Why is it wrong to downvote arts and entertainment simply because you don't like it?
Because then you're taking away an opportunity for that content creator to improve.
What am I referring to when I say arts and entertainment?
Nearly all content you'll stumble into as a consumer while browsing Hive. From that picture of a duck to the blog post about a pandemic. The crypto personality. The artist. The musician. The writer regardless of what they're writing about. All of these things exist to entertain those who take an interest. The Hive posts. Development updates. All of these things have the potential to lure in eyes and captivate an audience. Everything
All of it.
I've been involved in this industry for more years than I care to admit.
I've been a writer since the day I learned how to make a letter 'A' and an artist since long before that.
Over the years, the more I did the things I enjoyed, the better I got. That's something we all have in common, regardless of what we're doing.
I have not always pursued these interests.
I don't care to share my successes and failures from another life. As far as this name and life here goes, I am a 'virtual nobody' who started at the bottom.
That's everyone in this industry though. No matter how 'big' a name becomes, they all started with nothing and nobody.
Some find success. More struggle until they eventually give up.
Over the years and because of the internet, we've seen a huge rise in independent artists, creators, developers, personalities, writers, etc.
Much like the established creators earning through salaries, contracts, sales; the independent types also seek to monetize their work.
Their most recent production might not be the most successful in their history but often earns far more than their first.
When you compare a creator's recent work with their first, in most cases you'll see a night and day difference.
Developers can relate to this. Once you make money, some of that money goes right back into creating: more, and better.
Some of the biggest names ever started out in this independent online world. Have a look at people like Post Malone and Justin Bieber. Started out with low quality videos, low quality mics, low quality everything. The talent was there. Over time people liked it more and more. The quality gradually increased. Those two guys exploded.
Your favorite crypto personality finally got a green screen. Ever notice how they always make sure to point it out, and how proud they are?
Have a look at a game streamers in-house studio. Crappy microphone, boring chair, flag on the wall in the background for the first video. Years later they have all the best stuff and seventeen shelves full of cool looking trinkets in the background. Now it's an in-house set with massive lights and everything.
I know the printer I'd like to purchase costs several thousand dollars and will be obsolete the moment I unpack it and plug it in.
A photographer or videographer starts with a phone and now has a drone.
And of course, the more money these independents put into their presentation, the better the platform looks.
But it takes time.
More fail in this world than succeed.
While that's all happening, there are more people in between, yet to discover if they've failed or succeeded. Some are happy at the bottom, thinking they're doing great, moving up. More are satisfied to always be somewhere in the middle. Others are shooting for the stars.
What makes success confusing in this world is the fact there is no such thing as, The Top.
The first sense of success is often diminished by the second. You'll see it happening if you look hard enough. A creator or online personality early on is excitedly announcing how happy they were with a previous effort that received 1000 views.
Time goes by. They're now receiving one million views consistently and the creator does not even mention it.
Looking back at the early days of Splinterlands. All the hype and early success stories have been replaced with confidence. These games are part of this arts and entertainment world as well and follow the same path, with no end in sight.
Much like how a content creator wants millions of consumers, a platform like PeakD wants millions of users. A goal is set to have many, then once it is achieved a new goal is set to have many more.
Of course in this world, the consumer is always the majority. One game, many players; one song, many listeners; one article, many readers; one woman farted, many laughed.
What defines success?
It's hard to say.
But it's easy to see.
People tend to gravitate more towards what they like. The creator has no control over whether or not people will enjoy the product. Any time something does exceptionally well, it is always a surprise.
After working for many years, Post Malone did not expect White Iverson to receive one million views within one month.
Where would he be today if somebody came along and said, "That's too much," while magically wiping some measure of success away?
Imagine what would have happened to the music industry if those people who were burning records while claiming the sound was coming from the devil actually got their way.
When was the last time you went to a book burning festival?
I realize these are outrageous comparisons but if you added up the measure of success that has been or could be downvoted over the years, you might find some rather alarming statistics now and into the future.
Then combine that with the constant demand for the quality of content to improve, while now knowing what it takes to see that improvement over time.
A feeling of accomplishment and money is required to see things steadily improve.
I understand.
Some prefer to use exploits in order to earn rewards on this platform. I'm not writing about them. Sure signs of abuse should not be tolerated, in my opinion, and the downvote, when used responsibly, is the tool for the job. Much like how upvotes serve a purpose and when used responsibly become the perfect tool to do their job.
As stated previously: The creator has no control.
Any post that is currently trending. Not one of those creators knew back when they started here their work would be where it is today.
