybe 2% would be less contentious and still accomplish your goal.
I think we need marketing, but I know it will never happen.
I think we desperately need to fix the inflation issues we're facing. Whether it's through decreasing the amount people earn, or buy implementing useful features that counter it via burning while providing some type of genuinely useful service. I've found Hive to be really disappointing since we've distanced ourselves from Steemit Inc. While it does take a lot of time to plan and implement change, it's sad to see that said change is just as slow under freedom than it was under centralisation.
We don't have voting options for changes we want to see and implement, we just have the proposals and that's merely just to fund projects, not see what the community wants; there's no page for us to actually vote for features we feel are useful on the chain itself. Unfortunately, as was the case on Steem, the community appears to be stuck screaming into the void regarding the want for improvements.
More info why you see this.
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Now that we have the dao, can't witness rewards reflect that lack of need for development from witnesses?
Can we also get the poor tax taken off comment votes?
I'm in at 3%, demand is more the problem than supply, if the witnesses and authors don't value hive above other coins, then what are we doing here?
Reducing selling is a good idea, iyam.
Where are you on slowing the first layer to include some second layer functionality?
I think I am falling on the fast first layer side.
the reduction in inflation was also proposed by @blocktrades and I am in favor. We must reduce the printing of the currency otherwise we will be a bit like the dollar ... constant inflation
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remove 100% from curation/author with working Smts. Would be a better IMO.
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I'd be open to cutting the inflation to 1% - 3% range with a yearly reduction like we have now. I would like to see delegation pools, resource pools, SMT's to help offset this change and push bloggers into second layer tokens for their demand, while HIVE is for resources and governance
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I agree about this point. Therefore, you see a constant decline in prices. Absolutely, we need to do something about inflation.
However, keep in mind that the Hive lacks marketing and new exchanges. Without active marketing and adding to major exchanges, nothing will work. It's worth seriously returning to this problem.
15600 new users from splinterlands this year, only 20$ is 2mil+ hive
you have an opportunity to see how much people spend on a game, is 20$ to much?
50.000 new users on the chain that would invest only 20$ is over 6mil hive.
is inflation the problem, or lack of new users?
i don't know, i am not smart enough for this.
All for reducing inflation, but 1% is just too low. I think posting rewards should be done on a separate layer 1 SMT token and let hive be just for governance + resource credits.
Tôi đồng ý với bạn là nên cắt giảm lạm phát để hive có thể tiến xa hơn, và tôi có thể kiếm nhiều tiền hơn. chí ít chúng ta cũng kiếm được một thứ gì đó để no bụng.
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Well worded, agree with some and other stuff not so much and that's how free thinking goes but as of right now this post is making 11 bucks roughly......... there were and are plenty of "OG's" around who get little to no support yet are hamfisted into feeling they must belong to this or that "gang" to have their voice heard.
Instead of the OG's catering to some it should be the other way around and that is what is playing out now....op/ed
Happy New Year's!
I think you make valid points but for a large and established economic system. That is not HIVE. Any decision we make should be geared to on-boarding and growing the system. The main issue with HIVE is not the valuation of posts, or that too much is flowing out of the system; although that is obviously happening ... but mot with me ... the problem it is that not enough is flowing in for the growth to outstrip the harvest ... so to speak.
The on-boarding of HIVE needs to be free and easy and the knowledge base required for posting needs to be minimal, no more difficult that it is for FB. I have convinced a few people to join and none of them stuck with it. And the little guy needs to feel he can get somewhere on this platform in a reasonable amount of time.
I now feel after 5 years that is me ... thank you curators ... but keep in mind too, I invested and have never removed a cent from the two block chains as a whole. I was convinced to move the bulk of steem holding because although HIVE is valued less now, I felt that my posts on HIVE got more attention and definitely more curation value.
(Let's be frank too ... steem isn't falling because there is one main investor who is not selling)
So despite the HIVE coin being less valuable ... the blockchain on the whole has more value to a blogger and creator.
So having a low valued coin is not necessarily a weakness ... in the short run ... if it allows for cheaper onboarding.
The key to this or any blockchains success, especially in the beginning, is adoption and retention.
We have to make it easier for people to get on board, want to stay, and to purchase HIVE.
Inflation vs holders. I think it has relation. More users or holders will reduce the inflation or supplly in the market. Let learm from steemit today. Steem delegate million power to booming1 -3. Those three accounts will be currators that support easy topic for minnows. More new users are joining steem now specially from Asia. In hive new accounts live for weeks and inactive due no earning. Hive is not only for whales but for all. Why more people join leo? leo earning is better and leo voters are more active . That is simple more users better value of hive
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steem is currently at 4.1% so thats end of this discussion
I think that you've made a valid point with the reduction of inflation. 1% appears to be quite extreme but 2% or thereabouts will not be a bad idea. The distribution of the rewards between DAO, witnesses, and the community is what I do not agree with. More rewards should go to the community.
