So I am in the process of stepping up my focus into the growth of Hive as a whole and decided to take a look at the state of onboarding across Hive and also any referral systems. I was surprised to find it is both way more complicated and limited than I expected. In fact, none of the main dapps I looked at could provide me with a free account at present (for various reasons).
Hive.blog
Hive.blog presents me with a variety of different options for providers of Hive accounts when I click the 'signup' button. Setting aside that this is confusing for new users - I will just focus on the first three 'free' options as these are what most people will use.
So.. I looked at these options:
Inleo
I first looked at Inleo because I heard they have a referral system that I hadn't used before. Their settings page gives me a referral link that I can give to other people, but there is no mention of how the referral programme works.
At first I visited the referral link without logging out and found that the page I wash shown had a large image missing at the top - it seemed like an early version of the referral page that had since been forgotten about but not removed from sight when viewed as a logged in user. It might be better to create a custom page there that informs logged in users of more details about the referral system or just says 'log out to see this page' etc.
I logged out and revisited the referral page and was presented with three options -
- Create a Hive account using a normal approach
- Use my Twitter account as a starting point.
- Use my Google account.
In all three cases I found that I couldn't click the 'continue' button due to browser errors (in Firefox on Windows). I logged these issues as feedback in inleo.
So I gave up with Inleo at that point.
Update: I was asked to try a different browser. I tried Brave and then was able to proceed further in to the process, however, I received an error after typing in the SMS code I was sent and couldn't complete the signup process:
Error authorizing user to firebase
Maybe @khaleelkazi or @anomadsoul can comment?
Ecency
I tried to create a free account through Ecency, but after I entered my cellphone number, the system blocked me from creating one - saying:
Already created an account?! Only one account per person/IP is allowed.
I wasn't clear if the issue was from my email or my phone number though. My IP address here is dynamic, so this can't be an issue caused by my IP as suggested.
I then tried to use their paid option but it requires me to use their app and I presume to be logged in, so I don't think this is a valid option for new users.
I can understand that there is a need to prevent bots and scammers from getting lots of free accounts, it's a shame there isn't a more foolproof option to achieve that on Ecency at this time.
Any comments from @good-karma are welcome!
D.Buzz
Similar to Ecency, I tried to create a free account through D.Buzz, but after I entered my cellphone number, the system blocked me from creating one - saying:
Your phone number was already used for account creation.
Maybe these apps are sharing cellphone numbers? I don't recall creating an account previously through D.Buzz, but maybe.
Any comment from @chrisrice is welcome!
...
I then looked at PeakD too..
PeakD
PeakD uses Hiveonboard.com for free account creation.
Unfortunately, when I completed the 'Start finding your account name' lookup on the PeakD site, before being sent to Hiveonboard.com, the system failed with an error:
I used a different browser and was then able to look up a user name and be forwarded on to Hiveonboard.com.
I attempted to create the account on HiveOnboard and was then informed that the system had run out of account creation tokens, so I couldn't create an account!
Maybe @jarvie or @asgarth can comment?
...
Finally I looked at 3Speak...
3Speak
3Speak has a 'Get Hive Account' option in the main navigation when I am logged in, however, after completing the signup form to create a new account, the page just refreshed and nothing happened.
I signed out and then tried the signup process again and got exactly the same result. No emails were sent to me and no account was created.
Maybe @starkerz or @theycallmedan can comment?
Conclusion
Surprisingly, all of the signup processes are either buggy or totally broken.
Some of these issues seem to have been due to me already being a Hive user, but there was a lack of explanation in all the cases as to what was taking place and what I could do to change the situation in order to create a new account. Even when paid options were presented as an alternative, there was a lack of detailed explanation in clear language.
Several of the signup processes are just completely broken.
I wasn't able to use any kind of referral system either.
So... It's not really surprising in the slightest that we have a dwindling userbase.
Wishing you well,
Ura Soul
Read My User Guide for Hive Here
Powerful insights into the Hive blockchain are available at my website, Hive Alive.
Including the only way to track downvotes on Hive - The Untrending report
That sucks on the phone requirements. I have issues all over because of that. I have no phone (but a VOIP tab on My computer), I can't afford one, I don't want one.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either but we only have about 1,000 account credits so we need to have that in place.
I'm working to add in paid method asap for nonKYC options on Join.D.Buzz but am also working at building out other aspects of D.Buzz.
We're working consistently.
Posted via D.Buzz
Well, My attachment to all things money is pretty weak... Given My work to end the accounting for Our energy added into a system (money in all forms from trade/barter to electronic bits) such that We ALL can live as richly as We choose.
Money systems will promote psychopaths to the top of the power heap - as We have today.
The ONLY Tool (article): https://peakd.com/informationwar/@amaterasusolar/the-only-tool
I created my account years back with Hive and waited 2 weeks or so to get in :p
But afterwards, I have always just used Peakd to get account tokens and make accounts for me or others.
