Where the hell are you and what do you own?

in LeoFinance4 years ago

Over the last few days, engagement has been taken up a fair bit of my Hive thinking space and it has yielded some interesting results. In my opinion (and likely a few others), engagement is vital for retention and it is far more than just the number of comments one makes, receives or votes upon. Engagement has to be engaging, meaning that it has to have the effect that attracts people and encourages them to come back, time and time again.

Metrics and the beast

The other day I wrote a post that mentioned some of the most active users and grinders I know on the platform in regards to engagement and then @abh12345 backed this up with some numbers of engagement by class, which interestingly put all five of those people in the top 5 of the highest commentators in the orca range.

Look at the numbers and it is pretty shocking that 5 old dudes are grinding (not together) in comments more than most other users on the platform. The drop away is telling when going into the lower Hive Power accounts as there are many, many more dolphins than orcas and, minnows than dolphins.

Is there just not enough value?

Of course, most people are here for rewards in some way (either immediate or future payoff), but there is always going to be some level of lag between energy put in and return. Three of the 5 in that list are from 2016, the "newest" account is my brother @galenkp, from mid-2017. As far as I know, all of the 5 are a little bit longer in the tooth with @meesterboom perhaps so old, his teeth are now false. What I wonder is and have raised before several times, do young people just don't know how to grind?

Disposable potential

One aspect of this is of course that the elderly are probably more likely to have a bit of disposable income so they don't need to use what they earn, but I don't think that is the case in this group per se. However, age is likely to affect many people's ability and willingness to invest into the future, where perhaps older people have a better understanding that life without money sucks ass and the feeling of pending retirement and death as most of life is no longer in front. So, they look a little further into the economic future, one that is uncertain and one where ownership is likely to still matter.

Blockchain and cryptocurrency is about ownership, not earning potential, although it is easy to see how those things can become conflated. @nonameslefttouse has harped on for years about ownership of his artistic journey here and has visualized many aspects surrounding this area. I am no stranger to talking about ownership myself and perhaps focus more on the benefits of having financial mobility.

In my Ask the Hive post on what would make Hive better, there were a couple of core themes, number one being, more users. That is great, but how, what attracts them and keeps them here if even the people who are looking for more users aren't engaging themselves, aren't pushing their own boundaries as early adopters into a new economic model and an immature industry that has the potential to change the world at the level that affects all of us, the economy?

Building user value

I would predict that the value of whatever Hive you have in your wallet right now would be significantly higher if there were 10 million active users here than the 10,000 there are now. My reasoning for this isn't just demand for the token on exchanges, it is that with 10 million users, the developers have something to work with, an audience and a market. Once one application is able to attract a million or two, new users arrive and new applications.

It is no different to the explosive growth of the mobile application industry that didn't exist 20-odd years ago at all and was supercharged by the introduction of smartphones, infrastructure to carry the applications. The infrastructure that blockchain and crypto currency needs for user adoption is already available, what is missing is the mindset.

The application industry is an industry of end users, not owners. As a result, the vast majority of value that is driven through the systems gets funneled back to corporations and shareholders - with the corporations and financial services themselves being the largest investor class. It is a constant loop that draws value from the bottom to extract value at the top of the loop and then comes back down to the massive and growing base to see what else they can grab along the way. This is the stockmarket in general - and most people don't own stocks at all, let alone enough to be a significant income in relation to those who do own significantly.

Learn to own

The way out of this crushing loop is not to punish stockholders by taking away their wealth, it is by becoming stockholders. Unfortunately though, the current "traditional" system is so fundamentally broken and imbalanced, that it is too late. What needs to happen is a replacement of the system and one that encourages (demands?) ownership at all layers of it.

Hive offers this ownership and while imperfect and highly risky, it is a place where ordinary people are able to "get in" on the ground floor and not only have a chance of future return, but actually have some influence on the direction it travels and the outcomes of that future - making it a healthier place for those to come. While "stake is your voice" - you also have a fucking voice you can use - so use it. Be part of the conversations, be part of the engaging group of users who are looking long both on the value of the stake they hold as well as the value of the community that drives that value.

