The idea behind Steemit is a great revolutionary one. The reality of Steemit isn't too shitty either. But nevertheless, there is a very big problem with this platform that no amount of technological advancement could begin to address.
You know what I speak of. All of you do. Though, it seems likely that some of you may have convinced yourselves that you don't.
Beyond the realm of Steemit, so many of us opt for willful ignorance over the acceptance of uncomfortable truths. We have all had times where our intelligence has permitted us to see through the deception before us, only to find denial on the other side.
Perhaps that's what's happening here. Maybe the reason that I have seen no one mentioning this problem, is because so many of us have chosen to remain ignorant of its existence in order to make our time on Steemit more enjoyable.
The biggest problem on Steemit is that you can never know who's real and who's fake.
No. I'm not talking about bots. We might have had some problems with automated voting and spam bots in the past, but bots have also done an excellent job of providing to the efficacy of the platform. I do not mean real or fake in a technological sense— but in a behavioural one.
In an ideal world, upvotes would be determined purely on quality and usefulness. In reality, however, we can see that your ability to network with other users on the platform is far more likely to earn you upvotes than even the highest quality posts.
This in itself isn't a bad thing. Not only can it provide people with an excellent excuse to go and make some new friends, but it is also a huge driving force behind community engagement on the platform. But it can potentially be a source of disingenuity too, and this is the problem I speak of.
There are many obvious instances of this type of behaviour out there. You have probably received more than a few comments on your posts that were in no way related to the subject matter. An ambiguous comment that could be copied and pasted onto any post without looking too out of place. It's obvious that the poster of the comment did not even read your work, yet they're brazen enough to link their profile and ask that you follow them. Chances are, they don't even want you to read their work. They just want a piece of your precious voting power.
I typically ignore such comments. But, I do appreciate their transparency. Some comments, however, you cannot be so sure about.
Take for example a 300 hundred word response on a post, that is entirely relevant to the subject matter. From reading such a comment, I can be sure that the author of the reply took the time to read my post. But, I still cannot know if they read it because they wanted to, and responded because they found it interesting and hoped to discuss it. They may just be hoping that many people see their comment so that they can earn upvotes or new followers.
This uncertainty can effect the user-experience on Steemit. There are so many people I have met on here who seem to be very lovely, very compassionate, and very friendly people. But which of those are acting according to their true character, and which of them are simply acting?
It brings into question, the legitimacy of many interactions on the platform. There are undoubtedly those on Steemit who are playing the role of whatever character will garner the most followers. They act in a way that they would not normally in order to make "friends" who will vote for their shit, and they take on a persona that they believe whales will appreciate, in the hopes of securing some regular, weighty votes in the future.
I don't know who these people are. I have my suspicions about one or two, but that's all they are— suspicions. I don't really know what they're like. I can't.
And that's the point.
As long as there is a monetary incentive to making friends — and there is a huge one on Steemit — one will never be certain if their friend is really who they seem to be, or if they are just acting as such to advance their Steemit career.
I can think of no possible way to fix this problem, but perhaps it doesn't need to be fixed. The world outside of Steemit isn't so different. Each and every second there are countless self-serving acts taking place across the Earth. Money is the real culprit. We all need to survive. We need it to so that we and our kin can live out our days as comfortably as possible.
I am now going to write a long and elaborate comment to show you I read your post, so that many people can upvote it and start following me for my insightfulness.
But also!
This. I have no illusion that not everyone on Steemit is genuine. I do know that this is true for the real world out there aswell. It's just that in the real world, people need more acting skills than just pretty words. In the end, what matters most is that you have fun on the platform and I do think that, the longer you know someone, the easier it becomes to see their true intentions.
And if no one had to worry about money... we'd have way too much time to complain and point out all that is wrong in the world! And then there would always be this little thing called power that people seem to enjoy. I'm sure that would help obscure intentions.
I have part of a head-universe where people have everything they need (more or less) in the immediate environment or easily enough accessible, and
that was pretty much exactly what I found in there XD
Haha, yeah, humans are hard to keep happy, even if they have all the money in the world!
I'm with you. I actually wrote a paragraph about it being easier to discern someone's true motivations when you can see their face, but I edited it out in the end. But, yes. It's much more difficult on here. Perhaps though, in time, it will become easier to read people through text, the longer I do it.