As I pointed out, the hiveonboarding system used by PeakD is currently non operational due to having no account creation tokens assigned to it. I am unsure whose responsibility it is to manage that.
Ye I read that :D Someone will properly fix it at somepoint.
But if you have enough RC you can claim your own account tokens via Peakd and bypass whatever Peakd uses.
But that requires you to have an account already
Yes, the issue here is onboarding new users.
I know I know, I get the spaghet :D
These are not new issues, been going on for a while now.
One would hope the people with the knowledge to fix these issues would do it. We can't build up the community if we can't grow it.
Something about this debacle seems funny and a bit sad at the same time.
This should be top priority and top visibility. If we can't onboard users easily, we lose momentum and credibility.
There is a project called Dacter that was intended to make trading of account creation tokens work, but I have never heard of anyone using it. I just prompted the authors to comment.
Interesting, never heard about it
I have to agree the onboarding process is not that easy to work with and probably the first problem a new user could face, I have use Ecency and D.buzz in the past without problems but it does limit the amount of account by phone and ip, Ecency even recognize some IPs as "low reputation" wtf imagine that for a new user, this has to be work out some how, I know Inleo have been working on this the most so probably create a thread on inleo tagging @khaleelkazi using the #feedback, he has mention how he is always monitoring that hashtag 👍
Using IP tracking is not an option I would advise, for several reasons:
I think we ideally need to develop the account 'incubation' idea a bit further and also to make the solution generic so that all Hive dapps can make use of it easily.
I guess some of this measures is to avoid bot accounts but there has to be an easier way, besides when someone new sees that there is an option to pay for an account to a "blockchain" project, meh might look fishy at first, just details that need to be work out
What a shame that all the Dapps receiving huge sums from the Dao cant even have a smooth sign up process without errors. Perhaps its best they spend less time on Twitter and sort out the sign up pages.
BTW, there is already a built in system within D.Buzz to use Profile Pages as affiliate links.
D.Buzz/@ura-soul
Is an affiliate link for you, if you click on it while signed out, and clicked Sign-up from there, you will see what I mean.
Posted via D.Buzz
Ok thanks, I'll take a look.
We got some feedback recently that our bot prevention works too well that it blocks real users sometimes. We did some improvement on that logic to make sure it is works as expected and less harsh. Unfortunately, we still ignore VPN and Tor/proxy IPs due to excessive abuse on those services and also to note those IPs likely used for registering account already.
Do give it a try again, we updated the service earlier today.
OK thanks, I'll take a look tomorrow :)
Two weeks ago when my friend tried registering, we went through a lot of stress before we could get it done
It needs to be easier
This is a major issue ... you have done well to bring this to the attention of dapp managers.
Great post, interesting to see which devs take the time to reply and attempt to resolve issues also. We've found the same problems since starting a community here and trying to onboard more users. We end up buying most of the accounts ourselves and passing the details to users, which isn't the 'best' method, but it works!
Let's hope we can overcome this issue as it's one of the biggest holdups for gaining new users. Ease of use is key in crypto, we need to make the hurdles as limited as possible (without opening everything up to abuse and bots! )
Sounds like Join.D.Buzz works as intended, but that you had used D.Buzz before for account creation.
The missing items are:
Posted via D.Buzz
Thanks for your input Chris.
I would also add that all the apps can better inform and explain users if their signup is rejected due to having used a phone or IP previously. This issue might be 'obvious' to the developers of the apps, but they definitely aren't obvious to casual users who might be beginning an onboarding process to Hive.
Ideally, they need to be not only informed of why the free accounts are limited, but also given the name of the account that was previously created against that phone/IP, plus also then pointed to paid ways to create accounts or other options.
It's a shame that this is all so complicated at present, but it can all be dramatically improved with the right text content in the right places and at the right times.
The number one thing D.Buzz and all of HIVE could benefit from are professional explanation videos.
For instances like this, text is not enough, neither is graphics.
Posted via D.Buzz
Videos can be helpful, yes, but I don't think they are a 100% replacement for text in any such situation from a UI standpoint. There are many different users, scenarios and expectations - many people want/need text.
It's also a 15 minute fix to implement text.. vs days for video.
Video with subtitles would be better.
Adding text could also overcomplicate the site, possibly leading to worse results.
As far as I know, @dbuzz is one of the top onboarders in terms of users, and our userbase is consistenly increasing, making changes should be done carefully.
Posted via D.Buzz
Do you have another phone number you can use to try onboarding? (onboard a friend)
Users are consistently joining D.Buzz to the extent we are running our of claimed account credits.
Posted via D.Buzz
I don't at the moment, no. I messaged you in Discord to discuss a solution to your lack of account credits :)
Sounds good, thank you!
Posted via D.Buzz
Sorry for the bugginess you experience on the platform.
I think Inleo still has the easiest onboardibg of them all. I've used it before and it's fun. And with no much clicks here and therr.
They have quite a lot of bugs there at present, lets hope they crush them soon.