The markets are purely speculative and at this stage, not affected by the reality of projects at all. However, the community is quite a different animal and one that is driven by interaction, just like any community. Nothing is stopping Hive having Twitter, Reddit or any of the many ridiculous applications that churn money through them, but ownership of experience means that everyone's future is somewhat tied to the success of the average. One app booms and people win, one app fails and people lose - a little.

Decentralized ownership allows for an economy to flourish without building the absolutely enormous differences in values, even though there will always be a range of outcomes. While ownership is more than just having economic stake, skin in the game tends to drive a more "serious" approach to interaction, meaning that it is more engaging, not that it is all about serious topics.

Improve and replace

From my perspective, it isn't our goal to compete with the current system, it is to replace it with something that is more valuable to all participants, a system that doesn't just drive value to the top, but distributes it. It is never going to work if it is on goodwill only, it has to be through the paradigm shift where participants take the plunge and say, "It is risky, but I am going to invest into my own future."

Money. Invest money.

Exchange something that you don't own, for something that you do. Take some small amount that is possible to lose without too much pain and buy some crypto. Something, anything. This transfer might be the most important step in changing your mind that you ever make in your life as it could be the start of your real investment life, one where you take true ownership of something for the first time ever. Perhaps once you own it, you will look for ways to increase its value.

Be responsible for yourself

I get asked relatively often to be someone's mentor, but I see this as a useless endeavor as what the hell would I tell anyone that I haven't already put on the blockchain or will put on the blockchain in the future? No one is forced to read, vote, comment or follow anything I say at all, but it doesn't mean that no one won't either. It is about personal responsibility and even without stake on Hive, we all own our experience here. If you aren't willing to attract and retain users through your interactions, who do you expect to do it?

This is a decentralized platform and economy and we all have the potential to do something to make it better, even though the return might never come. Perhaps this is the problem when it comes to many people on Hive and in crypto in general, they aren't entrepreneurs with a risk seeking mindset who are willing to put in and face the consequences - it is filled with people who want to buy a better life in a broken system - always looking for an exit from crypto.

Perhaps it is too late and there is no exit.

Maybe this is the future and what you are squandering now is a position as an influencer in that future - a position as a community node that generates value for many at a local level. Maybe you have struck oil or found diamonds, but don't know what they will be worth once in the hands of many.

Maybe the risk isn't in getting into crypto, it is staying out of it.

I find it surprising that so few people are firstly on Hive and then, how few who are already here actually take advantage of the potential of it. Maybe it isn't only the industry that is immature.

Age is nothing but a number, but it does hint at experience. Actions are a better indicator.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

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Age is a number. Nothing but. Perspective is not a number, but can be influenced by age.

I had thought when I found Steem that I had made my last stand. I was in root hog or die. Until I wasn't... The good news is that Hive gave me the opportunity to shift pretty seamlessly to it. 2 weeks left until I never again look at Steem.

My perspective is different than most everyone here. If I get another 10 years I'll have lived an incredibly long life. I've only been on the platform since January 2018, but in that time I have only bought, never sold. The money I may or may not make in the next 24 hours or 10 years is really modest. My wish, my hope, is that I can make a zillion in betterment to humanity in general and the crypto sphere specifically. The dollar value of that doesn't enter in.

I have a big (ficus) tree in my yard that isn't as old as I am. Not a single tree that I know of around here that has grown much since I've been on the platform. It's all about perspective.

So you and your gang have a hopefully long time to continue your most admirable grind. I need to grind just a little quicker. Thank you for grinding along. The trend line is up.

Get grinding. There can never be too many grinding you know.

!ENGAGE 25

The good news is that Hive gave me the opportunity to shift pretty seamlessly to it.

Yep, it is fortunate.

2 weeks left until I never again look at Steem.

I screwed up and stopped and restarted my powerdown :/ 4 for me ...

My wish, my hope, is that I can make a zillion in betterment to humanity in general and the crypto sphere specifically. The dollar value of that doesn't enter in.

If more take this approach, it will all move very fast.

I know a few who have grown a fair bit the last 2 years, but they are either very active or (also) often also buying in.

