I am not against polyamory, it's done by consensus. I have a problem with the fact that we, women, have to change ourselves just to keep a cheater. the irony, duh.
The problem is you want monogamy but you also want a cheater. They are choices you make. You are choosing to change your self to stay with a cheater. You could choose to not stay with a cheater if you wanted. Try to find someone that isn't a cheater.
I know you would hate to think it but most people want monogamy.
I know a lot of people don't like it when I say it but a lot has to do with K selected vs R selected behavior.
I think you misunderstand me. I was saying I dont judge people who practice polyamory. its kinda different from cheating. Cheating is not done by consensus. Polyamory on the other hand.
Oh, I don't judge people for it. They can do what they want imo.
The whole "its a social construct" thing is used as moral jusitfacation for why its ok to do things the person saying it disagrees with. im not saying you are doing that. but the people blaming things on social constructs are, you can tell when you ask them to elaborate on the statements they make about the things they do. Its all mental gymnastics imo.
You said "women, have to change ourselves just to keep a cheater" so I thought you were talking about cheaters.
There's a difference between thinking monogamy is a social construct and thinking cheating is the right thing to do. Most polyamorous people think it should be open and honest, rather than the dishonesty created by cheating.
to call monogamy a lie counts as anti-monogamy correct? if you say it is a social construct and a lie is that not the same as saying that it is wrong?
I will answer the k vs r in a sec. sorry my response is taking so long. been on mabi a bit.
Sure, but thinking monogamy is wrong is not the same as thinking cheating is right. Cheating is dishonest, lying and sneaking behind someone's back. Being anti-monogamy means you're open and honest that you won't be monogamous, so you wouldn't cheat because there's no expectation of not sleeping with other people.
I may be too tired to write coherent sentences... :/
I can agree with anti monogamy doesn't = cheating.
I also think if you believe in anti-monogamy that you cant believe that cheating is a real thing because it would also be a social construct if monogamy is a social construct. So there for the only wrong doing would be the guilt or the lies that come from trying to make monogamy work by people that don't believe in it.
so I don't think someone can be anti-monogamy and anti-cheating at the same time. must choose one reality not 2 that oppose each other.
I also think if you believe in anti-monogamy that you cant believe that cheating is a real thing because it would also be a social construct if monogamy is a social construct.
Cheating is being dishonest with your partner. Social construct or not, most can agree it's wrong to be dishonest to a romantic partner. Even monogamous people who have been cheated on often report that the sex itself isn't what bothered them, it was the lies and deceit.
So when you're anti-monogomy and anti-cheating you're really anti-monogomy and anti-dishonesty. Which I would argue is the feelings of most polyamorous people. In fact, extreme honesty is very important for it to work! Furthermore, polyamorous people make different agreements and can still cheat by breaking those agreements. For instance, hypothetically a couple could agree to an open relationship with the requirement that condoms always be used with other partners. If one partner then has unprotected sex they have cheated, because they broke the terms of their agreement.
Not necessarily. Sometimes not saying something is the best for your partner, thus is being honest with yourself. You argue against monogamy in favor of freedom, yet then you try to argue that I have to be dishonest with myself to lock myself into a jail having to tell another person everything I am doing and thinking. Hopefully you see the logical inconsistency in your stance. It depends on your perspective and goals. For example, you might wish for your wife to remain happy and productive rearing her (your) kids and be free of stress. You might also be out there fulfilling your evolutionary strategy at the same time impregnating some other females. It depends. But can you be sure you can accomplish it. Each person will have to weigh their options and realistic abilities.
What concerns me is a blog trying to shame everyone into being a swinger. Not everyone needs to have the same strategy and perspective in life.
It seems a non-sequitor promulgated here is that is okay to fall into a life of shared jail of addictive decadence for as long as both partners tell each other everything and convert both of themselves into addicts together. I don't personally find that to be optimum solution to anything. But to each his own.
so if you cheat on your significant other and tell them honestly about it even tho they don't like the fact that your doing it, its ok and not cheating because you where honest about it? can you honestly and openly cheat on someone?
