Wrote a long comment earlier that could've probably been its own post but it kind of triggered me when I kept hearing the term "unwritten rules" regarding hive activities which I feel like should be quite universal stuff you shouldn't be doing in other places either.
The discussion here was regarding AI generated content of an author who recently had started producing content more often, which in and of itself is not something anyone should judge or be against, but finding out that this was due to them creating the content with the help of AI generation surely is not something we should accept as a community.
Now I understand if "unwritten rules" may mean "community guidelines" like hey it might be considered a bit in bad form to consume content, leave a comment but not reward the post with a vote if the post isn't rewarded a lot yet, etc. Or some other forms of etiquette that may not be obvious to everyone early on, but I feel like there are quite a lot of things that are generally quite universal and just because something is new, like AI technology here in this case, doesn't mean it's still uncharted territory where any and all morals are thrown out the window just because "it's not directly stated somewhere as a rule".
There's always going to be people who go against the grain on certain things.
I remember one of our onboarders who once onboarded a teacher from a school in their area and he was found to be copy-pasting content pretending its their own. It's kind of so bizarre and absurd that it stands out in my memory when this person has a job that is literally meant to look for such instances in their students and penalize them for it. It also brings forth the increasing use of AI help students are using in schools day to day which I'm sure is going to generate a ton of issues for the upcoming generations.
There was some discussions about this on Reddit a few days ago, imagine your surgeon in the near future has huddled through medschool using AI mainly to help them out pass tests and exams. Are you going to feel in good hands having someone operate on you who may have forgotten most of the things he proof-read chatgpt create? Or do you prefer someone who actually spent a lot of time and effort to at least cram those things to make sure they know them at least for a little while for the tests and later maybe revisit those memories again when it comes to practicing them.
Makes me think job applications are going to start require a longer trial period and extra checks in the near future due to AI cheating, unless they're going to bypass humanity all together for those positions.
Anyway, to get back to Hive.
It just bothered me that a top hive author kept saying things like this being an "unwritten rule" and that no one is "right or wrong" when it comes to this scenario. How is this the case?
We have a beautiful blockchain that enables us to reward any and all users with inflation by directing votes to them and instead of treasuring that it feels like we're becoming more and more accepting of more and more things that go against proof of brain.
"People are buying votes for themselves and their friends by sending Hive to this project in exchange for points" - oh well, it's too popular and obfuscated and can't be challenged and countered easily.
"People are getting votes because they delegate some HP to this project", - oh well, too many are doing it so what can we do about it really.
"People are starting to use AI to generate posts so they can continue to get the autovotes and increase their rewards/stake" - oh well, where does it state this is against the rules? We don't know if it's right or wrong to do so.
Like, what the fuck are we doing here? That same author started to suggest ghostwriting instead of AI generation for that particular author that does well vote-wise. As if that's a much better solution. Once you "make it", you can just hire someone to write the content for you and give him a share of the rewards. No, I'd rather give the original author all of the rewards and none to you cause you didn't fucking do shit.
Sorry, but these things annoy me quite a lot as it's a lot of unfair things we see in web2 compared to workers/employees and their bosses/companies and we're somehow trying to integrate that onto hive as well?
If I don't have time to post that day then I just don't fucking post, I don't have to post every day and I don't need to cry over rewards left on the table because I didn't have time. If you don't have time then you don't get rewards, it's that simple. You have to choose if the rewards are worth the time you're spending generating content, engaging with your readers and continuing to be you because you are the one being rewarded by stakeholders, autovotes, vote-trades or manual votes alike. If you're going to have a ghost writer write on your post for some reason then make it clear that's what's happening cause if you don't then you're kind of deceiving the community, curators and stakeholders by not making it obvious - same thing goes for AI generated content.
This is your personal account we're talking about, personal. If you have a brand, project or some kind of account where it doesn't really matter who is generating the content as long as it gets generated and consumed by interested parties, then for sure, go bananas on who writes it and who is involved.
Anyway, just some thoughts, here's the comment in question I left earlier, keep in mind I'm not trying to sound too upset or triggered, it's just a bit disappointing to hear people who've been here long enough who should know by now what curation is and isn't try and walk a thin line between what they'd prefer to be allowed and what not because maybe they've considered such activities themselves and don't want to spend the time, effort and originality to create content on a regular basis themselves. It has a nice comparison to the shitchain's trending page and lack of engagement if we keep allowing more and more shit activities to go rewarded here that weaken how curation is meant to be used: https://peakd.com/hive-146620/@acidyo/re-josediccus-swlrh9
Thanks for reading.
Ai is changing the game, like @miosha says using common sense in the specifics is what matters...