In the long range view, the volatility of these early days will look like a flat line.

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

As one of the 5 grinding old dudes I can categorically say that the grinding is starting to chafe. Lol.

Laziness is rewarded in the real world, a world where being mediocre is acceptable and where people can stick their hand out and receive something. I've never lived in that world and have had to apply effort to get what I have though. It was the same here on hive.

Recently, in the posting initiative thing, I had comments saying I'd enter but I'm too lazy.

And there you have it. Modern society in a nutshell. Why expend effort when you can get something for nothing...But here, nothing returns nothing. People apply nothing, get nothing then leave to go somewhere else where applying nothing may get them something...And nothing is their reward again...Eventually they end up on Facebook's endless scroll-feed thing engaging with nothing worth engaging with, applying nothing and receiving nothing...And probably disgruntled at those who have applied effort and gained reward for it.

Anyway, I'm old...What the fuck do I know.

Just for the record...I was pleased to see that I made Orca-level, thanks for letting me know. It's been a grind, (there's the grinding reference again), but I've enjoyed my time here...I really wish others would do the same rather than talking a big game in a post or two, saying how much they love hive and hive to the moon and all of that shit, then going all flaccid and limp and resorting to applying nothing with the hope expectation of gaining something.

I should stop. I'm not in the mood to be honest considering today's events.

If money begets money, nothing begets nothing :)

It is the expectation of getting something or expecting something no matter what is delivered that gets people into issue. Producing is one thing, but producing something consumable is a different case altogether.

Chill, have some fun this evening instead. Do nothing :)

Yeah, been watching The Last Kingdom brushing up on my Viking battle-moves for the meetings I have tomorrow. Lol.

Thanks for calling me old, but also indicating I can still grind it. Good for my street-cred.

I can categorically say that the grinding is starting to chafe

I think you may need to go up a size sir!

Lol. Or get some KY.

I read your previous blog about engagement and the large effect of engagement. I think you may be onto something. Dolphins can see the light of success and smell blood in the water., so they are a hard working bunch. I also agree with engagement being one tool for increased visibility. I think that regard people could find you on trending, but the effect of finding someone on your blogpost is much more personal and even if they are a spammer, it’s hard to forget the name.
I will leave you with this picture which I loved, but so far haven’t written a post for it.
BDA6DAC3198C42F8AE6B467A7DE77744.jpeg

Dolphins can see the light of success and smell blood in the water., so they are a hard working bunch

Activity breeds habit, habit gets results. Once results get seen, everything becomes easier as one starts to look wider for what compounds. Exercising regularly will lead to a healthier diet and both combined lead to a healthier mind and better mood.

This👇

Activity breeds habit, habit gets results. Once results get seen, everything becomes easier.

...is something that’s never failed me. That in giving people more then paid for, exceeding expectations. It has been part of my “magic formula for success”
Friends think it’s my “good looks” LOL
I tell them consistently performing beyond what’s expected and doing so without whining, instead being appreciative is really the key...I am not that good looking, my wife obviously needs glasses LOL

I tell them consistently performing beyond what’s expected and doing so without whining, instead being appreciative is really the key..

Opportunity comes to those who have a track record of doing a lot with the opportunities they have.

I am not that good looking, my wife obviously needs glasses LOL

Mine too

Actually what i think is many of us prefer money over creativity and credibility , i agree with your lines as you have said most of people willing to take an exit from crypto but there is no exit

Perhaps it is too late and there is no exit.

and i have seen many of the people who still believe in blockchain in crypto world because crypto world has changed life of many people and in the future it will aswell .

Exchange something that you don't own, for something that you do. Take some small amount that is possible to lose without too much pain and buy some crypto.

its kind of 50 50 situation some will try to exit cryptoworld and some will follow your advise aswell .

Actually what i think is many of us prefer money over creativity and credibility

Yes, and then wonder why they have little of any of them.

What I wonder is and have raised before several times, do young people just don't know how to grind?

Young people know how to grind bit the problem is impatience. Impatient to build something. You said it in one of your post.