It's an agreement you reach beforehand and you negotiate the rules so everyone is comfortable. If your partner agrees to it but doesn't like it then she is actually being dishonest with you, and do you really want a relationship with someone who is dishonest with you?
a lot has to do with environment, things can sometimes change from r to k depending on situation of environment. r and k often mix, it usually isn't mutual tho, k wants monogamy and to slowly rais a kid to be another k where r just wants to bang and make babies. r does not care about the raising of the offspring like k does. a lot has to do with how you were raised too. if you are raised by a k family chances are you will strive for the same. r grows up in single familyhomes where momma is popin out babies with mutipule people in a life time so r does not have the ability to become a k even if it wants to, all r knows is r behavior. r will strive to get k because they want the stability but the second another k comes around r is swept to the side because k knows r is not able to stay monogamous and that is not what k is looking for. its kind of like the intro to idiocracy. 8D the stupid breed offten while the smart take their time.
No, but Im talking about a situation where there is a monogamous couple and one person decides after reading a post about how monogamy is a social construct that they will tell the other parson in the relationship their monogamy is a lie and its like chains that hold you down in life and that they are going to have sex with someone else and the other person doesn't like it, after the asshole does it they tell the other and drama happens for a week then cools down then repeat. I have watched a couple friends openly cheat on their wifes and the wifes hate it but the couple never seems to break up, just fight daily. because they are honest about it, is it still cheating?
It seems like you're stuck on the specifics of the word "dishonesty." You're right, the person in your example is being honest... and he's being emotionally abusive, and he's cheating. Relationships are an agreement and she has not agreed to an open relationship, so he is violating the rules of their agreement. That is called cheating.
Realistically, all relationships are societal constructs. The problem is that society has come to expect monogamy as a sort of "default" rather than making it an open negotiation. So because the unspoken rules of dating in our society state monogamy, having sex with another person is cheating those unspoken rules. One person can not unilaterally change the terms of an agreement however, so it's still cheating to declare new terms and act under those without the other person's agreement.
Ethical non-monogamy (aka polyamory) is about being open and honest when starting a relationship as well as throughout. Under this paradigm you discuss the terms of the relationship before entering into a relationship, and continue to do so during the relationship. It's about agreeing and sticking to the rules of said agreement, and renegotiating them and coming to a new agreement if the rules no longer suit the participants.
We do outlaw multiple party marriages. Stupid. If you want multiple partners by all means go for it, but, I can barely deal with the wife most of the time and dating wasn't much better.
I am not against polyamory, it's done by consensus. I have a problem with the fact that we, women, have to change ourselves just to keep a cheater. the irony, duh.
The problem is you want monogamy but you also want a cheater. They are choices you make. You are choosing to change your self to stay with a cheater. You could choose to not stay with a cheater if you wanted. Try to find someone that isn't a cheater.
I know you would hate to think it but most people want monogamy.
I know a lot of people don't like it when I say it but a lot has to do with K selected vs R selected behavior.
What are K selected and R selected behavior?
I think you misunderstand me. I was saying I dont judge people who practice polyamory. its kinda different from cheating. Cheating is not done by consensus. Polyamory on the other hand.
Oh, I don't judge people for it. They can do what they want imo.
The whole "its a social construct" thing is used as moral jusitfacation for why its ok to do things the person saying it disagrees with. im not saying you are doing that. but the people blaming things on social constructs are, you can tell when you ask them to elaborate on the statements they make about the things they do. Its all mental gymnastics imo.
You said "women, have to change ourselves just to keep a cheater" so I thought you were talking about cheaters.
There's a difference between thinking monogamy is a social construct and thinking cheating is the right thing to do. Most polyamorous people think it should be open and honest, rather than the dishonesty created by cheating.
trying to talk in this mess is hard, I made a new post with my response so we can talk there and it wont be so difficult.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@skeptic/talking-with-telos-about-cheating-and-monogamy
talk to u soon! xD
to call monogamy a lie counts as anti-monogamy correct? if you say it is a social construct and a lie is that not the same as saying that it is wrong?
I will answer the k vs r in a sec. sorry my response is taking so long. been on mabi a bit.
Sure, but thinking monogamy is wrong is not the same as thinking cheating is right. Cheating is dishonest, lying and sneaking behind someone's back. Being anti-monogamy means you're open and honest that you won't be monogamous, so you wouldn't cheat because there's no expectation of not sleeping with other people.
I may be too tired to write coherent sentences... :/
I can agree with anti monogamy doesn't = cheating.
I also think if you believe in anti-monogamy that you cant believe that cheating is a real thing because it would also be a social construct if monogamy is a social construct. So there for the only wrong doing would be the guilt or the lies that come from trying to make monogamy work by people that don't believe in it.
so I don't think someone can be anti-monogamy and anti-cheating at the same time. must choose one reality not 2 that oppose each other.