Could be. Practice makes perfect, or something like that :-)
This post made me think about several things.
As a rule of thumb I usually avoid following people who do posts without any images, and also people who do a lot of resteems - you do both but I make an exception because you post a lot of interesting stuff, and I like your eyes icon.
When I started using Steemit last August I made a point of getting along with people on Steemit because I've seen the comments Youtub!
So if I agree with a comment or post I upvote it, and if not I just move on to the next post. Beyond that I don't worry about whether people are fake or not - it's the internet, which is just like the rest of the world - some fake and some genuine.
PS - Is Khyra, Amanak a real place?
Well I'm honoured, and if it makes you feel any better about your decision, it's not too often that I do posts without images. It's just sometimes you cannot find the perfect image for the tone of your piece, and I'd rather leave it empty than have something out of place.
Khyra is not a real place, no. It is a major point of interest in a novel I am writing. I'm really from Scotland!
I know you post interesting stuff!
I have a fetish for images and even post one on every comment, so posts without images sort of throw me a bit
This whole post is something I'm really thinking about - On the one hand I'm a "conspiracy theorist" and would like to let rip on a pile of subjects, some a whole step further than most people are doing on Steemit, but on the other hand I can see that will lose me followers rather than gain them, and positive/inspiring content is what gains followers/votes/payouts.
So I'm putting a sock in it about things like vaccinations, fluoridation, zionists, and politics, and have just done a post about New Zealand (only good stuff).
In other words I'm doing exactly what you are talking about here...
Right, that explains it, I was searching around for Kyyra... (and I even mentioned bagpipes in my Kiwi post)
I don't know anything about Khyra but I'm sure her tits are fake.
Yes I also think Khyra's tits are fake - not sure if Michael Jackson was fake though...
Just beat it, sift. Beaaaat iiiiiitt
I just realised if I post one more comment it will be my thousandth post - and it's really important that it's epic and meaningful as it will remain on the blockchain...
Nailed it! :)
I would have gone with something more explicit but Dead Pool is not too shabby.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
This is much the same as in life. Who can be unfailingly certain?
I think I may be accidentally playing the role of whatever character will garner the least wealthy voters.
Lesson number one
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsyRcJkt2UU
It is just not something I see as a problem. If it is interesting and engaging, I simply don't care. It isn't that it is being ignored. I did at one point get offended about it... And then I got over it. If you can write a bot so well, I can't tell if it is real. More power to you.
I followed a suspicious looking comment back to the author's blog once, to discover that the entire account was automated. It was pulling posts from the internet, and cycling through one of ten or so comments on random posts to get attention back on the blog.
I expect that many don't realise that account is fully automated. There's probably a lot more of them that I haven't come across yet too.
But yeah, I'm not saying it's difficult to deal with, but it certainly does effect my overall enjoyment of the platform. Luckily, I enjoy it here a lot. So, even with the problem I mentioned, it's still fucking decent.
Yes, I hear you. Someone in SteemSpeak challenged me on hating automation for the sake of hating automation. After I challenged myself, I couldn't come up with a reason it is a problem. :) But I do understand that it bothers some.
I don't mind the bots too much. But, we have seen that they can be used as weapons, or as tools of abuse. But, what cannot be twisted into a weapon these days?
Well, IMO it stops being interesting and engaging when people are afraid to talk about their real ideas/beliefs and that stifles free exchange of ideas. We don't want people "censoring" themselves, and being superficially nice is kind of just that, which defeats the very purpose of this platform. It might not look like a big problem right now, but it sure as hell is going to be one when it's user base increases, as is always the case when there is monetary incentive, and that might be the "deciding factor" for this site's succes
.
I've seen threads on the "hot" section that have literally all comments on the lines of "great post" ,"nice post " ,"resteemed and upvoted " , "please follow" etc. It can be a big turn off for potential users in the future
I do agree with that being a problem. To me that is a different issue. Thank you for bringing it up.
New user. I'm a bit turned off by seeing "resteem this" or "please follow" pictures at the end of posts, especially when they can be so big. If I like what I see, I'll do those things, no need to beg.
