In short, I don't think the Steem community have been decentralized until now from its's start.
Old witnesses urged that the decentralization was destroyed by Justin Sun, but before Justin Sun, the Steem community was decentralized ?
Old witnesses were just one powerful group IMO.
Now with the appearance of Justin Sun, the Steem community seemed to be more decentralized.
In the current situation, the problem we face at is the confrontation between the old witnesses and Justin Sun.
So, IMO, third party needed for negotiating both parties.
The more witnesses groups are, the safer the Steem Community will be.
I hope the exchange take part in the witness group, and the witnesses in wide global area must be included in.
I wish this not wise stalemate be ended ASAP.
We have lots of things to do for further development.
Steem is far more centralised than before.
There was never one witness group. There were 20 individuals as consensus witnesses and many more as backup witness.
Now, there are only 9 individuals in TOP 20 consensus. 8 people + Justin Sun.
Tell me, how exactly is that more decentralised?
It's pathetic how people are attacking the "old" witnesses, while in reality most of the problems came from the fact that Steemit Inc (incl. Ned Scott) didn't deliver, but continuously sold their ninja-mined stake, pushing down the price.
We had and still have a situation where many of the previous witnesses had been witnesses for a long time, collecting 350 steem per day and voting each other in and keeping each other in. As they (witnesses) gained steem each day, they became more and more entrenched in their positions. Getting harder and harder to ever displace them over time. Not to mention many witnesses all voted for each other's posts and SPS proposals as well. Over the past year or two it had very much become a "good ol boys club" where they basically controlled the blockchain. And it was mostly happening due to the votes of a handful of the largest whales as well as all voting each other. It shouldn't work like that.
Exactly. It should be, that this witness are not allowed to vote another top witness. Thats will be fair, and not like the old rule that they vote each other, that nobody can come inside the top 20
Well said.
There was only one group of witness before, there are two groups of witnesses now.
The more different groups, the more decentralized.
There is no group of witnesses.
Let me repeat: there is no group of witnesses.
You might think that way, because somehow they all agreed on certain subjects, but that's only from the outside.
The witnesses are 20-50 individuals who worked together on governing the chain. Those 20-50 individuals have different world views and opinions on how things should be run. There are often discussions and disagreements on certain subjects. Pretty sure that isn't the case with Justin Sun and his sockpuppets.
Just because you disagree with the consensus that witnesses came up with, shouldn't mean that you can just call witnesses to be a group. Again, we are all individuals.
A group that mostly vote for each other, on each other's posts, and on each others SPS proposals. Not to mention the softfork. That is what he is getting at, and it's more than just his perception. It's the perception of much of the broader community.
Just because they agree on some topics, that doesn't make them a homogenous group. If they couldn't agree on anything, there wouldn't have been any changes since the launch of the chain. They still disagree on many things, and each one makes their own decision based on the information they got, which is why many changes didn't happen.
Now we have someone taking up half of the spots who doesn't know what he's doing, and trying to push changes that would break the system. Those are naturally opposed by all of the witnesses who understand steem. They can't deploy infrastructure changes either though, we're in a lock down now. Instead of preparing to launch SMT, which are basically done.
But keep cheering the "decentralization" of 1 guy taking up 10 spots, just because you can't understand people agreeing on something where you might disagree. It's so much easier for the mind to build a conspiracy theory.
I could not have said it better.
So the witnesses should have forked off Ned's stake a year ago. They were happy with the status quo watching him dump 800 000 steem every month. When Ned stated these assets belonged to stinc, no one took a fork seriously, besides Ned. The time to act was when Ned owned the stake, not when an innocent third party paid for those coins in good faith.
Now we are in a position where forking away those coins looks terrible to potential outside investors, and creating a new chain that excludes Ned's ninja stake is going to be laughed at by exchanges. And the third option, is what? Hoping Justin dumps the stake and abandons STINC? I'm not sure I trust the community to run a reliable, self sufficient front end with no steemit. Steempeak may be the cats ass, but I have seen so many Dapps come and go, I don't have faith it will last.
I understand why the Koreans are siding with Tron run Steemit, it seems like a more stable option. I don't think this ends well TBH, but I sold my steem and no longer have any skin in the game.
The biggest challenge to competition for frontends was that Steemit's was funded by the huge Steemit dev stake, that disintevized competition. Even though it was developed very slowly and little funds were spent on it, there was always the threat that more effort could be put into it if a competitor became threatening enough.