This post was really an educating one.
How do you preach the gospel of job to people without involving rewards in a developing country where poverty is the order of the day?
I remember what brought me to steemit in 2017 and what made me leave steem in 2018.. wonderful post

They can

Young people know how to grind bit the problem is impatience.

If you don't have patience, you don't know how to grind.

Seriously??

Seriously. The grind is about day in and day out consistency, doing it in the rain and sunshine - results can take years. If you are impatient, you will only ever get results of the impatient.

Lesson learnt

You put this out there very well. It is inspiring and honest. You weren't biased or closed off completely to any potential future (though, I think we are all rooting for a similar one ;P). I have to admit, my sabbatical brought a little self-conviction from this post. It was necessary to get my life more in order so I can bring more value in the future, however. I'm just really glad to be back with this community.

Cheers!

Lots of people take time off from here (I haven't - but I am not lots of people) and come back stronger and more ready, many take that time and come back weaker each time. In my experience consulting in companies, the more often someone avoids work, the higher the frequency of avoidance becomes. It is habit building.

Makes a lot of sense. :)

If we had 10million users, this would open the gates to sponsorship. Many artists on youtube get constantly sponsored and free art supplies. I'd be overjoyed if I could get quality art supplies for content :)

I understand the need for people to invest but I think many including myself are still in the skeptical phase, after Steemit and Whaleshares. I wonder for how long I'll be rewarded and then forgotten again. I have other options to spend my time, but Hive gives best value and more interactions for now. I think it will get better as a bit more time passes.

I know I keep mentioning artists, but that's what I know. I hope others give their opinions as well ^^ Writers, developers, photographers, cooks, gamers, musicians, journalists, models. Everyone has different needs to make a Hive viable to reach their audience.

If we had 10million users, this would open the gates to sponsorship.

Yes, proper patrons and they would also be able to constantly support through endless tips :)

I understand the need for people to invest but I think many including myself are still in the skeptical phase, after Steemit and Whaleshares.

Well, whaleshares was a scam from the start :D

It takes social proof for many to get over their skepticism, but that isn't the position of an investor, for as soon as there is proof, the majority of the opportunity for large gains is gone. Invest low, early and when there is high uncertainty.

I wonder for how long I'll be rewarded and then forgotten again.

This is the position an employee finds themselves in, isn't it?

Everyone has different needs to make a Hive viable to reach their audience.

Which is why wide-range ownership is so vital. If we aren't wiling to invest into ourselves and what we are interested, why would we expect anyone else to?

I understand and agree about the wide-range ownership. As self employed I'm fortunate not to worry about that employee issue regularly. Of course the trade of is we live modestly and are always careful of our spending and savings. I prefer that over the alternative.

Plus working from home allows me to constantly try additional things including Hive. :D

Of course the trade of is we live modestly and are always careful of our spending and savings. I prefer that over the alternative.

I prefer it too. There is some self-worth in not having to be completely reliant on others.

Plus working from home allows me to constantly try additional things including Hive.

:)

Sometimes I think that people would be shocked at the amount of work it has taken me to get this far on Hive and how I have worked over the years. I hope it benefits me and everyone else also, but I hope people recognize that nothing is easy and if they want a better future, they have to act better now.

I probably wouldn't be shocked, I've made over 200 (I think it's close to 300) posts in 2 years (most are quite long) and I used to be wayyy slower at painting especially when I first started blogging (3.25 years ago). So yeah ,a lot of time invested and you're wayy far ahead, so wayyy more time. Also I took a year off from blogging because of depression/ mourning and I barely did any art until recently (other than work).

I'm still slow at writing, likely slower than average people, always have been xD

Also I took a year off from blogging because of depression/ mourning and I barely did any art until recently (other than work).

Hope you are okay - has it made you a better artist?

I'm ok thank you, getting better with time.
Idk about better artist, I'd trade art to get mom back,she was only in her 40s.

How I got into that engagement list I will never know, I don't comment all that much. Speaks volumes for the rest.

Speaks volumes for the rest.