Cheating is being dishonest with your partner. Social construct or not, most can agree it's wrong to be dishonest to a romantic partner. Even monogamous people who have been cheated on often report that the sex itself isn't what bothered them, it was the lies and deceit.
So when you're anti-monogomy and anti-cheating you're really anti-monogomy and anti-dishonesty. Which I would argue is the feelings of most polyamorous people. In fact, extreme honesty is very important for it to work! Furthermore, polyamorous people make different agreements and can still cheat by breaking those agreements. For instance, hypothetically a couple could agree to an open relationship with the requirement that condoms always be used with other partners. If one partner then has unprotected sex they have cheated, because they broke the terms of their agreement.
Not necessarily. Sometimes not saying something is the best for your partner, thus is being honest with yourself. You argue against monogamy in favor of freedom, yet then you try to argue that I have to be dishonest with myself to lock myself into a jail having to tell another person everything I am doing and thinking. Hopefully you see the logical inconsistency in your stance. It depends on your perspective and goals. For example, you might wish for your wife to remain happy and productive rearing her (your) kids and be free of stress. You might also be out there fulfilling your evolutionary strategy at the same time impregnating some other females. It depends. But can you be sure you can accomplish it. Each person will have to weigh their options and realistic abilities.
What concerns me is a blog trying to shame everyone into being a swinger. Not everyone needs to have the same strategy and perspective in life.
It seems a non-sequitor promulgated here is that is okay to fall into a life of shared jail of addictive decadence for as long as both partners tell each other everything and convert both of themselves into addicts together. I don't personally find that to be optimum solution to anything. But to each his own.
8D
Have a great night!
so if you cheat on your significant other and tell them honestly about it even tho they don't like the fact that your doing it, its ok and not cheating because you where honest about it? can you honestly and openly cheat on someone?
It's an agreement you reach beforehand and you negotiate the rules so everyone is comfortable. If your partner agrees to it but doesn't like it then she is actually being dishonest with you, and do you really want a relationship with someone who is dishonest with you?
I replied to you in another comment about this. You won't see it on your Replies.
a lot has to do with environment, things can sometimes change from r to k depending on situation of environment. r and k often mix, it usually isn't mutual tho, k wants monogamy and to slowly rais a kid to be another k where r just wants to bang and make babies. r does not care about the raising of the offspring like k does. a lot has to do with how you were raised too. if you are raised by a k family chances are you will strive for the same. r grows up in single familyhomes where momma is popin out babies with mutipule people in a life time so r does not have the ability to become a k even if it wants to, all r knows is r behavior. r will strive to get k because they want the stability but the second another k comes around r is swept to the side because k knows r is not able to stay monogamous and that is not what k is looking for. its kind of like the intro to idiocracy. 8D the stupid breed offten while the smart take their time.
That would explain why I have experimented with both R and K strategies myself. I had both influences in my childhood.
No, but Im talking about a situation where there is a monogamous couple and one person decides after reading a post about how monogamy is a social construct that they will tell the other parson in the relationship their monogamy is a lie and its like chains that hold you down in life and that they are going to have sex with someone else and the other person doesn't like it, after the asshole does it they tell the other and drama happens for a week then cools down then repeat. I have watched a couple friends openly cheat on their wifes and the wifes hate it but the couple never seems to break up, just fight daily. because they are honest about it, is it still cheating?
It seems like you're stuck on the specifics of the word "dishonesty." You're right, the person in your example is being honest... and he's being emotionally abusive, and he's cheating. Relationships are an agreement and she has not agreed to an open relationship, so he is violating the rules of their agreement. That is called cheating.
Realistically, all relationships are societal constructs. The problem is that society has come to expect monogamy as a sort of "default" rather than making it an open negotiation. So because the unspoken rules of dating in our society state monogamy, having sex with another person is cheating those unspoken rules. One person can not unilaterally change the terms of an agreement however, so it's still cheating to declare new terms and act under those without the other person's agreement.
Ethical non-monogamy (aka polyamory) is about being open and honest when starting a relationship as well as throughout. Under this paradigm you discuss the terms of the relationship before entering into a relationship, and continue to do so during the relationship. It's about agreeing and sticking to the rules of said agreement, and renegotiating them and coming to a new agreement if the rules no longer suit the participants.
Also, your friends are assholes. :)
We do outlaw multiple party marriages. Stupid. If you want multiple partners by all means go for it, but, I can barely deal with the wife most of the time and dating wasn't much better.
lol! your comment gave me a huge smile! 8D
Lol paying alimony and child support to multiple women.