I do, but since the tribes have arrived that seems to have gone to shit. Is there any hope, or are we set for content tagged like this:
Yep, believe me or not, but those were the tags I saw yesterday relating to a post about......
Steemmonsters / Splinterlands
I wonder if the creator was sad they couldn't also add 'spt', 'steemace', and 'battle', which would perhaps be more appropriate for the Post.
Four out of those 5 tags are fairly legit though, and the creator may even have a solid case to use 'steemleo' as they were also discussing 'investing' in the Orbs you can buy with DEC within the game.
The thing is though, none of the above tags describe the actual content of the post.
Is that an issue for you?
If this account found an interface that allowed more tags (there are some), would they choose to tag the other tribes that had no specific content focus over tags trying to describe what their content was about?
Maybe no-one cares about this and I'm just being a grump.
The 'I've invested in this tribe so I can tag this tribe and steemleo' Post
Is starting to piss me off also.
I'm staked in 9 tribes now and so at least I have my Posts sorted for the next week and a half......
Using Tags in Comments
Seen that one? It's pretty cool. The first tag of the main comment (Post) will seemingly always be included in the comment, but some of the others are missing at times.
If you use a bunch of tags in a comment and someone upvotes with an account that holds stake relating to those tags, you'll get lots more votes.
Not that anyone is upvoting comments much anymore.
Personally, if I see this 'tag fishing' and the tags don't relate to the content, it's a no vote from me.
OK I think I've finished moaning. Don't share this one on Twitter.
Glad to be back!
Asher
And now I've come to the point where I enter the tags and risk being a total hypocrite. Oh well, I guess nopal4me, noleo4me, nomarlians4me, noneoxian4me, nosports4me, no spt, no battle, and no game today. Taking my busy vote though.
Selling your tags are the new bidbots.
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#mytagisnotforsale :)
There is a json_metadata field included with comment operations on the blockchain which can contain arbitrary data. Ideally the information about the tribes in which a post can be upvoted would be added as a new property there and not by bogarting the existing tags feature (which is also stored in the json_metadata field btw).
The issue is that if a new, custom property was used, then it would only be possible to publish posts that can accept payouts in SE tokens through UIs that support this new feature. So by using tags it's possible to post through any front-end and have the post be eligible for SE token rewards without those front-ends needing to do anything to support it.
FWIW my original design called for the use of a new json_metadata property and not to use tags, but it was implemented using tags initially just because they were easier to use for testing (before there was nitrous or any of that), and it just stayed that way.
Ultimately though, I think front-ends can come up with a lot better ways to group and organize content than the existing tags feature, so maybe the fact that tribes are messing with the use of the tags will encourage some front-ends to start experimenting with other mechanisms.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this Matt.
The ease of implementation with the tags has certainly meant the tribes and tokens have become very popular, but it does sound like a tweak to the json_metadata and the front ends might be a better solution further down the road.
You point out one with 5 tags, noticed one yesterday with 8 tags that were all token related and none about the content.
I've struggled with this concept. We are powering up #palnet and #neoxian tokens and want to further reward the PIFC community, but that means entries now we need to waste 2 tags. They are both general content tags, but to have 2 of 5 eaten up on just earning those tokens kind of sucks.
Not sure that the current system behind the token market is helping Steem as a whole. In time 90% of these tokens will have 0 value anyways so time will likely fix some of the issue, but until then I'd love to see a solution.
yabapmatt posted a reply with the original proposed solution, but that would mean a lot less movement with the tribes - but less tag spamming for 'visibility'.
https://steeditor.app offers lots of tags, but it is only an editor.
The tags you mention are not content specific so i would expect those to appear on many who have powered up their relevant stake. 8 tags just for tokens may seem like few in coming months, it's getting a little out of control though.
I'm sure something will actually happen, otherwise this will get completely out of control. I'm curious to see how many new tokens get issued over the next year...kind of crazy already. Can you picture if we go into a bull market what will happen? New tokens will pop up like crazy.
Yes i was thinking today about how a bull market could effect our SCOT tokenization. Secretly hoping that SMT will arrive just before the bull as i think they could drive the price of STEEM better. Not certain though, will just keep going and see what happens.
Oh the promise of SMTs has been dangled in front of us for so long. Know it's supposed to be next on the list...lets see when it happen. When it was first talked it was a big fat juicy carrot...now it's just been hanging there for to long. Now feel like that carrot has become covered in mold barely enough to motivate anyone other then the desperate.
I've been downvoting extreme tag abuse a little lately and don't mind ramping up that game some more. You definetely won't get my upvote if you spam tags. I assume it will become dangerous to spam tags if hf21 arrives and there are free downvotes.
