Thank's for this great information. Now we just need to know when the fork is happening and what else they will do with the remaining 99% of Hive which is being held in the Dao. Saving it for the future when the price is rapidly decreasing isn't the best solution. Perhaps a controlled burn is on the table?
They also said a vote would be required for any future airdops but are now changing that to a yes these people are being airdropped because of "mistakes." Hive is not decentralized, this is a centralized mistake and decision.
Put it to a vote!
Well those accounts were really added on the blacklist in error. They should've never been there in the first place. I think it's very good that they are now getting their funds.
What happens with those funds is completely up to the community and the SPS system. iirc there was a proposal which burned funds. Of course that is on the table.
The entire black list should have never been there. It's hard to admit ones mistake and do the right thing which is airdropping all non-steemit accounts. It just makes the arbitrary rules to receive airdrop more ridiculous.
As much as I dislike proxy.token and their supporters for holding the sockpuppets in place, they only helped endure continuing harm and weren't the cause.
Only the accounts that got us into this mess (those 3 exchanges and steemit ones) should be punished, but two of the exchanges managed to lie and cheat their ways out of any real responsibility for their deliberate and harmful act.
Lets have a vote to see if huobi and binance get airdrops....oh wait it seems another dodgy centralized decision was made.
Punished? Nobody was being punished.
Accounts were either actively participating in strengthening a Sybil attack, or they weren't. There's no middle ground there. It's yes or no. True or false. The code didn't care about politics, beliefs, nationalities. If you're to fork a chain to escape a sybil attack/hostile takeover, you cannot include the sybil attack/hostile takeover in the new chain because that would make the new chain pointless.
Since there has always been an appeal process on the table, all excluded accounts were handled fairly and professionally.
If they were to do what you're suggesting, and begin handpicking accounts based on beliefs, then there's a problem.
Or they had a stake of <1000 SP. That is where a bit of arbitrariness comes into play. That number is without any justification, and a more or less round number, which is why it was chosen. I think that this threshold shouldn't have existed, so it really was a True/False for supporting the attack with your stake.
Strengthening, not supporting. Remove the beliefs and politics since that did not play a role.
All witness votes were still in place when the chain was forked. Have a look at the Hive witness list. Those sock puppet accounts are still there. They needed to force those sock puppet accounts far down the list, right? So how would you do that? Am I missing something or is removing the stake backing those sockpuppet witness accounts the only way?
I criticized the 1000 SP threshold. I suppose there are many small accounts which voted for > 1 Sun puppets, which are not on the blacklist because they only have a small amount of Steem Power. This arbitrary threshold causes those attackers, who definitely strengthened the attack, since the do have stake, just not that much, to not end up on the blacklist. What I want to say, is that I would prefer to have either none of the non-stinc accounts on the blacklist, or all of them (that voted the Sun puppets of course)
So there's a exclusion list. A hostile takeover that needed to be weakened. It didn't need to be weakened all the way. And who wants to deal with an even longer exclusion list? This short list has already caused a stir.
I've been around for nearly four years. The narrative would have been spun into "Oh my god! Look what they did to the little guy! They hurt the little guy! Look how mean they are!" And that would have all been bullshit, but people have a fancy way of believing bullshit if it suits their twisted narrative. I've already seen some petty arguments and a lot of common sense thrown out the door by people who were on the list because of an error. Imagine all those folks whining about ten bucks.
The hive blockchain is SAFU, so this is punishment.
My main issue is who was punished and who escaped. The dials and levels were twisted and pulled to make a very specific subset of individuals who would be caught in the net. By the time the fork had been announced the damage had been done. Actually, the most damage was done by the people who initially voted for the puppet witnesses, not the idiots who kept up the stalemate.
The exchanges, Binance and Huobi,were let off the hook due to the methods decided to punish enemies of decentralization. This is because many innocent victims would be punished in the crossfire.
This tells me it is about punishment and not about protecting the blockchain. Further, I think some people are sucking up to CZ binance as we speak to get Hive listed there. Hypocrisy?
Let's just sweep this under the rug and give them an airdrop. What's the risk? In theory,they can just buy it back and attack up again.