Definitely does. Perhaps everyone should up their game a bit.

engagement is not an easy thing to do in long format responses. I think thats why instagram and fb is so popular. Just open, consume and interacting is a simple like or heart. I seldom find myself responding to anything on HIVE anymore and its because Im just too damn busy with my own life.

No it isn't easy, which is why there is value in it. If it was all easy, it would be valueless - which is why 99.9% of people on SoMe don't earn shit. Ownership isn't popular, that is why there are so many employees.

I've always thought that theres value in difficult things but after being on Steem and now hive for over 4 years, I've changed my views. Its the concept of work in physics. If you start at point A and went through a whole journey just to get back to point A, technically no work has been done. But the experience isnt accounted for in this case.

While engaging is an epic amount of work, its generally only fruitful if you do on a consistent basis to create value in the journey of connecting. Otherwise we're just doing it to do it.

I cant even tell you why im responding lol. Id like to engage more on hive, but I often have difficulty in seeing the value of it unless I am sharing something with people who care about the content.

I appreciate the time you take out to reply none the less!

its generally only fruitful if you do on a consistent basis to create value in the journey of connecting. Otherwise we're just doing it to do it.

There aren't many things that are fruitful unless done consistently. I have had a lot of short-term relationships, none compare to the challenges faced nor the value of my marriage.

but I often have difficulty in seeing the value of it unless I am sharing something with people who care about the content.

Are you doing this and are you connecting with people who care about your content, are you bring them in from wherever they are and making a home for your interest areas, for their interest areas?

good analogy regarding relationships!

I dont produce much content on this platform anymore, I used to though. At that time, the world was ruled by bots and eventually it was not worth it anymore. Worth is subjective though. I am a structural engineer so my interest is to design and build. Unfortunately I am not a software developer, so its difficult to design and build on this platform.

Id like to start posting more, but not to create an audience, but to find like minded people. today is as good as any day right?

What is OLD? I hear 40 y/o people refer to themselves as old, I just smile to myself and think, just wait, you ain,t seen nothing yet.
Old is a mindset, age is a number, if you have the zest for living everyday to the fullest, the future is still exciting and worth investing in.
My age has never stopped me from learning new things, exploring new opportunities and pushing my brain to solve problems and encourage others in my age group to do the same .
With the stumble I faced during the change from steem to hive I learned some valuable lessons.
#1 was that real people make up communities and strong communities will be the success of #hive.
So thankful for all the love and support .

Its funny I knew right from the beginning that this world of crypto was going to blow my mind, as I learned from my son @ryan313, who thank goodness, pulled us along.
Talk about passion, he knows shit that takes me a week 😊 to understand.
He sends me audio discussions on all things crypto, decentralized platforms, hard assets and the mess USA is in right now.
I think we old folks are gonna be alright 🤞

I think we old folks are gonna be alright

Unless Corona gets us ;D

The number is relative - as I am guessing that a lot of the people here are 30s - once uponj a time, that was middle aged and they would have been married with children at school :)

I find it quite common these days that older people are far more curious than the younger - more willing to learn. I am glad that the community here is not made up of only apathetic young :)

Community or entitlement!
In a nutshell that is what it is and you old guys know the difference.

Us young guys only want quick returns and with as little effort as possible.
Talking to a lot of people takes a lot of effort and it is for old timers like you.
That's why you are Ocras and we are nowhere lol.

Jokes aside, ownership is the secret .
Ownership simply means that they will cherish it, protect it and grow it.
Hive offers all of these possibilities, but it takes a bit of sense to understand it.

You get back what you put in, plain and simple!

Ownership simply means that they will cherish it, protect it and grow it.

There are going to be a lot of people who think they are entitled to a future that will be sorely disappointed when they find out, the future needs to be built first. Perhaps too many think that "the young are the future" statements mean that everything will always be provided for them.

Yeah and agreed. There are so many that are blinded to the future.
But in all things there are always hope.
Illiteracy plagues our country and with the powers that be dropping the school pass mark for exams to 30% the future seems to be very dark.
What are we going to do with people that don't know 70% of their work?
At the end of the year the politicians proudly crow about 100% pass rates at schools. With 30%???