Even with the flaws in design, everyone is still on the same playing field with equal opportunity. One could remove or introduce new flaws tomorrow. One could make it perfect. We'd still end up with the same results. Some do better than others.
Honest independent artists, creators, developers, personalities, writers, etc. This group does not need to be held back, restricted, or punished due to flaws they did not design and things they have no control over.
For centuries, people have created content. For centuries, people have consumed that content.
Why is it wrong to downvote arts and entertainment simply because you don't like it?
For centuries, if someone didn't like something, they left it alone. I can't seem to think of a time when it made me angry a Youtuber got a million views. I don't recall ever being offended if an author sold a million copies. If an article made the front page of a newspaper, I didn't rip that page off and tear it up simply because I wanted to read the comics. Bieber's music annoys me, so I don't buy it.
Why does this have to be so hard...
Like; not like. Agree; disagree. It's the same thing. Do folks not like what they agree with? Do folks disagree with what they like?
Things become incredibly confusing when we start talking about, "Reward disagreement."
Since there's no official definition or guidelines in place to eliminate disputes, this is the part of the post where I lightheartedly throw up my hands and wonder: Why did I even write this?
I disagree with rewards when I see spam and reward farms. I disagree with rewards when I see a plagiarist or word spinner attempting to pull the wool over our eyes. I disagree with rewards when an art fraud attempts to dupe people into thinking they're talented. I disagree with the use of paid votes. I disagree with excessive self voting with intent to dump. Probably a few more things but I don't feel like complaining today.
What do you disagree with?
To Conclude:
I'm personally impressed with the fact downvotes, in majority of cases, are not being abused. Downvote abuse was one of the biggest concerns coming out of the minds of the harshest critics when the free downvotes were being introduced.
We're expected to upvote responsibly. I believe the same expectations should be applied to downvotes since one cannot effectively weaponize an upvote.
Recently I wrote a post that had created a bit of a stir; some controversy.
I didn't really get a chance to explain my reasoning behind why I think the way I do. This is only my opinion.
Some things I said were twisted out of context and at the same time I failed to do a good job of making my points clear, like usual.
When I pointed out my concerns, I was thinking of the others who've been impacted by what I'd personally consider to be irresponsible curation involving downvotes, not myself.
I wasn't attempting to create a division. There will always be people who agree and others who disagree though so that reaction can be considered normal. I believe the conversation is a necessary one and hope someday there will be more peace, understanding. Whether it's an individual member or the platform as a whole, I wish to see success celebrated.
In the future I shall refrain from putting on a show, when I have a concern. Not everything needs to be a spectacle. That's a fact I've struggled with my entire life. I even tried to warn everyone with my pathetic first post.
I knew this would happen...
So now I'll apologize. Officially and publicly. If I hurt any feelings out there just know that was not my intention and I'm sorry, if I did.
I didn't come here to be an asshole but I know I can be an asshole, sometimes.
At times it's better to look the other way; especially when making a scene is your forte.
Live, learn, and have a nice day.
Disagreement on rewards... as I was saying only recently on another post, this is just too much of a grey area to really be used as a valid reason for downvoting and will only cause contention.
Now slinking off to see if I can find your post where you were an accidental a-hole...
I agree. I've seen that excuse causing more problems than not. A valid reason seems logical, then go from there. Some will say you're not given a reason for an upvote. That's a pointless argument. People know what it means.
I agree with you... I was away from Steemit for a long time maybe almost two years because of my job. When I returned just recently, I started with Hive. I posted my re-intro post after 3 years yesterday... and a lot of big-time users upvoted and it reached around 104 Hives .
My re- intro post also contained kind of a tutorial/hints on a portrait I did 2 years ago on how to draw using colored pencil and it was intended for beginners or newbies on arts at Hive. The community onchainart hinted that any old post could be posted in this community, even images included, but (!)it must be explained in different words and source should be given.
I gave my Steemit source and it was downvoted by two famous downvoters (users) you know. I mean, I am just a small fish artist trying to set foot on the Hive blockchain. One downvoter is famous for his offer of "liquifying" rewards to Hive and paid in 7 days... he earns 1% commission... I do not know what they want from me, I have 59 rep score and have an HP of 300 ... Btw, the reward on my intro-post of 104 Hive became 79 Hives as of now.
I am depressed on the system of downvoting and those who do it, why can´t they just ignore the post if they do not like the art? ... I´ve been seeing lots of arts that are not worth their rewards and here I am, just a small fish stripped-off of something.