Why are you talking about politics? That exclusion list was never about politics. You can have your beliefs, but it's not about beliefs either. There's a post above you talking about an error in the code. Some of those people felt 'punished' and thought it was because about 'beliefs', and they were wrong, and I bet some will still continue to feel like they were being punished due to beliefs, even when confronted with the facts. And a lot of that has to do with how some of you folks spin it and turn it into politics and beliefs.
There would have never been an error if the exclusion list was left to the steemit accounts originally blocked during softfork 22.2.
More accounts just had to be added. Why were those with less than 1000sp safe? Why was it maximun 2 fake witnesses? Isn't 17 required. Face it a lot of these decisions were not technical. So what does that make them? Centrally decided by people who created Hive is my best guess.
From a technical standpoint, none of these accounts needed their Hive removed, as just removing Steemit stake would have shifted the balance more than enough to get 17 proper witnesses back and make it expensive to launch another attack.
Even if technicaly difficulties remained, it could have just been held back for a few months until we could fix things.
Someone carefully selected the additional targets and made the punishment permanent for reasons that aren't related to the technical workings of the blockchain. To say there were no political elements or beliefs involved is at least equally as deceptive as saying it was mostly bssed on that.
Even with the criteria explained within the post linked within the post above, you'll still continue on with your beliefs and politics? I find that behavior to be quite peculiar.
What could be more damaging? The facts? Or an opinion that denies facts?
I was always under the impression that the community agreed to the first soft-fork to just freeze the ninja mined stakes. and one which I did support.
But now there are too many accounts which seem to have been affected. If there was a tech side to it, I would not dare to intervene as I am not a tech guy. But overall it makes me uneasy to carry on with a vindictive approach when we have already forked away and moved on. And it makes me worried for the future.
For me, just freezing out the ninja mined and stinc held stakes would have been enough, and I would have carried on hiving away.
Yes, me too. But we decided to get a little revenge on some whose actions clearly demonstrated they support centralization after.
Me too. The punishment doesn't fit the crime and too many have escaped justice. Not to mention that in civil society, the idea is reform and not punishment.
Delaying their airdrops by 3~4 months and making them apologize and agree to participate kindly would have been enough.
Thebreal issue is the vulnerability of the system. Hate the game not the players.
You really think they'd stand by their word? They've already shown they have no honour and their promises are useless
The point is to get it on record. If people feel strongs need to be attached that's fine.
Their promises to not freeze funds are on record too, and guess where those promises went
"Punishing" Huobi and Binance by removing their funds only screws over people who were already screwed over by Huobi and Binance
It also rewards the decision makers at Binance who have finds there.
This is a lazy way of thinking.
Anyway may I ask why you are downvoting my comments? You do realize when the value falls below 0 they disappear from Hive front ends.
Do you think downvoting me because you disagree with my opinion is acceptable behavior?
I'm sorry my small downvote amount is intimidating, I have downvoted myself a few times to make you feel better.
Thank you. I feel better already.
I'm also not sure where you get the idea that comments disappear, they are only collapsed
I downvote comments that I don't believe are accurate, it's my stake to do what I want with, and it helps move comments down lower.
I do not intent to spread inaccurate informations. Mostly this is my opinion which is subjective. Please point out the inaccurate content so I may better understand what part you are confused about.
These people deserve their Hive and reasonable compensations for their inflation losses and pains and sufferings.
But yeah, it's a centralized solution to an error made by a centralized decision. Just another example of the risks and dangers associated with centralized decision making.
Truthfully, they define decentralization to suit their given narrative at the time. Today it means no Justin Sun or Steemit, which is reasonable. Tomorrow, who knows? Perhaps a reward is due?
The power to move around hive in the dao without a vote in this case seems just. They assure us it won't happen again, just like last time. Just like Justin assured us.
Let's pray it won't happen again amd again and again. I have my doubts.
There will be votes btw for the remaining airdrops.
Votes are like saying no. The people who didn't get an airdrop can't even vote. Fixing the mistakes only cause more problems and raise additional concerns.