Why wouldn't someone join Hive?

in OCD4 years ago

I was discussing some Hive points around the benefits of staking and how the biggest challenge facing Hive is attracting end users, not developers or creatives. I stated the issue as, An audience has to be attracted away from where they are currently consuming, which is very difficult as they are already consuming a lot and much of it is forced down their throat by centralized curation. It is where their friends are, it is polished and pretty, it is convenient - it is risk free.

Using Hive as one's primary social media is also completely risk free. What is there to lose?@markkujantunen

This is correct, Hive is risk free in some ways and there is very little to lose in trying, but this isn't the same as trying a new food or hobby, as that is not the way most people are introduced to Hive. Most people are presented the "getting paid" part and I believe this comes saddled with assumptions and expectations.

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I think that firstly, people are likely to believe that it is some kind of scam, as many are already wary of the "earn online" nonsense that much of the internet is known for. The next thing is that it can also seem too good to be true or that the chance of getting paid isn't good. Some people get paid through Instagram, Twitter and Facebook - but no normal user joined up there in order to earn from the get-go, it was purely consumptive - however some expanded into earning from that point.

I think the other thing that would likely come up is that getting paid to contribute comes with the feeling of work and for most, work rarely comes with a positive feeling. Not only that, while people add stuff to social media all of the time, once a "reward" is available, the concept of social judgement comes into play in a different way. Getting judged on opinion is one thing, getting judged on skills quite another and many people are quite fearful of this. Not getting paid not only doesn't attract as critical eye from the audience, it also gives an excuse for not being better -

professionals get paid, not amateurs.

On most other social media platforms where people spend their time, people do not know how much those who get paid get, they don't necessarily even know who actually gets paid. Is an "influencer" getting paid, free merchandise or are the parents footing the bill? When we do actually know someone is getting paid, it is the star level kinds of people like Christiano Ronaldo, who got paid 60 million for a handful of paid posts on Instagram, 3x that of his salary of performing his prodession. But, he is famous, he is someone, he already has a following.

Who am I to get paid for my random amateur nonsense?

That is rhetorical - I am no one. As are we all. Just like the markets, who we are doesn't matter as much as the sentiment concerning who we are. For example, the small difference in skill at professional levels matters less than the hype a person can create surrounding who they are. The top graduates from an Ivy league school for example, will earn more than those just below, even though the grades are very similar. Perception matters, things like reputation and expectation.

While I know that most people don't think about these things directly or at depth, I believe that when a user is presented with the "get paid to blog" scenario, they immediately think, "what would I blog about that is worth getting paid for" and it doesn't matter if told that it doesn't matter, just do what you normally do on other platforms.

Getting paid comes saddled with ingrained expectations of many kinds and social risks come into play. Trying a new food or starting a new hobby has less risk from the get go as very few try a food or start a hobby with the expectation that they are going to get paid for it, at least not from other people sitting in the restaurant or in the class.

Don't you find it interesting that on Hive, we pay each other? You should, because this is the future of ownership and consumption - a far more direct relationship between supplier and consumer with far less middlemen. This is not the normal order of business on other platforms as while consumers pay, the platform distributed.

But, a new potential user doesn't know anything about this, they have no idea what the platform is about and do not consider it an investment vehicle or a place to hang out, because, they are already hanging out somewhere else and investing into social media isn't really possible without buying stocks.

In my view, there are many reasons why someone would be scared to join Hive and a lot of it comes down to their previous experiences on the internet in general and with social media. Money from the internet sounds like a scam, social media is something that people do for free. Most do know that the large companies are making bundles of cash off of their users, but don't know any users who are actually making money from social media. We might have a higher rate of awareness here, but how many people do you know in your real-world social circles who make money from posting online?

As said, perception matters and the perception that many people have of earning online opportunities is either not good or, considered out of their reach. I think that this sets up a mental/ emotional hurdle that stops many people from putting their hat in the ring and giving it a go. The last barrier I will mention here is social proofing.

If this is so good, why aren't more people here?