We have run into a similar issue, someone came to one of our hive meetups wanting to find out about crypto, so we got talking and showed him the splinterlands game, he liked the idea of earning crypto for playing a game, do you think we could gift him a spellbook and by proxy a hive account. very difficult.
Hopefully splinterlands are revamping the new player experience to make this better.
I don't think there will be problems gaining access to accounts via splinterlands as they only used paid accounts - but someone will have to pay for the 'spellbook', yes.
We got there in the end, but there was three of us fiddling around for about an hour, has to be an easier way
I have the easiest way to collect $3 from anyone who has passing familiarity with crypto via Lightning.
It just needs the existing sign up systems to recognize this and build in a single call to my api and show a QR code.
I've long felt this would be easy but I just don't have the bandwidth to build a full sign up system.
My code worksm: you ask for 3 HBD and you get it 3s after a lightning invoice is paid.
We have a voucher system here https://acc.helios.surf/ however it's not 100% free as users must burn a small amount of HELIOS tokens to generate a voucher which anyone can use to redeem a new hive account. No phone or email is required to keep it as simple for users as possible.
This is one of the ways that the paid accounts work on the sign up page for Hive.
Complaining is easy, even better when you get paid for it, right?
Meanwhile you tell people who provide onboarding options that you don't want them to work on hive services. Gotta make up your mind...
No social system can thrive in an atmosphere that denies reality and that blocks valid criticism.
I did not say that I do or don't want you to work on Hive services.
I wrote in our recent private conversation that I am not clear why you need to be in the top 20 witnesses in order to fund API nodes if you already hold (and therefore receive interest on) such a large stake in HP. You said in reply that you found it hilarious that I would expect you to work for free. I then simply said that I don't expect you to work at all - by which, I only meant that I do not place any expectation on you to do anything in particular to work on Hive. It's the same way I treat everyone else, since I respect their free will and sovereignty. You seem to be perceiving me and my words/intentions here in ways that are inaccurate.
Okay. Having a large stake means I should spend thousands a month from my own pocket, in addition to my labor, to provide a service.
Or not provide it.
But then you complain about services not being provided.
shrug.
The point in the OP here was to highlight to the dApp operators that their signup processes are either totally broken or not optimal, in case they were unaware.. and to also generally highlight this issue to the community so that everyone can be better informed about why the performance of Hive is lower than expected. People have been using Hive's low performance to try to justify drastic change to Hive that I personally disagree with. It's not reasonable for them to try to pin the blame for Hive's problems on the mere fact that a rewards pool exists when its clear that new users aren't even able to signup in many cases.
My point about your finances is that you wanted me to vote for you to get you into the top 20 witness slots on the premise that you need the money in order to pay to run an API node. Since I have reservations about the implications for Hive if you have such a power position, based on your repeating tendency to use massive downvoting as a weapon to try to dominate people and get your own way - I opted not to vote for you. I then simply pointed out that you already receive large amounts of Hive anyway from your holdings.
If your intention is genuinely to grow Hive for the good of the platform then it isn't unreasonable for me to suggest that it doesn't matter that much which of Hive's rewards pools that your funding comes from, you could still use some of what Hive pays you to fund an API server.
In the context of the onboarding situation, I am not aware of the ways in which you are suggesting that you would directly improve Hive's onboarding, you are welcome to point me to your plans. Thanks.
lol. I never downvoted for personal reasons. And I never downvoted you. I do from now on though, because why not.
No, you opted to talk shit about me and run a full fledged campaign. Half your witness voting is only to keep me out of the top 20. All because curangel capped some of the whale votes you received, as it has been doing since its inception.
This is personal. Has been for you since a long time, and now I join the game.
What a nice offer. Not interested in pointing out things when you don't listen anyways. As when I repeatedly pointed out that I wasn't downvoting anything myself.
You specifically told me at the time of the downvoting during covid that you agreed with azircon's choice to downvote me to zero and also laughed about the fact that the stake being used was your own and that there was nothing i could do about it. So, you can try to deny involvement but it doesn't add up.
This was around the time that Azircon threatened physical harm to someone on chain, apparently triggering a usa cop to appear and to intervene. Azircon also tried to intimidate me and literally told me to leave the Blockchain.. and for what? for basically nothing other than producing popular content he didnt want to be visible.
I dont think there is anyone on Hive who would be particularly surprised that I vote as I do, given the situation here.
The downvoted posts were fully in curangel's scope by receiving 3-digit votes by a single whale. The project has been created to improve reward distribution, and the content of the posts doesn't matter in the decision if the downvote was justified. So yes, I did agree.
My witness is not related to curangel other than that I coded the project and set the initial scope for voting. Of course you're free to not vote for me. Campaigning with whales, especially calling me a censor for cutting your rewards, is pretty petty though. Hat off, I didn't thought you could achieve that. I didn't really care to even investigate back then, and just enjoyed my free time.
Now I'm back, and boy am I surprised to learn the whole story. And I can be petty too!