At what point is enough enough with these mindless auto downvotes?
I'm not the only one targeted and this really isn't about the rewards, but it does affect others who may not know any better and potential relationships with newcomers.
I feel like we need some front-ends to try and do a bit more to mitigate oblivious spam both from bot comments and bot downvotes, maybe even bot upvotes?
Point is, it's been months that some blurt accounts have been downvoting any and all comments and posts myself and a handful of other users post. Many ask about it if you're active and it brings kind of a weird feeling to the scene where they may think they're at risk of befalling the same fate at some point.
The downvotes in question are really tiny, like $0.01 or lower, but it's not just your author rewards it affects, it also affects other voters returns as well as they may vote up your comment only to realize they didn't get any curation rewards for it.
I have a few of these "auto-downvoters", one of them who decided to call it quits and abandon his community cause I asked him for many weeks to stop buying votes and he decided to "get back at me" by autodownvoting anything I and my projects post. Luckily I've received support from more users on top since then to make up for any rewards he thinks he may be taking, but again, it's not really about that. The voters may occur lower curation returns now as well.
Autovotes as you may know are not something I like as most of stakeholders who place them become quite negligent about overviewing if the authors on their autovote or the trail they're following are still on par with the requirements they looked for when they picked to support them with autovotes. So I guess you can imagine that autodownvotes may be another level of shitty.
There's of course simple solutions for these things, if they've bothered to set up all these autodownvotes with some bots, one can simply set up an auto upvoter to counter them. But then you're seen as a "self-voter" and it might make it look worse than it did before that. I guess one could delegate to an account to take care of the countering of everyone involved, I unfortunately don't have the skill to create such a counter bot.
Either way, thought I'd just make a quick shitpost checking what you think of the matter, is there a line where you feel like it's more annoying than "let people do whatever they want with their stake?" Do you feel like it'd be worse to try and counter it?
I really feel like some front-ends should have a list where comments and votes known to be automated are placed on a second tier and either not shown unless you click "show advanced settings" or in the comment sections they'd always be under the real users so they're not always in your face and you have to sift through the bots until you get to see human comments just cause they have a lower reputation.
The "blacklist" wouldn't have to be anything ultimate either, if an account "wakes" up and realizes he's in a blacklist that's not showing their votes or their comments in the "first tier", they could easily apply somehow to be taken off of the list.
Just some thoughts.
Just post more and drain all their resource credits so that they can't downvote you again. It will mean you need more resource credits, and then there can be a resource credit war on hive instead of a downvote war like the days of old.
Please take everything I said with considerable salt :D
lol I think there were days where I commented a lot so it was eating their upvote mana rather than downvote mana, kind of a win for everyone that day.
Maybe we need downvotes to really hurt resource credits? Would make them "rarer", less vindictive, and by doing a downvote, it took away a significant amount of your ability (until it recharged) to do other operations on the platform.
Or some sort of log-function for resource credits that each other downvote would cost incrementally more (approaching an infinite cost) - because in the essence that some people are targeted by them (meaninglessly) - it is nothing other than spam on the blockchain if it is being treated as a reddit downvote rather than as something to remove rewards from a pending post, thus distributing them back to everyone else on chain.
good points, there's probably some improvements that can be made in terms of bloat and RC too, such as spamming the same long comment over and over which takes space
Defend the space in our blocks! They're reserved for future users!
I'm not too worried about it, doubt technology will stop growing the space and costs required but it'd still be nice to come up with something to make blatant spam harder to do.
lol I find this very funny.
One thing I am not sure how things work with downvotes is that I might have this misconception of downvotes only cancelling out votes that were casted before them. So if someone votes after the downvote it doesn't affect them. But I am not sure about that so it might be coming from my ass.
Cancelling out the vote will take as much stake as they have + some extra. I think curating others is a better outcome rather than trying to cancel it out.
Yeah but again it's not really about the rewards, I'd rather have this cancel the downvote out so people who may naturally vote a comment/snap or post of mine wouldn't get penalized for doing so, same with others.