What I believe is that if there were more people here that people actually knew (like friends, family and celebrities which the other platforms leverage), more people would be willing to join as it has been "pre-approved" by their peers, it has been normalized. Even for many of the people who have given Hive a go, this isn't normal and they aren't so keen to invite their friends and family onto the platform - which creates a catch-22 for the platform too.

Perhaps the only way around this is for a Hive application to become very popular and attract many users without having them go through the Hive learning curve, one that requires a paradigm shift. Instead, they come in through a mass gateway and then filter out as the success of one application will inspire more development and gateways to explore. Some percentage of the arrivals will get interested in the platform to start learning and investing, which will create a similar mass of users for the investment side, normalizing investing directly into a platform and creating that direct relationship between consumer and contributor.

The mechanisms surrounding creator and consumer rewards are obviously a vital part of the equation, but due to most people off-platform not really having any understanding of what this all means, it also becomes a hurdle.

Something interesting happened the other day while sitting around with my colleagues. I have mentioned that I write during the course of the discussion, one of them mentioned an article of mine she had read about my daughter and how moving it was. She doesn't have an account here. How long until she joins? Now, I could force the matter and she will join under my guidance, but doing it upon her own volition means she is opting-in and there is power is that - when the decision is our own, we are more likely to invest ourselves to discover further and, more likely to consider the decision we made as good.

When we try a new restaurant we will often over-reward the experience and tell others. However, when we try a new restaurant based on the recommendation of friends, we will evaluate it based on their opinion and we will have set expectations. Food is pretty simple, Hive is not and a lot of people doing the onboarding have either already overcome all of the hurdles to be well versed and therefore forgetful of the challenges of the technical side and the paradigm shift required, or not have much of an understanding past "get paid". Either way - it can make trying Hive difficult.

Should people join and try?

Of course! But it isn't as easy for many people as some people might think. I remember posting my first post and the trepidation I had at the time. It was a piece others had seen and liked, but when I put it here, it felt different. The only difference?

There was the potential for it to earn something.

It changes things dramatically.

Taraz
[ Gen1: Hive ]

I am very interested to hear your own experiences and opinions around this area.

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professionals get paid, not amateurs.

That is our problem here. Two guys that I invited, the one is fairly computer literate and the other is just an ordinary guy like me. Both have a strong Facebook presence and they could do well on Hive.

But! The one struggled to get in at his first try and he never bothered again. The other told me that crypto was too difficult and he didn't have the time for all the intricacies.

I think that there is a lack of incentives to hook newbies and like I said before, Hive has to become more friendly.

Clear step-by-step instruction without too much of "blockchain things". So newbie can understand it as get paid to post any content.

Step-by-step is the answer my friend!

I think there are plenty of incentives, but perhaps most people are yet to understand them. For example, censorship resistance and the ability to buy a subscription for lifetime membership and value. It isn't obvious at first though.

Removing HBI which it basically is on hold for new accounts right now. I saw a comment on discord and they have 25 HBI and single figures Hive yet they are being down voted. Not great as this was our building tool for new accounts.

Hive basic income?

Yes Hive Basic Income. Down voting anyone who basically uses it.This was the new accounts tool for growth as many were given out as prizes. I know I used to give the odd ones out as it does help.

Well maybe all of these things must appear first up so that it can inspire some confidence methinks!
Many people are nervous and may I say even doubtful at their first attempt and the "scam" thought is uppermost in their minds!

Yep, this is why I think applications are the way, as they offer narrow incentives (play and win at a game - earn some points) while introducing people to the ecosystem a step at a time (take those points, transfer, exchange, spend)

Yeah, and a good idea for a start.
Just as they have the free coding education projects for children.
Very basic at first, but at the end of only a 2 week period, graduates can build their own games.
Hive should follow the same example for new entrants and we could even fit a bit of coding education in towards the end of the welcoming project, curriculum!

I think that once /if things get going, all kinds of groups will leverage the environment to build their experiences. Lots of opportunities for education.

Looking forward is all that we can do my friend!

... censorship resistance ...

Are you serious? After the outragous manipulation of the blockchain during the resynced fork do you really trust the V.22.2 Cabal with securing your data? Just the way they have walked away from loyal supporters to their many dApps on STEEM goes to show you that users mean nothing but more token grinding to the V.22.2 Cabal.