Better to focus on decent content in one community and earn 100s of tokens that get dust from 7 or 8 communities and waste people's time. Posters like these aren't making any friends.
So yes, there is hope, one thing I propose for SPS if it happens is make a tag filter so we can hide these spammers from our searches for relevant content.
Posted using Partiko Android
Hopefully, although I hope the community accounts get a reasonable amount of work done here too.
Agreed, although many don't seem to understand this.
I suspect we'll be told to mute these people. Bugger, I could be doing this across 10 accounts or more :)
hehehe I looked back and knew instantly it was my post ;)
The thing is what I find with tags....if you write about everyday stuff, there is hardly a tag that describes it all except for the #life tag, but reality is...that is so broad that nobody cares really about it. Also when I am searching for tags I come to the conclusion that I actually never search on tags, only when it is something extremely specific, like the #beos one I was looking for back then.
So yes..if there is a specific topic (steemmonsters could have surely done the trick in this one) it will sure contribute on finding it, but when on everyday stuff, I decided to use everyday tags...which in this case I indeed found the steemleo tag legit because there is some finance in there....
I agree with you on that the tags should totally not be mis-used, and that is a reward-rape on this and it deserves a flag...but especially the broad boards...yeah...what is the content then really about
Its.....a new challenge!
No-one else did though ya doofus! 😂😂😂
It is new challenge, and like others have said, if you are a member of those no specific content tribes, then why not use the tags to make use of your staked tokens - you didn't abuse tags, they just didn't help with what the post would describe.
#beos is a good example, I also clicked through my own tag the other week to find out what was going on :)
Anyway, thanks for being my example, carry on as you are I guess!
Exactly..the tags work for a specific hunt, i find the roadtosteemfest one also a good example on that you are really looking for something, or in contest or so, but for general things...nobody scrolls through the travel tag since half of the world sets themselves in a plane these weeks. #doofus might be an excellent one though!
hehehe I dont mind admitting that I am your example, rather put it out in the open right!
https://steemit.com/created/doofus
:D :D :D
As they say in Show Business, any publicity is good publicity!
hahahahahha it turns out that doofus is all of a sudden a direct link to #failinghashtag !hahahahahahah
Shit that is my male alter ego
Well, not even publicity..More the fact that it dont like to do secretative about it. No rewardpool rape intentionally going on here, and I absolutely dont mind to clear that out in the open before Im the #tokenwhore :P
Since it's so out of control, I've been downvoting. And since my account has many different staked tokens, these abusers stand to lose more than they bargained for; and that's their problem.
The brute force approach may teach a few people a lesson. 10 free downvotes a day and rising for me, no wonder I've not filled up many jars this week.
I'm trying to charge up now but I did see some basic family photos being passed off as "creative" in 'creativecoin'. I don't see why people have to be so
fuckinglazy.That is a tag I am unlikely to provide any content for, but one that I might like to curate.
Thieves they are!
I'm building up stake, on a hunch. The 'art' tag was always near the top of steemit. I just hope these folks learn the business side of things and realize they only shoot themselves in the foot if they take instead of stake.
Right.
Well I have just bought a few and will be introducing my 4356th account all staked up tomorrow :)
I'm shocked to see so many dump, knowing if they would have staked, they could have doubled up.
And in a year those same people will be whining about not being able to earn.
I thought the problem of people leaving out the categorization tags would be solved by posting through one of the SCOT-tribes, which allow you to use 10 tags. The first 5 are being picked up by SteemIt and alternative interfaces, so it would be perfect to use the 5 first tags to categorize your content, and use the last 5 tags to add the tribes of your choice. At least, one would be able to reach his targeted audience with his post, right?!
Unfortunately, after doing a couple of experiments myself by posting through palnet, and asking around about the other sites, I found out that the sites mess up the order of your tags. As a result, what I thought could be a solution isn't one, so I went back to using 5 tags and posting through busy.org. At least, they give me that upvote :0)
I didn't know this and that sounds like a good plan.
Oh, bummer.
Same as me re:busy, but many post way more than once - in that case though, the topic should be more specific and they should be able to get away with 5 - riiiight :)
absolutely agree. After all, 'busy' is only for the vote, right?! 😉😂
Like I replied to the other comment: I have been told that the SCOt sites don't mes with the tags anymore - still didn't have a chance to try it out, tho
I have never used tags to search content as from the start I found them far too poor as there was so much miscategorized
crapstuff.Not sure what the solution is as I would still want to be able to keep my posts fronting in the right places as well as the obvious tokens that come with it.
I am going to start being stricter post HF with it.