As far as censoring, I am guilty of that. It's hard to be open. If I can remain engaged in this platform I definitely want to use it as a way to work through that (hence the name). Results, rewards are not going to matter to me (as long as I can help it). If we can build a culture of openness, genuineness then the most important kinds of content will be rewarded without everyone trying so hard.
I am real....not a bot
This is my favourite comment on this post - on a post without images, and in a sea of comments without images, your comment stands out like a beacon!
You should have read the entire post before commenting. This doesn't really make sense...
LOL
I think it doesn't matter. Like you said, life is that way. And you make your choice on who to follow, and who to reward. I think on average, good content will win. My 2 cents ☺
The other sibling of the STEEMIT GORILLA in the room is STEEMIT CENSORSHIP of FAIR USE NEWS reporting!
The story THEY CENSORED
Democrat operative David Brock’s chat shows NSA surveillance used to identify and disable online Trump supporters
Posted on May 31, 2017 by Dr. Eowyn | 28 Comments
David Brock is a Clinton loyalist, apparatchik for the Democrat Party as founder of Media Matters, and the former boyfriend of Comet Ping Pong owner James Alefantis who, though a “mere” pizza restaurateur, was named by GQ magazine as 49th among the 50 most powerful people in Washington, D.C.
https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2017/05/31/democrat-operative-david-brocks-chat-shows-nsa-surveillance-used-to-identify-and-disable-online-trump-supporters/
There are disingenuous people on this platform, that's par for the course. Everyone's motivation comes from a different place. The people that demand follows and upvotes for saying "nice post" come to the fore in my mind.
Ignore those that refuse to engage and are simply here to panhandle.
Do I have to understand people to love them ? Shall I be happier if I understand the situation ? Love what it is even if you don't understand it.
ps : don't forget to upvote my answer.
I'm all about the love. But, I have an overactive mind that seeks to understand human intentions. That can be a difficult task when I'm logged into Steemit.
And.. Lol. You can have it for that.
What you speak of is Communism and wherever it had been tried in any society on this planet, it has failed. When everything you need is in your immediate environment, do you ever ask where, who, and what effort was required to put it there? It would NOT alleviate any issues that you mentioned above because we, as people, are greedy. It's not like people are going to stop hoarding material wealth just because they already have enough to survive on.
It is better to know the source of people's intention (which is money) and assuming/anticipating their actions accordingly than pretend everything is good and well and get a nasty surprise at the end.
I'm confused. I said nothing about Communism, nor did I describe it, as far as I can see.
I think it is important to note the italics I used when writing the word "need." I wrote need in italics intentionally, so as to differentiate between necessity and luxury.
Anything we need is in nature. Anything that has to be put there is not something we need, or there would have been no one to put it there in the first place.
I don't think we are inherently greedy. I believe that greed is born through the illusion of scarcity. If everyone knew there was enough to go around, I wouldn't be so sure that they'd still be greedy. Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Well that's my point. People horde material wealth because they believe that it's every man for themself, and that there isn't enough to go around. So no, I wouldn't expect someone to part with their shit under those circumstances.
This is kinda why I wrote this. Are you saying that you just assume everyone who interacts with you on Steemit is just doing so for potential future monetary gain?
I think we're just going to argue without reaching a mutual agreement because of our inherently opposite view of human nature. This is always an issue when discussing ideas which is encompassing and vague in scope. You have your valid points and if I came off as condescending, I apologize.
I think it is important to note the italics I used when writing the word "need." I wrote need in italics intentionally, so as to differentiate between necessity and luxury.
Anything we need is in nature. Anything that has to be put there is not something we need, or there would have been no one to put it there in the first place.
Anything you need is in nature. This is true. However, I'll pick foods for my concrete example. Foods are a by product of human effort. You need foods in this modern day but would you go out into a forest 100 miles away from your house to gather berries? Both necessity AND luxury today require effort which comes from someone somewhere. You cannot magically summon foods equally for everyone and all will be happy. Work needs to be done.
I'm confused. I said nothing about Communism, nor did I describe it, as far as I can see.
You did not mention Communism but the idea that everyone has every basic needs satisfied disregarding how much effort one contributes is essentially Communism.