It doesn't just cancel the last vote, it becomes spread based on weight, i.e. if 2 people vote a post to $10, one is 20% of it, the other is 80% of it and someone downvotes it for $5, the curators both lose 50% of their pending curation rewards.
Furthermore, I've considered countering my downvotes "late" so my own curation rewards would be penalized not just from the downvote but also cause it's 1/2/3 days late in an effort to have the other curators not earn less rewards for having voted on a post/comment with malicious downvotes on.
Yeah it seems like what I talked about is a frontend issue. Peakd shows increased reward payout when you vote a downvoted post unless you refresh.
I think that's one of their things to show that votes land instantly and calculate the amount based on your hp to simulate the effect of instant rewards. While a refresh then shows what the blockchain actually calculated it to.
Yeah, that is probably it. That is why I thought hmm it seems like votes after the downvote doesn't get affected. Live and learn lol
peakd probably added this way back when things were a bit slower cause of shteemit, back then an account couldn't even cast more than 1 vote on the same block
Yeah... I don't even notice them anymore. Others might and they may wonder what's going on. Especially on Ecency, they were "in your face", with a warming that "This content got low rating by people.", referring to my comments which get downvoted by these Blurt people. I think this just got fixed today, when I reported a different bug and probably this issue became obvious too. I don't see that warning anymore on my latest comments.
I have various people I follow being dust downvoted by the same accounts downvoting you, I always wondered why but never asked since looked a trail spam downvotes, so it's blurt... I agree it comes annoying, expecially in comments where you see on every comment 8 downvotes count and you gotta manually check everytime if it's a spam trail or not... Maybe remove them from the UI if they are under a threshold...
I think setting up auto self vote to counter that is fine, you gave the explain a while ago, so the community (the smart one) knows the issue, there's not much you can really do once this user just blindly downvote every of your posts
You know... today I was thinking along these lines too. Because if there's one thing I don't want is toxicity in my little app. So, having "muted accounts" seems like a necessity at this point.
You and I spoke about downvotes not even showing in an interface. Meaning, they would happen, lower the rewards, but for the user who receives them, they would be none the wiser, as the kids say.
I suspect in the near future more and more platforms are going to completely hide these ridiculous accounts. Spam accounts will spam, upvote, downvote, to their bs, but in the shadows, where they pollute not a single screen.
It seems like the obvious evolution at this point.
Yeah I feel like there'll be a lot more community-run counter bots by then as well making sure these dumb downvotes get nullified even if it means less returns for the people running them.
Downvoting caused some misconception on that certain content, mostly on a bad note but all in all, I still read through on what's the content about if it is well written (especially the hook) and some topic that I'm interested with.
Can you believe that downvoted people (usually justified cause they attempt to leech rewards in one form or another), say that downvotes are against free speech? As you said, I'd argue I'd be more interested in the content and comments if posts get heavily downvoted, at least if it's new downvotes on authors who haven't gotten downvoted before.
This is how we find out you are moving to Blurt?
over my dead body
🤣🤣🤣🤣
For the most part, it is done for petty reasons, which regardless of how a person made their stake, isn't okay lol. I have been downvoted for simple difference of opinion -- strongly worded posts about topics or demographics, never derogatory -- and I will have people (and their bot accounts) downvote because of that. I have politely disagreed with a community creator about one of their rules, quietly left the group, only for him (and his bot accounts) to mute and downvote before I did.
I have seen you, too. I remember nearly a year ago, you were confronting someone for basically plagiarizing Pokémon.
Unfortunately it is the internet, and people will still use it as a means for control and acceptance. I can never seem to break through the niche groups because wallet is tiny, don't speak the language, "You can't sit with us 😠" I'm just trying to make $20 to feed my kids, please stop jeopardizing my income because y'all never left high school...
well can't say i fully agree there at the end, author rewards shouldn't really be seen as income, I think curation rewards are more guaranteed that way.