Perhaps one day they will increase the usefulness of the actual search feature in the upper right by giving it more advance options. Most seem so stuck in just using tags they might not even know they can search for by “relevance” or “date.” Which is still a little to constricting and not the best.
yep, I think most have turned to google for their search results now :D
yabapmatt's reply details the original solution, not as easy to get the tribes and tokens flowing it seems :)
Maybe they should change eligibility from tags to token staking?
If I have pal staked, all my posts should be pal eligible?
Then we can worry about it less.
Let their abuse police police the tag abuse.
Could be an option. A bit like having SP vested for RCs to do stuff on Steem, The need for some SP and some local coin to post though could seem like a double barrier and we might lose some quality content creators who could easily earn the token if they could post in the tribe.
Use the tag once, or twice, and if no coins, no post in that tribe?
Since the sky is the limit, any number of rules could be put in place to control the scotbot.
I agree tags need to be relevant to the content.
This is what people with half a brain will do, but..... :)
I saw one today:
A reasonable message, the post zero'd, and I'm pretty confident maarnio has a brain and wont use the tag tomorrow.
That hits his steem, too?
How much sp does np4u have?
I'm undecided about separating the two.
Is that you voting for him, or a troll selfvoting/cj'ing?
The STEEM is safe, just not the STEM. They have enough to wipe out any post I'm guessing, as do @sportsmod, @nopal4u, @noleo4u.
Separating would mean your (STEEM) self-vote wasn't wasted if the above happened.
Yes I vote for him and my alt triggered because of his tag usage - it's the first day he's used this tag though and so I will let him off :)
Ah, it's a bot.
I'd probably favor separating them, as that would require a lot more time to vote each one individually.
It would cut down on the cross tribe abuse, imo.
Remember when content was more than about just crapping something out to get as many upvotes (now across multiple tribes and “tokens”) as you possibly could?
I think I do.. but sometimes I wonder 😜
The tags are insane and there has to be a better was to select what tribes you want your content to show up on, as that is my understanding of the purpose of using them.
It’s hilarious that the one you used as an example didn’t even include anything about the content itself lol... I mean who cares what the point is about... just give me muh tokens!!
All snark aside, I love tribes and what it could mean for Steem... but the UI aftermath is a bit unpleasant currently. But hey, there is a lot of trial and error when experimenting with new things. 🙂
I almost remember those days. Was that pre HF 20? It's been so long.
Back when STEEM was the only thing you could crap for? Yes, there were still people doing plenty of craps a day.
Yeah, if 5 is the limit then you are literally throwing tokens away not tagging for them.
I'm enjoying the tribes, although the abuse in some is really doing my nut in.
There is definitely abuse, but I think there are plenty of legitimate uses as well.
I tag a lot of stuff with spt, palnet, and steemleo because it's about investment yields in splinterlands and I'm a member of the PAL community.
Ideally, tribes would have a different identification mechanism than tags. Maybe that will come with SMTs in 2024.
There are legitimate uses, and I've seen your stuff with regards to loaning out the cards and think you pass the tag test.
I could easily tag this one with the 'no specific content' tribes and fill my 5 tags up. Do I use another interface and use 15 tags in future - 12 for the tribes and 3 to describe?
2024.... bit eager aren't you? :)
If you were an actual member of those tribes, then I don't see why not.
But it's up to each tribe to police their own members (or not).
I think it's just that tags are a clumsy mechanism. If someone wants to get fancy, you could design a topical LSI analyzer and categorize things that way.
Well I have a bunch of tokens invested and curate manually and automatically across them.
I suspect anything will be scammed/abused, even a'topical LSI analyzer', perhaps even with hidden text.
The pal and leo rollouts have and will fare way better as far as abuse from what i've seen in other tribes. Without steemcleaners to help, the scammers are having a field day (particularly with SPORTS and SPT).
And yes, I figure another Olympics or three :)
“With SMTs In 2024”
.... 🤣
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By then most of the LEO will be burnt and LTH's will be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :D
#steemleo #paymecauseIsaidLEO
#sponsored #ad 😜
Boom! :D
Favorite tag on this post is "busy" lol. #hastag
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using busy.org and tagging busy is a vote a day - i'll take it :)
Definitely! I took full advantage of that when I had time and something to say! I no longer have those things lol.
Posted using Partiko Android
Producing new and interesting content each day is tough. If you skip the 2nd adjective then it gets a bit easier :D
!ENGAGE 100
Here are your
ENGAGEtokens!To view or trade
ENGAGEgo to steem-engine.com.Hey, @abh12345.
You're certainly not lacking from input on this particular topic.