LOL. Steempeak lasted for many years and will continue to last. Running a frontend is quite easy. Just takes a bit of time and men/women-power.
I think the point is that the consensus witnesses never had the popular vote, only the high stakes votes of a few.
You can't count the current votes for this situation, because they aren't voting for anyone, just against Justin.
As for more or less decentralized, that's simply playing semantics. It's either decentralized or it's not and it never has been, because of how the current voting system works.
This needs to change for Steem to move forward in a positive direction.
Yep, you are spot on. They had a handful of the largest whale votes which was the only thing keeping them in. Which is also why they never got around to changing the witnesses voting protocols long ago like many suggested. It would have been against their financial interest to do so.
I would have to disagree with you on: You can't count the current votes for this situation, because they aren't voting for anyone, just against Justin. that statement. @goodkarma has 19,742 individual votes, that indivual accounts voting for him as a witness, he has always had a lot of indivual votes. @goodguy24 has 153 individual accounts voting for him not even close to anyone's imagination for popular vote.
@someguy123 has 11,033 popular votes and is in position 31
@respect888 has 70 popular votes and is in position 30
So your statement:You can't count the current votes for this situation, because they aren't voting for anyone, just against Justin." is totally off base. The people of steem block chain have spoken loud and clear of how they feel about Justin Sun's sock puppet witnesses. He has not even been able to get the Korean community to vote for his witnesses.
As a community we may not like what the witnesses do sometimes, but we all understand that they have the best interest of the Community behind their actions.
I stand by my statement.
I understand, we all see things a little bit differently, that is what makes and keeps the walking world interesting, and the online typing world interesting.
!ENGAGE 25
@notconvinced you have received
25 ENGAGEfrom @bashadow!View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.
Yeah, it was even said by Aggroed that he was the only top 20 witnesses that got into his position without Freedom's massive stake voting them in. Essentially one account got these witnesses in. Frankly, I'd like to see completely new witnesses enter the top 20.
I like Matt and Aggroed, but I'd like to see them focus on their game and the SE dex. I want to see completely fresh new top 20 witnesses. Not Justin's accounts and not the old batch, but people attracting a much larger collection of the community and getting in because they satisfy their demands.
agreed
Hi @slowwalker
This message pops up and prompts us to use another website.
What does that tell us, it is the same as saying to all the members that we are now on the war path.This is not the right solution.
And you'll even get a nice badge if you downvote Sunny boy.
I don't think that is a nice idea.
Very true @slowwalker, NOW we are more decentralized as before. Because As long as a small group of witness can decide about the whole Blockchain, than we are centralized, never mind the servers are on different places in the world. Its like Amazon and they server are across the globe and yes, the company itself have many offices on the world. NOW, the servers around the world belong not any more to only Amazon ( old Witness), it belongs as well to another company. Its not about decentralizes where the servers are, its about the people whos running the servers.
20 Witness can decide about the money and ownership of thousands of people at steemit. That's very dangerous and centralized.
Example: If Bitcoin runs only by 20 Server, how afraid the people will be about they money? I am sure they will be very afraid, because 20 people can decide about the whole system and billions of dollars..... Does anyone think the world will use Bitcoin than as a global payment system and freedom currency? Of course not.....
AGAIN: Its same like Visa Card. Many of us was using visa Cards in the past with crypto. One day of the other, the cards was useless, because Visa stop the use of the cards, because of they problem with another company. Never mind the server from Visa are not only at 1 city. A Small group decided to stop this service with this crypto cards. Same it is here in Blue.....
This Fight show us the weakness of our system Steemit. Not more, not less. Now its the time to change this and go further in improvement.
Thank you for your opinion, I agree with you.
That's easy. Let Justin Sun know his lies aren't welcome here at Steem, and that he didn't buy Steem when he bought Steemit Inc.
It looks very much like the only reason he is keeping his witnesses in there is to prevent his stake from being frozen again. Well that and to possibly to do a hardfork to bail out the exchanges he used to help him gain access to his stake again.
Buying and Selling is legal behavior.
Do yon confirm that Steem don't belong to Steem Inc ?
There is no Steem Inc. And if you mean Steemit Inc, of course Steem doesn't belong to it. It's a blockchain collectively owned by a community. A single person or entity does not own it. Justin didn't and can't buy us, no matter how many empty promises he makes.
I agree 100%
Thank you, my old friend.
You are always welcome
I think it is centralized now. Not decentralized.