I believe that having a platform where you can be a content creator with witnesses that can give you the power up to continue creation... AI is just prostitution of the matter...
I started here because I'm trying to give creatives a buck out of their projects... They study 4 years and make no money, hearing of hive was like a dream come true to my people, so, I'm hopping on the common sense of the mass here.
Thx 4 sharing your thoughts as an academic your words make me reflective in some subjects especially the way I teach
To me this works very much like freedom of speech. the code allows for you to do many things. But the code doesn't protect you from the consequence of acting like an idiot.
In the same way that a Government protects your right to stay the dumbest most racist thing ever. It doesn't mean that a company has to keep you employed, or that your neighbors have to kind to you or include you.
I think I know who you are referring to here. Truth is that, this user knows better. They've been around for a long time, so claiming any sort of "lack of clarity" is just a terrible dodging attempt.
But, just like I'm a freedom of speech absolutist. This person can post as much AI content as they want. And, the community can downvote it as much as they seem fit. It's how freedom works.
Truth is that we don't even need to have an ethical discussion about using AI to do your heavy lifting. I mean, we are having it, and that's ok, but my point is that if the community doesn't like it, nor value it, it doesn't matter if there's a way to justify using it like this.
There are no "unwritten rules", there cannot be. The "common sense" is only relevant in the nearest cultural neighborhood and even then it is not that common. People disagree on everything, from fundamental things to trivial ones. For some religion is source of guidance and beauty, others think of them as manipulated idiots and source of evil. Some people think they should always be true to their beliefs and opinions, others will take regard in how other people feel, because otherwise, you know, "hate speech". Some will say stealing is wrong, for others "if anyone takes away Kali's cow, that then is a wicked deed" but "if Kali takes away the cow of somebody else, that is a good deed". Hell, even such irrelevant thing as tipping is a source of discord - one side of the ocean has it like tipping is obvious, 10 thousand kilometers away it is an affront.
As a lot of those differences stem from history and culture, at least in physical world different people tend to be split into groups separated by borders. But on permissionless blockchain with global reach there is no such thing, so people will act however they fill like, and we won't even generally know if they think that this is how they can/should act, or they realize that "in bird culture it is considered a dick move". Of course you are also entitled to react as you see fit for what you think are transgressions.
It is not uncommon to see the same type of action differently depending on context. F.e. I'll generally downvote plagiarism on Hive, but when people repost old stuff on sites such as Coub or 9gag, I'm actually happy to see something known that I might have missed so far.
As for AI, it is a lost cause to try to eradicate its use (it is even worse to use AI tools to detect AI). It is the same difference as "factory produced" vs "handmade". For me the latter immediately rises two red flags - one for "expensive" and second for "low quality". And what does it even mean something is handmade. Let's see a marble sculpture:
At which of above points the resulting sculpture loses the "handmade" property? Similar list could be made for use of AI for writing (catching typos, spelling errors, grammar corrections, pointing out bad style, suggesting synonyms to avoid repeats, looking through texts to catch contradictions etc. up to writing everything). AI is only going to get better, so it might turn out that the only way to make guess something was made by human will be to look at quality (bad quality = human), and even that will be easily faked. So I'm using different criteria. It doesn't matter how something came to be, the important difference is "mass produced" vs "custom made". Let's say there is a travel blog - I have no way of knowing if the events described actually happened (so truth vs lie cannot be a factor) or whether linked photos match the story, but if the brief and title was enticing and post was interesting enough for me to actually read it, then I will upvote without even looking if AI was involved.
Interesting points! The future is gonna stir things up quite a bit!
First to be clear let me say this upfront: I completely agree with you on this.
Having said that, I wish there were some written rules on use of AI. I believe in technology and technological progress, so AI use is inevitable and can actually be beneficial.
I think AI should be used to improve our original content and make us better authors. But it is way too easy to cross the line here, and I am not talking about the obvious write a prompt into ChatGPT and have it generate something based on a fairly easy prompt. I am talking about less obvious use cases of AI and I wish those would have been spelled out somewhere.
For example:
I really suck and making post banner images. It is actually easier for me to grab one of my photos and use it as a banner, or in the case of Splinterlands just grab one of their challenge images. That is 30 seconds and I have an image. But to make a unique and relevant cool looking image I have spent over an hour on a single image in ChatGPT to come up with it using multiple prompts and refining it. I think this is a valid use case that creates a unique image that makes content stronger.
I am not a native English speaker and sometimes I find it beneficial to write the whole post manually and then ask AI to improve it. The post is all me, my original ideas, I am just taking an extra step to refine my post via AI. This is also an extra effort and I rarely get to that.