My time was surely wasted at school and I can only hope that there would be many that will keep on educating themselves in real life after school.

5 old dudes are grinding (not together

I'm so glad it's not together

I'm so old my teeth are false and made of old clackity bits of wood!

I do agree that everyone has the responsibility for their own learning and when (if) they arrive the most successful well be the ones that do so.

All this grinding is making me chafe.

!ENGAGE 25

That's that old leathery skin of yours!! ;0D

Look at that thatch!!

That's what Grouchy's balls looked like.

and when (if) they arrive the most successful well be the ones that do so.

It is no different to anywhere else in life, the active will outperform the passive.

I'm so old my teeth are false and made of old clackity bits of wood!

Wood! Fancy.

Thank you for your engagement on this post, you have recieved ENGAGE tokens.

@tarazkp, please consider posting once a twice a week from the Leofinance interface, it will help with our SEO initiative. Thoughts and thanks in advance???

Posted Using LeoFinance

Ah shit yeah. I will try to remember to, sorry!

Rock on and thanks for your continued support.

I agree, one need to engage to build up your account.

You are up there in the most engaged, has it been difficult for you to be consistent?

It has been difficult, because sometimes, I just don't have the time to do it.

Definitely can be. an issue. Some days are better than others, so on those days I try to "catch up" :)

A lot of people see commenting as hard work, and well it is at times. Some days I do not get very many comments out, and some days a lot. There is a lot of content that I only get a vote on, likewise there is a lot of content I read/see, most get votes, some do not. Then there are the ones that I comment on, they are post that provoke a comment, and I do not use provoke in a bad way here, they are post that make me think, make me wonder, make me want to just say something about what the creator had to say.

It is not easy to do, the comment thing. There was a bit of fear at the very start of my commenting on steem post. I got flagged for a real question of "how did you do that" about formatting. (it was the small sub script). It did not stop me from commenting, but it did slow my start some.

Things got much better commenting wise, both the comments being left on post, and the replies, the nice post days got put in the background and real commenting began to take off. So far on hive the commenting seems to be more real to me, not small suck up comments, but genuine ones, both long and short form.

A lot of people see commenting as hard work, and well it is at times.

Yes it is. I spend more time on comments than I do writing often enough, and I spend a lot of time writing.

they are post that provoke a comment,

This is where content matters - rarely is there short content so engaging it is worth the time engaging with - unless there is a vote on offer. Most will scroll through, maybe upvote.

It is not easy to do, the comment thing. There was a bit of fear at the very start of my commenting on steem post. I got flagged for a real question of "how did you do that" about formatting. (it was the small sub script). It did not stop me from commenting, but it did slow my start some.

Really? Now I am curious as to who :D

So far on hive the commenting seems to be more real to me, not small suck up comments, but genuine ones, both long and short form.

I agree completely, but I might also be in a bubble. In general, I have been very fortunate with the comments I get and I truly appreciate the effort people go to - which is why I try to get to most of the comments with a reply and often a vote of gratitude. I find it strange that some of the large and well earning accounts take their audience for granted.

I asked how Dan got the small font on his post. Bernie and Dan were at odds at that time, so Bernie and his house of cards (all 52 accounts) down voted my question, after Dan gave me the answer. Some time way back in September or August 2017.

I think that people, no matter the age, must learn how to grind. And to keep on doing it. I think it would help to have more engaged users. Not necessarily more. Because the beauty of the platform is in the experience. In the interaction. And scroll, like and share are not what I would personally look for. The grinders gonna grind and there is much to learn from them, if you are smart and ambitious.

I think it would help to have more engaged users. Not necessarily more.

The core user base was doing well til the split, but it is going to take some time to establish a new normal perhaps. Active users are precious. =)

Time and patience + engagement= good Hive

Genial articulo concuerdo totalmente con tu racionamiento, esperemos que la plataforma crezca para que llegue ese mercado y a la larga todos ganemos.

One great thing about stake is, if one wins, we all do :)

Pffffffft that tooth comment XD

 4 years ago  Reveal Comment

Yes, the lifting ourselves is the thing that we will struggle with for a while as we are so used to relying on others.