Yes, probably decided it was "too well rewarded." I don't think it's anything we're going to be able to change. Even if we officially removed it as a downvote option, some will still do it and just claim another reason. The best we can probably do is start to try and make it socially unacceptable.
BuT mY DOwnVotiNG is AN ArT!!!
That said if I don't like the art I simply don't vote one way or another which is how it should be. Downvotes are reserved for abuse, attacking and revenge. No need to attack crappy art I don't appreciate.
I don't play Splinterlands, so therefore I don't downvote those posts when people open a pack. It's not my thing but they're excited and having fun, and that's all that matters. One of them could turn into the biggest Splinterlands personality, if you let them, and you should.
The arts cover more than just, artwork. That's photography as well and even the written word. Seems every time I say 'art' people think I'm talking about paintings.
Good point. I don't think people should downvote stuff simply because it isn't their thing.
This was my favourite reason for being downvoted recently (You jumped in on that at one point but never downvoted).
As I mentioned before most people aren't downvoting because of the reward pool. There is plenty of real obvious abuse to downvote if you are actually worried about the reward pool.
It's not often they'll strip your products off the shelf because the sales were too high. Usually they'll want to put more and keep it full.
I remember that conversation. And look, we can argue one day, get along the next. That's how a lot of folks are in life. The internet makes everything a spectacle, everyone's putting a show, on a blockchain nobody wants to be wrong, people want to fight with fists that don't hurt then feel like winners. In comments I tend to be more, me. It's my posts that get outta hand sometimes. I'll just stick to the entertainment now. Still up for a good debate though if you're ever down for it. I do like talking to folks and try my best to listen as well.
And you're right about what you said here about downvotes. I almost feel like editing one line out of the post now. Whatever, I'll leave it.
One way or another we definitely need more attention here, even if it is an Internet spectacle. For better or worse, it usually comes with drama.
In general, I find people who can't argue less intelligent - I'm not talking about morons who just shout. So, I'd rather chat with those who disagree and have logic behind the argument. My feelings don't hurt when I'm wrong, if anything my opinions change and adapt and I end up feeling humble, etc. It's an important feeling to have sometimes.
I don't like to shy away from any debate or argument. There are posts that are written for it, also replies. I think you do a good balance between debate and entertainment and that is how everyone should be. We have an audience made up of individuals, we do best to make sure they are all satisfied every so often.
I've put way too much thought into downvotes. They suck. It's way easier just to move on and try to get more upvotes. But I'm more like you, I'll focus on what is wrong or what annoys me to try and change it even though I know it is much more profitable to write more posts in the meantime.
When I'm applying those natural tendencies to be entertaining into a serious concern, though the point is made, it won't reach enough people and confuse others. This post, I made sure to remove most of the entertainment. One fart joke. I thought it was hilarious. You'll notice the language is clean, except for the asshole part, but that's talking about me.
I don't know if this post will make a difference. The way it starts out, I assume it will be judged and not clicked or read since folks might assume I'm repeating myself, but really I was adding to things I didn't get a chance to detail, since my posts can already be long as it is. Nobody wants a novel. It would be great if people asked questions.
And about debates. One thing that really bugs me is when people resort to explaining how you're "arguing wrong" and flip the conversation into personality flaws or presentation discrepancies. Had that happen not so long ago. If I had taken the bait I'd probably still be there talking in circles. Sometimes it's best to walk away and that's something I've been working on. I don't need the last word.
Being entertaining while giving a message is tough. The best I can personally hope for is getting some feedback from different people.
If a few of the people reading your post understand your argument, it could make a difference. You mentioned reward disagreement being a problem, but then you went on to define what is acceptable and what isn't. I basically agree with everything you added, we may be forgetting a few cases.
I'll accept when people point out hypocrisy or logic flaws in my arguments. I think the professional terms of what you mentioned are ad hominems and incoherency. Both are actually worth addressing. I try not to take the bait (I worked in customer service long enough to get experience), but call out BS when it's presented. Walking away is really tough, but then again the last word is a good one to have. Just keep in mind, it's 'your' last word you should be concerned about, not 'the' last word.
You sure know how to scare the shit out of people, now don't you?
Bieber, quality, increasing ???
It was this sentence, a bit futher on;
'Bieber's music annoys me, so I don't buy it.'
that set my mind at ease and kept me from unfollowing and downvoting you. lol.
You don't need to like something to recognize success! That's exactly why I used Bieber as an example! LOL! More folks make it clear they don't like him than anyone else, yet he has more fans than anyone else. The haters don't matter. He's still incredibly successful. If the haters mattered, nobody would get anywhere! Isn't that something.