I do however agree that people shouldn't be downvoting for disagreements and other petty things, I don't downvote lightly personally. That user you may be referring to telling me I'm plagiarising pokemon (if that's the case I'm thinking of) has had a larger history of some suspicious activities, furthermore inciting that I'm out here to harm other hive games when I have a long history of buying tokens, assets and actively using many games I can stay focused on. Some people get really weird when their potential income/profits get put at risk and they may look for others to blame for when things go sideways, think that was the case there.
I'm not saying people can't consistently earn here and not sure why you haven't/aren't, maybe look into different communities to post in or something, not sure. My point is that you shouldn't think of author rewards as something that can stay guaranteed forever, autovotes can go away at random, supporters can unstake their hive power, random downvotes can fly for dumb reasons. We're still so small that there's not always eyes in the right places to stand up for bad activity such as bad downvotes for instance. We're still kind of allowing vote buying through delegations and stuff even though it's the one thing that takes away value from everyone. We got a lot of room for improvement.
@acidyo, I was just reading this post about the downvotes, and couldn't initially think of a realistic solution, but then I chanced upon the fact that @dustbunny appears to still be working. Wouldn't dustbunny not try and bring a comment up to the 2c threshold even from a negative starting position? Just a thought, @acidyo.
Best wishes, and I hope you're both having a brilliant weekend.
What if someone were to delegate some HP to either @hivepope or @goodguygreg (my currently-idle project accounts) and help me set up the code to counter-upvote the downvoters?
I'd be up to delegate, I'm sure @azircon could throw in some as well. It's just the coding part I can't do
I certainly can, but should we? :)
I sort of like it. It is a living proof that they are assholes.
People like @freecompliments made a big deal in public saying he is a doctor and family man. For the record I never downvoted him :)
As if doctors can’t be assholes! :)
Trust me they are, at least in US they are. That is a norm not an exception :)
And blurt people are royal assholes that has been established a long time ago :)
yeah he downvoted you for using "bad words" as if that's worse than scamming the rewards pool for years.
This one is from @meesterboom !
😀😀
lmao
On the ecency frontend we only see downvote by clicking on the heart and we've to go down to see if there's any downvote, but on peakd it visible to our eye as broken heart which sometimes leave bad impression to other users as you said some new comers......
Some sort of bot to counter the downvotes could be an option if there is a clear pattern of the person being targeted regardless of post content although this would havevto take into account genuine downvotes too, technically its abuse so could fall under hivewatchers remit.
Downvotes will always be controversial on Hive. Of course they have uses in dealing with abuse, but we shouldn't get to choose who can use them and how. Maybe the front ends could let us hide particular ones. I don't get the DVs, but I would happily hide comments by certain annoying people. Those comments would still be on the chain, but not immediately visible to people looking at my posts. We can have freedom and control.
I think creating a space where great content can flourish should be our shared aim on any platform.
sure but it's not really just that as this is a social media platform as well.
There's been some influencers over time who just cross-posted "great" content here but never bothered to engage or do something more than copy-paste their links while we showered them with rewards that are long gone. They never lifted a finger to promote hive so their presence was hidden from the outside while they were all good with the autovotes and constant trending they were getting even though no one here was interested in said content enough to engage and manually vote it.
I'm all for rewarding great content over and over, I run a curation project, but it's gotta be people who understand hive and its potential and don't just take it for granted or see it as "free money" for low effort activity while hoping others will carry the place forward.
I am constantly asked why I am getting downvoted, which shows people are paying attention to it. I agree, it's dust vote, but it counts when it comes to comments as many have little stake and can hurt their curation rewards. This leads to them not rewarding comments anymore. I'm fine with it if my comments are not upvoted, but on a bigger scale, it's not really good.
yep and it does seem like they keep adding more and more users to it..
I have not done a proper search, but it seems to me they are going after thigh rep accounts. Is it true?