I don't think we are inherently greedy. I believe that greed is born through the illusion of scarcity. If everyone knew there was enough to go around, I wouldn't be so sure that they'd still be greedy. Sounds like an interesting experiment.
Which is why I mentioned Communism because the idea has been and is still experimented. The end result is almost always the same. Given power, almost everyone will eventually become greedy. It is not the illusion of scarcity for the corrupted government officials. It is the unquenchable thirst for power and wealth that drives them. There are multiple cases where people who acknowledge material scarcity and are still willing to give them up, being homeless, beggar, poor. But it will always be the one with power who wants to stay in power to fuck shit up.
This is kinda why I wrote this. Are you saying that you just assume everyone who interacts with you on Steemit is just doing so for potential future monetary gain?
Almost everyone. Others are interacting with me because they see value in my post and want to exchange ideas, even conflicting ones.
This comment just kind of comes out of nowhere, IMO. Communism? Communism is a type of government. OP is talking about culture, particularly concerns of building a culture of fakes. Sharing and openness and genuineness are not immediately equated as evil because some of the Communist ideas might mirror them.
Frankly, all this calling everything socialism or communism as a buzz word to disagree with other's ideas is getting old.
Please let this die because if communism is a buzzword in 2017, then I must be using Internet Explorer.
OP said people without scarcity mentality will not compete with each other because their needs are satisfied. I said that wasn't the case for the last 100 years because communism attempted to achieve the same goal and it was not able to. It's not name-calling but a direct example to support my statement ffs.
Sharing and openness and genuineness are not evil as long as people don't fake them for the sake of earning Steem. That is what being discussed. My point is that even with all the Steem people hold in their bags, they will keep doing whatever benefits their pocket best. You cannot expect people to stop being fake when it brings them money.
Frankly, all this talk could be avoided if Steemit took away all forms of reward distribution for 3 days and just took the money from all the whales and divide them evenly among all users. Just for 3 days, that would be an interesting experiment to see.
You know what, I completely missed the big, bold paragraph at the end of the article. Your reference to communism makes a bit more sense now.
It's cool as long as we can argue a bit and still keep it civilized. I like these bantering much more than other stuff.
My sentiments exactly.
It's not a problem if you remain truthful to yourself. You will find out who they are and what they are about, after all. Regards.
OK, i resteemed and upvoted, but trust me, that isn't just to please you ;)
I've had the same exact thoughts for a while but i admittedly suck at writing well structured articles, so thank you for putting my ideas to words
Lol. Well thank you for that. And it is something I have been wanting to write about for a while. I don't know why it took me this long. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is thinking this though.
It is not for everybody but steemfest and other such meet ups can be a fine way of sorting out some of the fake'r people. Apart from that you are right in that some people will comment and such like in the hopes of getting votes out of it. It is also as you say, like life I have met a lot of self serving c*ntos in life who would quite literally stab you in the back whilst laughing at your joke
Even at Steemfest though, people could still be playing at nice. I'm not saying I couldn't still enjoy myself, but it's like there's a little itch sometimes, ya know? I don't get it often, and it's probably an intuition thing.. But, I do wonder what Steemit would be like for me if I never had doubts about anyone's intentions.
That includes my own sometimes too!
You gotta trust that itch. I have exact same thing sometimes then I put it down to silly paranoia then later find out I was right! Then again sometimes I am wrong! But when you are right you know it ,it feels like!
Same thing with me. I doubt myself often, but far more often than not, I turn out to have been right. I think my subconscious mind has deduction skills that my conscious mind is too slow to keep up with. Because I never know why I think what I think. I just know I think it. This is the source of the doubt, but I think you're right. I should trust it more often.
I think the "subconscious" mind is actually the more rational part of your brain, attempting to gain your attention, while your consciousness mind wants to avoid that doubting, since it's usually linked with anxiety and you just want to stay positive/happy. Like a little conflict going on between the two different kinds of thought processes, fighting to get your attention
It's either that or steemit literally has managed to assemble all the nicest, kindest people from across the world.