Ugh. And it wouldn't it suck if people were downvoting because of one tiny detail they didn't like? There's something to think about. This place is lucky most folks, miraculously, act rationally.
'That's exactly why I used Bieber as an example!'
Understood that man, don't worry.
Nonames a real Belieber!?; no way, hahaha
'This place is lucky most folks, miraculously, act rationally'
Let's hope (and beware) it stays that way. Think the few who don't (yet), we can live with and/or we will be able to "overcome".
Those exclamation points aren't anger, it was excitement; happiness! Joy!
I used them intentionally to help prove my point, but I didn't think it would actually work. When it comes to those minor details, it would be a tragedy if misinterpretation also led to downvotes. I could be happy but people are downvoting anger. Not cool. Better to ask questions and use the comment section than to jump to conclusions.
It’s ok to occasionally put on a show. Sometimes what it shows is that one actually cares. If more people would care, we would see a vastly increased average output level.
Yeah. There's almost too much to say though. I've written over 5500 words on this topic, various ways. I could write 5000 more words easily and still be sitting here watching people get slammeed with unnecessary downvotes. It gets to a point where caring makes one feel like nobody else cares, because you care too much.
just wanted to thank you for taking the hit of free downvotes for all of us.
but your shows are fun. when you have an ability to put on a show, why just file a complaint.
also i think i skipped that post where people did not understand what were you trying to say. i need to check what i missed.
That wasn't my intention but the world works in mysterious ways, so yeah, I assume now my actions put a stop to it, provided I keep posting. It's kind of funny actually. Of course now when I share my work outside like the last two posts, Hive just looks bad, but that's no fault of mine. Responsible downvotes are important, I gave reasons why today, and there's no need to be a bully. I tried to explain that one but it was twisted out of context. Most people got it though. I still probably could have done a better job on that post, but what I said had proven to be true. Maybe I was a bit of an ass but usually one has to be an ass to me first for that to happen.
yes i did skip a post, and i read it now. i take myself as an average person, and it looked pretty obvious what were you writing about. but again, maybe i am standing on the "wrong" side of it, and not seeing the picture someone else is seeing.
i got myself reading 2 big arguments on hive today, so maybe i am in that kind of mood, maybe i should go look for some pretty pictures :D
I thought it was fine. This post was actually part of that post but I had chopped it down then added new bits to each. People will see all sides of something though. Would be great if they'd ask questions. Apply any tone to anything I write and watch how it changes dramatically. Sometimes a writer will take heat for a tone that didn't exist. That's life.
I think downvote should be kept aside for plagiarised posts. Other than that, people should learn to look away from anything else. That's my opinion.
Thanks. I'm hoping to hear more opinions as well. I'd really like to hear what everyone thinks. I think this community owes it to itself to be honest about this.
People seriously are misusing the down vote features a lot. They are meant for plaglairsm and spamming content not because you don't like the genre of that particular post.
Thanks for you thoughts on this.
Hello @nonameslefttouse, I'm also an artist but one who's currently being heavily downvoted for God Knows why???
The whale downvoting me mercilessly blocked me for asking why and later says through a friend that it's because I'm on a autovote and earn up to $40 a day. It's been going on for months now and doesn't seem like it's gonna stop anytime soon. A friend requested I talked to you about jus maybe you could help me understand what to do about it. You can check my blog to view the whale and his actions. Even blacklisted accounts don't get as much downvotes. Thank you. I've searched for you on discord but had no luck.
Did you organize a deal to receive the autovote?
Not at all. I don't even know who the person is. But I've been trying to reach out to the person for it's removal. I actually got more votes without the auto.
Shouldn't have to tell them to stop. Some curators act like promoters, pushing work they feel needs to be seen up higher so more see it. They get paid for it. It's legit and no different than being approached to have your work placed in someone's establishment. I don't understand why this is happening to you.
How often do you normally post in a day?
Before the autovote, I posted up to 4 times because sometimes my works don't show up at curator's faces. When I noticed it was an auto and because of his downvote, I posted thrice- twice (because the auto doesn't come in every time I post). When he started his heavy downvote, I kept my post to twice and once daily like I learnt he requested. But still I'm getting downvoted sometimes to zero like my posts worth's nothing.
I'm requesting for a removal of the auto cos he's been downvoting all the posts with votes from the autovote and probably think "my posts won't get any vote" like he has mentioned before. I honestly didn't need the auto to get rewards from some notable whales.
they threw downvote again. These will make me crazy
I was already crazy!
I think they want to drive me crazy
I probably should’ve just said ‘wallets.’