I think they're just going after active users or valuable community members or people who've openly supported the need for downvotes, not sure really, probably just mad they lost hundreds of thousands of hive for blurt
Ewww, this is when they turn off the monitor in the hospital. I haven't checked it for ages, but this? 🤦♀
The down votes and trails are for sure a challenging thing. I think getting it onto the UI is probably best for making adjustments. PeakD and Ecency are usually really good about spinning up some visual changes that end up working really well!
The senseless down votes are pretty tedious and annoying, and I for sure think people avoid posts thinking they will get included.
I also think it would be really cool to move auto comments and things like that to the bottom by default so it can be sifted through easier. I muted all of the bots in the rant community hoping that it would clear up space in the dang comment sections.
@acidyo, in reality you’re right. Or downvotes should be hidden. One of my newbies got downvoted on an intro post and I haven’t covered that part yet in my class because I didn’t think it was important yet as long as they post original contents. However I understand that maybe there was a disagreement with the rewards but it doesn’t look good and maybe some front ends should hide it at the very least
Are you (of all people) starting to complain about auto-upvotes, now?
If I remember correctly, you even downvoted my shit over a disagreement.
Now that the shoe is on the other foot... uch whatever.
Wanker!
I've complained about auto upvotes in forever, hope you doing well, nice to see you still around even though you've literally not accomplished anything here or created something useful and beneficial for the community in almost a decade, sad
It's because you are too busy smelling your own farts, that you see nothing.
not my fault. I've made good friends and learned a ton. but this is not about me anyways, because I never claimed to be something I am not.
I can still show my face at steemfest, wanker
You are the only person I have ever met who Ignore some people who are barking behind you and try to achieve your own success.By creating a community, you have now created an organization for new users.That's why you're my idol and I try every post of yours first.I am also ready to give my opinion and stand and fight with you.Some people are after me too.I also invest in this platform with whatever income I have from my career and am going to try to stand on my own feet someday.I have a hope that I can create myself without being dependent on anyone.The qualification that I have the right to receive I always get inspired when I see you and I respect your work.
Downvoting a post on Hive should not be immediate. Some people haven't found their roots. I remember those days when I felt like writing was the only thing that Hive was all about. No! Newcomers should know that Hive is for them, and one group might prefer their work over another group’s.
Don't make them feel dejected or rejected. Give them a trial period of days before finally sending a bot to downvote them. Starting a new Hive account because of a downvote is not good. Talk to them. Tell them to give proof to justify their write-up or content.
An unjust law is no law at all.
Guy, you are an angel—and not one of those wolves in sheep's clothing.
Been a victim of this for a long time even tho I pleaded with who it was to stop he wasn't going stop so I left out...
But then again I wonder why some good hearts here are trying so hard to widen hive onboard as many as groom and nurture them till they stick around
And there are others who just don't care about it like they don't have feelings downvoting the hardwork of others, it really a sad thing and pls if anything can be done to curb this...will be very nice
Don't know exactly how to solve this but I do agree that it is time for a change in how reputation as well as up and downvoting is done as whole. I think it is broken and not functioning for the betterment of HIVE in any way shape or form right now.
Thanks for bringing some much needed attention to the BS.
It's very ugly that someone gets voted against without being guilty. I hope you resolve your case soon.
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yes. i agree with u.. downvotes are weird! 😉😁🤙
In my own point of view, down voting also affects the encouragement of each users by seeing those broken hearted icon. Consistency, encouragement and hard works will be useless. Down vote must in the right place and right time. ☺️
I think these downvote lists are really bad for the community.
There should be a measure against it.
I was actually targeted by you over on Steemit…
I couldn't find a single downvote on your account, so I just wasted a lot of time for no reason. Maybe you're thinking of an alt account you were farming with?
It was about 4 years ago, just before Hive started… I didn’t mean to take up so much of your time…
Well send a link cause I couldn't find any proof of it having occurred. Not that I understand the relevancy with this post where I'm clearly talking about automatic downvotes, something I clearly haven't done even if I've downvoted you there must have been a reason?
I currently have no access to my Computer… I’ve been using my Cell Phone for about 3 weeks now…