What are the odds
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I actually went to chat in order to talk with you and then just before clicking on your name I thought to check and see if you'd written a post first. This could have been titled "Who's wearing a mask?" Though "Who is not wearing a mask?" would be a much shorter list. We have been trained since childhood to wear them. By everyone who was in a position of authority above us, including our parents, even though many of them didn't realize this is what they were doing. The more 'civilized' we have become, the more masks we wear. When we were young we were taught manners and to be polite, most recently being politically correct has become the ideal of what makes one civilized.
I think the one thing you don't take into account in this article is that a lot of people have no idea that they're being disingenuine. They don't spend time examining themselves and their motivations, most of the things they believe in are based on a brainwashing so subtle and pervasive they think it comes from within. It makes me think of the scene about the mirror in the Neverending story:
Engywook: Next is the Magic Mirror Gate. Atreyu has to face his true self.
Falcor: So what? That won't be too hard for him.
Engywook: Oh, that's what everyone thinks! But kind people find out that they are cruel. Brave men discover that they are really cowards! Confronted by their true selves, most men run away screaming!
I used to think about these things a lot, and the more I looked, really looked, the more disheartening it became as I realized most people wear masks a large majority of the time. Worse than that, many don't seem to know it, or they don't face it. They are not honest with themselves which makes it impossible for them to be truly honest in any context.
A kind of depression settled over me at the height of this time period, until I realized a few things. The first was that their journey is not mine. Whether they lie to themselves or just to others, whatever it is 'they' do, is not my concern. Only what I do truly matters, because mine is the only mind, heart, soul that I can truly know one hundred percent. I can know others very well, over ninety percent maybe even as much as ninety nine percent (maybe), but never a hundred. Which led to other understandings such as the things I determine about another, since I can never know them one hundred percent, means that I can't be one hundred percent accurate in my determinations. In which case I am simply judging them, and without total knowledge that judgment is flawed. That might not have stopped me from doing it completely, but it did make me aware that I could be wrong and generally I will toss the judgment away once I remember this, again, and again. Another part of human nature, we can have brilliant realizations and yet not live up to them all of the time. One of the truest sayings there is "We are all, every one of us, imperfect."
Certainly there is a division between those who are self-aware and those who are not. Those who examine themselves and take personal responsibility for everything that they do, and those that spend their time judging what others do and blaming everyone and everything else for their actions, their lots in life.
Which brings me to where I am now. The people I, almost without exception, choose to get close to are those in that first category. And they are flawed, just as I am, but they know they are and they work to better themselves. I'm not sure I can ask anything more of someone on this plane. And really the only one I should be asking more of is myself anyway.
You are right though, about the way this is set up as far as the monetary incentive. Most certainly it encourages people to reach out to others who might benefit them in some way. This is the way I view it: New people might take a look at my followers list, the pay out on my posts, not a large but a decent amount of sp, and decide to pursue me because of it.Some like you said, are obvious as they say "Great post, please follow me", other, more savvy individuals, take time to read and say 'the right things'. And....so fucking what? Really. In fact I see it exactly the opposite way as you do--they're giving me a chance to lend them a hand. Just because they might be working under a 'what's in it for me' mentality, doesn't mean I can't work under a "what can I do for you brother" mentality. And ultimately you have no idea of the affect you will have on someone. How you might inspire them. And you may not ever know if you truly have, but do you have to know? Again it goes back to only being able to know ourselves completely and the reasons that we do things.
On the other side of it, if I go to a post of someone who can benefit me, I've afforded them a chance to lend me a hand. Now I'm not going to jump into a post about things that are in complete opposition to my own set of beliefs and pretend I agree with them in order to gain favor, but yes there are those who will do that. Trying to constantly determine if that's the case is futile and exhausting, for one, and also it's their bad, not yours. If they come under false pretenses and you help them out because they're convincing, do you really think that this falls on you somehow? No. Be true to thine ownself...Scott..., it will help you tremendously if you stop worrying about whether others are doing the same.
Maybe, one day, the majority of people on earth will be the kind with "the what can I do for you" mentality, the kind that examine their own hearts and minds and don't sit in judgment of others. Maybe we will get to that cashless place where every need is met and we all spend our time creating, learning, and having empathy for everyone around us. Maybe it could happen here. Or maybe once you've reached that place of enlightenment here then when this body dies you no longer have to repeat this place, you instead graduate to a plane where this IS the way people are. A place where there is no more wars and no more greed and no more vies for power. Because those that are there are beyond such things.