For me, I'm a little divided in that these tribes or communities, if they actually provide eyes on posts, can be helpful. The problem is, I'm afraid that people are just hoping that someone, anyone, will read their posts, without really having or taking the time to read someone else's posts. Reciprocation is hard to come by around here in any part of STEEM.
You know better than I how tags aren't necessarily used the way they should be, even before the advent of dApps and now tribes. While they're meant to filter down, or provide up to five different places for a post to be found (I guess there could be more depending on the front end you use), based on subject matter, they generally end up somewhere the author believes it will be seen.
I'm concerned that without some white or black listing, that these tribes will end up being another extension of what tags have become—an attempt to appropriate places where an author can maximize their profits without really adhering to any particular rules or topics.
If moderators are indeed looking after the integrity of their tribes, good for them. That can be a lonely, thankless job in the face of an onslaught that's sure to come if there are any major upvotes involved.
The tribes are taking up much of my time, not so much on the content creation but more on organising how I'm going to support all my favourite people and the best work on each.
yabapmatt replied with what was originally planned, and what we may see in the future as a solution to the wayward tagging.
I am hoping that people will learn not to spam 15/20 tags as they could end up persistently flagged or even removed from a tribe. For now though, it is a bit of a free for all.
I think content tags are overrated. 2 years posting and curating here, i've never browsed by tag or keyword. Might as well use them to assign posts to the proper tribe. The new condensers allow for more than five tags. #neoxian #palnet
Fair enough. I do use them from time to time but they are seldom useful.
You should be getting 3 upvotes...
We were just talking about tags in the PHC discord the other day. I struggle with what to use myself, as I have been asked and encouraged to use certain of the tribe tags. But then I want to actually have my post tagged by the content I'm sharing, as well. Though does it even matter at this point? Does anyone actually search by tags to find content they like? I know I did when I just started so I could find content I actually enjoyed, but now I have so many people I try to support regularly that I have to admit I don't venture out to search new content out as much as I would like. #baffled 🤷♀️
I must admit I don't have a lot of time to spare to go out looking for new content, but when I do, I'm an old-fashioned tag-searcher...
Good to know. I would think a lot of curators who tend to look for specific types of content would also use tags to search, so perhaps some people are actually missing out on being curated by not using proper tags, as well? I guess maybe some people don't care, but I'd still like my content to show up where people actually care to read it. 🤣
I assume they do... I assume I do too, since I've gone back to using only 5 tags, but have used busy, palnet and powerhousecreatives. That means I only had two left to categorize
Yeah, a little confusing to know how best to approach it. Makes you really have to nail down those few tags that represent what the post is about.
haha, nice tag :)
I guess it doesn't matter, unless you are a moderator of a tribe viewing a lot of inappropriate content.
It's just #messy right now :)
I think tags are a poor choice all around. There's a reason they've been dropped hard by better content platforms/search algorithms. We need a better system.
Thanks for tip on comments. I guess that's another silly thing I gotta do.
#tag
Fair point. What are the alternatives? Way better search indexing? Probably be abused anyway :)
Sorry, I don't have any #tag tokens, try another one?
Tag limits need to be increased across all front ends. Starting with steemit.com. Tribes aren't going away any time soon so steem needs to adapt.
Perhaps they wont increase the number to try to slow down tribes? oooooo
Lol. Don't give them any ideas!
I'm not sure about more tags, I won't upvote things with 10 tags, spam tags or that aren't specifically related to a community. Sure people are free to use 10 tags but better watch out when hf21 comes and we can downvote for tag abuse freely.
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Same, and certainly not with my main account (with the alts trailing if they spot a tag they like).
I might go to one of those alts to vote with just that account though, if I can be arsed.
We really should have come up with a convention for content-type, language etc. years ago.
yababmatt's reply contains info relating to how the tribes could work in future. I guess content-type would also go in the json somewhere?
I remember those days, it made curation a little bit easier, now it's gone to shit as you said. I think it would be helpful if we had a spot designated for tribe tags
While another section for content tags, will help with the categorization of content and associating specific keywords with specific tribe sites.
You do! Post from a scot tribe and boom you got a bunch of tag slots you can use just for them. Steem only uses the first 5. Everything else outside of one first 5 for a tribe can be just for them.
Yes I’ve noticed that but I’d like it to be a stipulated predefined user experience so that all users realize it and start to use tags in that manner in the post creation process a simple two text fields one for tribe and one for content would be a welcomed addition for me
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Yeah I agree. From yabapmatt's reply, the original solution didn't involve tags for tribes.