Sometimes I am out of ideas about what to write that day and I simply ask AI to give me some ideas, other than interacting with AI and refining idea list no AI ever touches the post, that seems like a valid use of tool as well.
I am sure there are other examples that I didn't think of but the main idea is that valid uses of AI should be adding to author workload in order to improve their content and not substitute or take shortcuts or shorten their content generation process.
[edit]
P.S. No AI was used in generating this reply.
[edit]
P.S. No AI was used in generating this reply.
Bullshit. Only AI would think to add the disclaimer.
LOL :) sure...
DUDE.. having a kid who is graduating High School here shortly and a kid in Elementary school. this scares me the most. These kids use AI for everything that they are not "learning" how to do anything?
It was like back in my day, teachers would always say that we can't use calculators because we have to learn how to do this because we won't always have a calculator handy...
obviously that turned out to be wrong haha but the premise is accurate. I was framing my house and drywalling it and I busted out Pythagorean Theorem to find the lengths of a triangle I had to cut. It's literally written in Sharpie on my subfloor of the math I was doing.
But I do not want a Gen-Z person as my doctor EVER in my life or as my lawyer lol
Lol soon they'll post a pic of the drywall to chatgpt and ask it to do the math. Times are changing but if you're completely helpless you're not gonna be able to rely on AI all the time.
HA I didn't even think of that. I mean that's clever but also sad hahaha
By following and reading many authors here on Hive, I realized which post you are referring to. I voted for that post because it was a post against the use of AI on Hive but on ghostwriting I fully agree with you because the beauty of Hive is that you can write whatever you want in total freedom. I really enjoy writing my posts on Hive and I see no reason why I should have others do it especially because I would not respect my readers who even if they are few deserve my utmost respect.
Regarding the use of AI on Hive I have had mile-long opinions exchanged here on Hive.
I personally chose not to vote for AI-generated posts because incentivizing them would only produce disadvantages on Hive (this is my personal and debatable opinion).
For me those who want to write AI content on Hive can do so but only by explicitly stating the use and what parts were generated by AI because the reader always deserves the utmost respect. I also think that almost always behind those who want totally AI posts to be accepted on Hive is the desire to earn rewards in a short time.
But those who want totally AI-generated posts to be rewarded on Hive have not understood that where there is no time spent earning something, that something quickly becomes of little value as in idle games where without a fun game at the base everyone sells as time goes on...
It's just my opinion but people who want to write totally AI posts on Hive and also want them not to be downvoted I don't think have growth goals on Hive or don't have a vision for Hive in the medium to long term...
Thank you for this post and I fully agree with your line of thinking about AI, ghostwriters and Hive
@tipu curate
May I ask why you welcome and curate non-italian posts in that community? It just seems counterproductive and only convincing people to post there for the additional upvote of users like @fedesox, etc.
If it's cause of lack of users I'd understand but there's still other options on how to spend your voting power if there aren't enough authors. I'm not sure I understand the "need" to have more users posting in a community whether relevant or not.
Hi @acidyo you can ask anything you want :)
Olio di balena is a generalist community and in the community rules Italian language is highly valued (well acepted) but not a requirement to post in the community.
In case Italian users increase in the future there will be less support for those who do not write in Italian because voting power is limited.
Only the community account balaenoptera is focused on supporting only Italian content through upvotes and through the weekly contest.
All members of Olio di Balena are free to vote for who they want based on personal evaluations.
The main goal of the community is to increment italian contents and italian users (onboarding new users) but is also to encourage the creation of content on Hive, preferably in Italian. I have noticed that many who write on Odb not in Italian mainly write content related to Hive-based games that have no specific community or rarely receive support in other communities.
Certainly the @fedesox vote is a strong incentive to post on Odb as it is for all communities that have orcas or whales curating content in specific communities but personally I see no problem in supporting non-Italian content on Olio di Balena community also because those who decides to give 3% to balaenoptera directly incentivizes those who participate in the contest (and future contest) and in the contest only those who write in Italian can participate.
by the way balaenoptera is a non-profit account and there is no personal benefit or community competition behind the voting to non-Italian users by the Olio di balena team.
Yeah I remember you talking about the balaenoptera account before, it's all good. Just feels a bit unnecessary to encourage "any" content and in "any" language, but I guess some users go wherever there's an extra vote. Wish stakeholders would try to encourage good use of communities rather than just getting anyone and everyone to post there as it just makes communities lose value and for newcomers to have a hard time finding the right users if they go to a community and there's content about anything and everything (also a reason why we deserted the ocd community, lately it's just being used for intro posts for some reason).
Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 6/36) Liquid rewards.