The only thing I can say for certain at this time is that if it is possible for it to happen here, as a whole we are still pretty far from it. So for now I look at this way-what we can do is sow seeds for future generations. We can leave behind words like these for others to read and maybe help them on their own journey.
You win. Period. This post just might go down in history of Steemit as the post with the longest comments.
Joking aside, I like how you actually provide a solution to the problem while acknowledging it will be impossible to solve (too tiring to keep track, to judge, to condemn). Good work on your part.
If it were me, I'll just say fuck it, society is trash. It uses me and I'll take everything I can from it until I die. Only things that matter to me are the people that are dear and the moments I get to spend with them.
I know, I wrote an entire post inside this post ;) No one could accuse you of being dishonest ;) I get where you're coming from, there is a lot of reasons to feel the way you do about society as a whole. Lately my husband has come to a place where he feels that when we're taking our last breaths, the only things that will truly matter are the people we loved and the places we saw. So in the meantime grab any adventure that comes our way, do what we can to enjoy this ride. I initially joined steemit as an outlet for the stories and novels I've written, and if I could make some money doing things that I love, that I was doing for free anyway, awesome. I've met some really fascinating, endearing, and great people from all around the globe, ( @son-of-satire being one of the dearest among them) I found out I love photography- capturing moments in time (paricularly nature in all of its glory), and whether it goes under or grows and makes us all millionaires, I'm good. I certainly haven't wasted my time.
Thank you for being you. I already joined the dark side but I do enjoy small moments I have with my family. Best of luck in your future endeavor.
NICE POST @son-of-satire
Hahahha. I do love a bit of irony.
Seeing how Steemit was created as a platform for a community to build and communicate on, it only seems logical that there would have to be community members with bad intentions.
It's inevitable that even Steemit, one day after its big boom, will be controlled entirely third-party by someone with more Steem than the other users combined.
Bottom line, nowhere is safe from fakes, so don't expect they'll think you're genuine either.
I absolutely agree, but we can do things to help build genuineness in our culture. I don't think OP wants to eliminate the fake-ness or even thinks its possible to do so. I think this article is more for people who are just kind of like, "whatever, it's going to happen." and for people who may be on the verge of being plastic and need a little nudge in the right direction.
TLDR: hey, kids, lets be REAL real with each other.
I think that the point of many people posting comments is interactions rather than just grabbing a few more followers. After all there is no point in having followers that are not interested in my posts and won't read and up vote them. Building a quality follower base is more important than the absolute numbers.
So it is still about money, it's just thinking long term..?
It is not just about money. I think that money is a consequence of being read. I do not think you will be that successful if you write for money, you should get money for what you write instead.
It’s like in the real world man. You never know, you shouldn’t trust just like that, you shouldn’t be afraid to trust. That’s how it works for me at least. When the person never disagrees on anything, or only says he likes it, it’s untrustworthy to me. I seek the exact opposite + those who agrees but add a thing or two of their own :).
I just signed up today and this is one of the first things I noticed. I can't think of any technical corrections that will help curb the issue, but as a user curated platform users can certainly make a difference. As a culture we can value genuineness and reward it where we see it.
Sometimes I do not read the post, but upvoted it. I will stop to a posting and leave comment to show that I passing by to their post or I have read their post. :)
I never actually thought of Steemit as a career o_O
Other than that and I've noticed it already being mentioned in the comments a few times, it sounds a bit like real life to me :) I don't think the problem there is restricted to monetary incentive, attention seems to do just fine as well, if some of the other websites I've been haunting are anything to go by.
Please I need a banner. Can you helpme design one?
Check out my most recent post if you would like one for free.
You mean upvote you or what?
No. If you look at it you will understand.
I sometimes check the users other comments if I have my doubts. But I usually check out every person who has bothered to comment on my posts. Even if it's a generic "nice". In the end I follow people that offer some interest to me and there aren't that many.
I comment very briefly too if I just don't have anything smart to say or add to a topic. Showing some support is still good.
I don't think it's a problem. We have the "mute" button for extreme cases.