It's not grumping. I hate the tag misuse these days most to claim tokens. Back in the day or read severely frowned upon but unfortunately with the tokens seems to have come a screening greed for all of them
The big token claim extravaganza is upon us. Throw enough shit at the wall and see what sticks!
#palnet #boom #sports #loaded #neoxian #sowhaleIgotmyowntag
I like that last one very much!!! :0D
I must say I sort of agree, I started using my #justbecause tag as the first tag on most of my post because no one could tell me to remove it for tag abuse. I don't know if they fixed the first tag changeable or not, but not taking chances with it.
I sometimes remember to throw a Tribal Tag in every now and then, but not often any more. I am trying to move back to having tag fun. Prior to the tribes my tags looked something like this:
justbecause alaska hasmoose moosemonday animatedgif.I use to like to have fun with my tags, now they look something like
justbecause palnet steemleo virtualcoins neoxian.The tags fit with the communities, but other than
virtualcoinsgive no clue as to what the post was about, (nothing other than my first dozen coins/tokens, I got).I look on all my Tribe feeds, and they have some nicely chosen categories, especially the Sports Talk tribe, but with all the Tribal tags being used, are any of the category tags being used. If we have to just scroll down through the primary tag on a feed it did nothing to help the content consumer like me. I may as well stick with surfing the trending tag on steemit.
I am trying to return to tag fun, if I can ever get around to creating a post again. Learning takes a lot of time.
Pretty sure first tag remains unchangeable and becomes the 'category' choice.
I used to play with my tags too, knowing that they were never used so much to locate content, but nowadays it is tempting to go for the default content tags - particularly as I have stake in all of them.
I like what sports have done with their sub-tags, although had nothing to offer there today, I can usually find one. At present though, I can go through the 'New' link on most tribes - neoxian and marlians are a bit an effort though.
You’ve raised a fair point here.
I’ll try in my own posts to be more conscious, and tag appropriately as well as for the tribes. 👍🏻
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Sounds good!
Hey, I feel that my post, at least partially, triggered your article.
You are right, of course.
Yet, looking from the perspective of uncensored blockchain-based media you can use any tag for anything and let your audience decide what to do with it.
There is no such thing as copyright over a tag :)
Yours and a collection, but I'm not mad at anyone - this is the playing-field we have right now :)
And you are right, the audience can do as they please still, like downvote n stuff.
Amen to that :)
TAG WARS WE NEED A GAME.
This post was curated by @adsup a division of @adsactly.
I feel your pain and I love the tribes, but yeah it's messy.
Messy, yep :)
#tagyourareit
It makes me sad too. However a lot of posts only need one real tag so there are 4 left. I suggest people stop using tags like 'blog' 'life' amd 'steem' for most posts
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blog and life could become the tags to check soon as everyone migrates to #tag4tokens :)
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Maybe code should be implemented to discriminate between content tags and app/tribe tags. 5 tags for tribes that can be assigned automatically, 5 for content that can only be set manually?
That is an option. yabapmatt also replied with another potential solution in the future.
time changed completely so does steemit will
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Here, I'll just leave you to enjoy this tag fest :P
https://steemit.com/@steemingmark/actifit-steemingmark-20190728t214254098z
I do use tags to find content sometimes, so I hope they don't die out. Don't think I've used more than two to get tokens or votes. Maybe the sites should allow more than 5 as it is but a blockchain limitation. I did a dtube post yesterday and it only allowed one tag. That seems strange.
The number of tags per post is a frontend limitation.
Added later It's five tag limit with some frontends like steemit, steempeak partiko esteem, ...
I didn't know that steemit clones / scot tribes allow ten tags. #til :)
Same for me, but I know not to click #life. #newsteem and #beos are ones I've used recently.
Some sites allow more than 5, actifit and steeditor for two. I am surprised only one is allowed there - the new interface is a bit different to the norm and so maybe it's an option somewhere.
I don't think that works? But yeah, there are plenty of those fishers out there and some of them wonder why they get muted, blacklisted, etc.
LOL - Tagtastic!
I'm pretty sure it does work but you can test by replying with #steemleo, #palnet, #neoxian and #marlians if you like?
Ah, you are right. So, it does. That just makes guys like this lamer.
No wonder these dumbasses stake everything and only votes for themselves.
Ahh, my good friend Cranium... a fine example :)
It's up to the Tribes to mute people like this if they value their tokens.
People complain about whales doing stuff on Steem, now they have a chance to enforce their own communities. If they don't, that's on them.
Yep. I'm helping with SPORTS, but it is a shit-show right now. There have been times where I've wanted Steemcleaners to whale up - lots of mack-bot / cheetah votes doing nothing over there.