Rather than "unwritten rules" I prefer the "common sense" words
If I open chatgpt and ask to generate a beautiful landscape and paste on hive, without adding anything even that's ai, should I get rewarded? No
If I do train my own model in local, make loras, do my text-to-image, then image-to-image then Photoshop it taking 3 days, I make a post where I explain how I did, should I get rewarded? Probably yes
Right now with Ai it's black or white, while it should not, case by case, can be grey too
I read a bit of frustration there 😁 My personal opinion when it's ok to use AI is to help with rephrasing or correcting your sentances so that it's easier for the reader. AI should be used as an assistant but not have full control over your creativity.
People who rely on AI are going to be out of work and broke. You can't compete with it. At best AI can be used as a time saving tool. Now it is just sad if you are trying to pass off AI as your own, no one cares about your prompt. As soon as you are discovered your reputation is gone, you are a fraud.
The next generation is going to have to figure out how to produce value without using AI and how to compete with things that use AI or they're not going to have a great quality of life. School is meant to exercise and grow your brain, if you use a computer to do your thinking through childhood good luck in adulthood. There are already problems with some kids using AI to cheat, in a few years from now it's going to be really sad to watch the people who have continually relied on computer assisted thinking try and think on their own. They will be useless.
I feel like using AI to increase your output is purely reward-driven greed. If I was using AI to offload being creative and thoughtful I could post something every day... but as my ~3 weeks off shows, there's no way I'm doing that. I'd rather have a huge gap in posts because I simply don't have time to write, instead of producing AI swill.
A long time ago I got a message on discord, someone wanted to sell me his post. He probably changed his username and I can't find him anymore, but I found a screenshot of the conversation. He was probably creating the text with artificial intelligence. I don't know how people don't understand this. Many authors spend time here and in return they try to get votes and trust. Somebody comes in and with a 2 minute prompt, they get those votes. it's pathetic.
I agree. many of my art pieces of the past probably took hundreds of hours. Writing a let's play posts also takes time. So I would be quite pissed off if someone else get rewards for writing a prompt.
Did he ever contacted back? 🤣
I really don't remember man, it was january 5 2024. So maybe I blocked him 😂
This is the reason I don't hop on every prompt on the blockchain because when I can't relate, what exactly do I want to write? So I ensured my blog are more of things I can relate or something I experienced and that works so well for me. It makes it easy to express my thought in a beautiful way and the days I'm too busy to write I just take a break. No post, no reward and I'm cool with it.
I think there are some unwritten rules out there about etiquette things that most people follow, but some don't. I think plagiarism and using AI stuff without sourcing it are on a different level though. It's not hard to come up with your own content if you decide to put the effort into it. I've managed to do it for the past seven and a half years somehow, so it's not unattainable.
I completely agree with the analysis you share.
I find it unethical and disloyal to use mechanisms of this type, which ultimately harm those who create content based on their own effort, talent, and knowledge.
One of the things that encouraged me to enter this world of hive and explore it was when I was told that writing using AI wasn't allowed and that everything revolved around a dynamic of good energy based on positive social interactions, something that is increasingly rare on web2.
Therefore, I still trust that here we will truly manage to find a way for us all to relate in harmony but under real and genuine ethical principles.
Best regards!
I think we could sum this up by saying,
Jeremiah Custis
That's spot on - if we don't have time, don't write.
Yeah, and that's not to say that it's always about the rewards either. You can easily post and not accept rewards too even though only a small fraction of top author or most authors do.
The truth remains that the defaulters know the rules but humans would always be humans
With witty acidic comments like that you gonna be earning lots more downvotes LOL.
Can you blame me in that case? He wasn't just slightly defending/downplaying it but suggesting another bad solution.
god no, LOL im your corner. Soon as I get to Orca status Im gonna kick the shit out of some people for stupidity.
Come on man, we all know there is at least one unwritten rule around here.
I appreciate your opinion but being this aggressive towards people who mainly post about other things isn't going to do you any favors.
You are from Finland, yes?
Explain how it "isn't going to do" me any favours.
Judging someone from the lack of posting about a subject followed with a downvote.
I think we are both familiar enough with Steem and Hive to not get too upset about a fractional down vote. But to the broader point there is clearly some sort of unspoken rule - one only has to look at the posts about Ukraine to come to this conclusion.
I haven't posted about neither as I'm not too familiar or informed enough to post about them. Sure I have my opinions but on Hive I try to support users based on them, not based on where they are from or their political or humanitarian opinions. You'd be better off being loud towards users who may actively post and comment about such topics is all I'm saying.
Or just being more active yourself to spread the word rather than assuming people don't post about something because of some unspoken rules.
I am curious about how a European (with all the resources we have) could not be "familiar" or "informed" enough to post about "them". We all went through the same education system - unless you were taught something else.