After cutting inflation, we also have to reduce the power down window like Steem have done while making HP more attractive. This will go a long way in positively impacting the price of Hive.
This doesn't seem to be a deliberate opinion to me, simply dictated by fear of losing (actually not making more...) money. Do you truly believe in this technology?
I'm going to remove my witness approval, I cannot support this viewpoint.
Im fairly new to Hive ecosystem so I dont have a proper opinion on this. I, for one, with less than 100 HP, welcome every bit because I feel good when I upvote someone and send more than 0,002 HP... And also because I want to have more Hives to play those great Hive titles like @dcity or @splinterlands...
But I understand your proposition. Scarcity always help to value. However, there are lots of systems designed inside Hive to keep all those inflated Hive busy, so Im not sure its a super big problem.
Community creation is harder than tokenomics, imho. And Hive community is fantastic, and maybe due to the first experiences that a newcomer has.
Just my 2 cents ofc.
I don't know anything about finance, but I know some of the problems I have getting friends and family to give Hive a serious look, as well as a few issues I have with it.
I've burned the topic of crypto anything. Once blockchain is introduced the conversation is effectively over. I feel like while the over all buzz around crypto is still growing but there's also a fatigue spreading. People who have decided they just don't care are tired of hearing about it so maybe setting up a way to enter that stores their keys and gives them a simple password until they're ready to take off the training wheels would be a possible solution to onboard those folks.
I've mentioned this before, and it's gotten significantly better over the last few months (and I know more is coming), but it's a mobile world and Hive is pc oriented. I have friends and family that don't even own a computer. If they can't do it on their phone, it's not worth doing ...unless there's a judge calling the shots or something of that nature, but I digress. I can't get full access to some stuff on Hive without hive keychain and it's not available on iPhone. I have hivesigner, which seems to unlock additional layers, but even I, a user since 2016, is still finding ways to struggle for a purely enjoyable experience. There's just still not an app for most things, here, much less an app for everything, and I see that as significant in my own surroundings.
Disclaimer: I'm not tech savvy, or really into social media curation or consumption, so I'm likely over looking something, but I don't really connect with the vast community here on an individual level. I'm connected to the spirit of Hive in it's entirety, but there are only a few focused things I do here and those things rarely require me to interact with the community, although when I do everyone is awesome (more on that below), but the point is I find it very difficult to get anyone interested. Facebook is "free", it's insanely easy to get on, virtually impossible to get out of, and everyone they know is already there.
Everyone is too nice here. I love it, but it's boring as hell. We're fucking censorship resistant and have absolutely zero interesting controversy. There's a sad fact we optimists sometimes have trouble facing, and that's the world is garbage, too. I think a lot of the pull for most of us here is that it's a refuge from all the bs in the world where we can look to, and build a brighter future, but that only satiates part of our nature. My brother rants on Facebook, looking down his nose from the top of the heap, without taking notice he's in the same landfill, daily. TBH, I'd probably block him if he was posting here, but I'd still like to get him here so he can see the other stuff he's missing out on, and maybe get him onboard with looking/moving forward. Maybe we need a dump for the flies to buzz around?
There's really no pull for the average FB, Twitter, etc. user here. There are all kinds of cool tools, but nothing that gets them into anyone's hands. I found Steem because I was temp banned from FB and ticked off. The fact it was blockchain based, at a time when I was really getting confident there was a lot to watch in the space, made it an easy sell. The fact I got some steem for signing up didn't hurt, either. The point is there's no party here for people who just want to have fun. Everyone is driven or focused. It's not a particularly inviting environment to people who aren't already into crypto, finance, investing, or one of the various games or play projects scattered about.
Most of these things seem like marketing issues to me. The mobile stuff, aside (although I do think it's a factor here), there just aren't enough people here. Maybe we could fund a contest or something for a marketing strategy. Maybe fund our top communities to recruit from parallel groups from other social media with enticing prizes/bonuses/rewards for signing up. I know (aggroed) you're trying to make a place here where any idiot can set up a shop, but you're lacking idiots to set up shops. :D
I think that's about all I have at the moment. I hope it's helpful.
As an afterthought... In addition to a lack of marketing, we aren't marketing to the right people. I listen to several podcasts, wherein the hosts or guests commonly complain about issues Hive resolves or has the potential to better navigate. We should be reaching out to journalists, media personalities and influencers who already have significant followings to bring with them. We could overthrow Patreon in a few years once fans/followers realize they can support their favorite publishers with upvotes instead of donations and I'm sure it'll be easier to sell fans on staking a few bucks (they can retrieve later if they want) to power upvotes than than to just give money they'll never see again. I've tried to put it out on Twitter to some of the people I follow and I've gotten a little attention but the guy I'm talking to is too busy doing his job and pursuing his passion to give Hive a close enough look to realize how useful he would find it. How do I incentivize that guy, with 70K+ followers that fund him and his work regularly, to just start linking his post to the account I created for him and gave him the keys to, or post on Dapplr, along side Twitter?