Are you on the wrong chain?

Are you on the wrong chain?

Powering down on both chains and shifting HIVE and STEEM to XMR and BTC respectively. Like to call it curating my way out the door. 😎

different chain, same problems.

I think that there is a lack of incentives to hook newbies and like I said before, Hive has to become more friendly.

My thoughts exactly. I don't think Hive is newbie friendly. I'm still quite a newbie myself, on the Hive. Although I've had good experience on Steemit.

I tried registering on hive but must admit it was difficult, waited for my keys like anyone else but had nothing come through. I refuse to pay for it especially when I have no clue about this site really and was asked to try it out from a friend.
As my keys password didn’t come through , he set me up with a account.
I love the fact that you can do what you normally do on others platforms and get paid even if it’s minor , makes perfect sense to me . As I’m still learning and understanding how this all works ,I’m finding it very interesting.

Hopefully the signup process gets easier. If you don't mind me asking, where did you register?

I love the fact that you can do what you normally do on others platforms and get paid even if it’s minor , makes perfect sense to me

There is an immense amountof value that is transferred across social media platforms in many streams - I think those who actually add the value you should get some of the value they generate too.

Well at least you have some steemit experience, but I am talking about those that have absolutely no experience. If we struggle at times, imagine how they struggle.

I agree on this point.
I asked many people to use Hive, and build a community here.
90% of them didnt understand it well enough,
they got confused with everything, struggled for sometime and gave up :(
though most understood the concept and really appreciated, they said it would have been great if the platform was more like "Noob friendly".
I hope one day Hive becomes something like noob friendly!

A good name that; "Noob friendly".
Problem is that people don't like to struggle and many don't have any persistence. But yes, agreed, something needs to be done!

Yes, because we also need to think of it that way where people who are not into cryptocurrency can also come and log in to Hive and start their new decentralized social-media journey:)
I personally see this platform to be a very good use case for mass adoption in cryptos as well, but there are a few drawbacks. I hope they will get addressed soon! :)

Well the platform is fairly new and everyone is working hard on it, so I am sure that given time Hive will mature into an outstanding platform.
Let's see how it goes.

I have never commented on one of your posts, so this is the first time and it's not going to be pretty.

Some people around here, are just never going to get it. You just keep preaching and regurgitating the same things over and over again, while being completely oblivious to what most people really think. I hope you realise by now, that people are not interested in spin. They have eyes and can see some of what goes on around here. They don't think or have certain opinions, for no reason at all. They see things from an outsiders perspective, which some of you will never address adequately or honestly. But you guys are just not interested in listening. You are only interested in telling everyone how and what it should be like around here. Some of you think that only you know how to run a successful blog and what people want to read or hear, because you have a big influence on this platform. You live in a privileged bubble on this platform for various reasons, so that means that you really don't want to know, unless it serves your self-interest directly.

If you guys (the influencer's on this platform) don't start actually listening and understanding the average person from the 'other side' (and stop telling them they are constantly wrong and not entitled to anything), then this place is going to clear out and is doomed to fail - just like Steemit did...and unlike what some of you think, it's not only just because of Justin Sun either.

I will now say goodbye.....

I will now say goodbye.....

Please do.

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This comment was left after I wished another user well after illness. Fucking prick.

Jeez...

So if he had made at least one point, which didn't happen, it would have held no weight with me.

He's a top fella this one.....

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Look at your pussy boyfriend. keeps writing comments from a memo like a coward so I the other party can't have the right of reply. SMELLS LIKE HIVE AUTHORITARIANISM.

BOW TO YOUR MASTERS SLAVES! Freedom is hive slavery!

Thank you very much for the fair and bold comment. I really liked your thoughts. I wish you success and all the best.

I have never commented on one of your posts

I am pretty sure you have before.

They see things from an outsiders perspective, which some of you will never address adequately or honestly.

out of curiosity, do you think that I only live on Hive?

You live in a privileged bubble on this platform for various reasons,

Indeed I do

so that means that you really don't want to know, unless it serves your self-interest directly.

And.... Bullshit.

If you guys (the influencer's on this platform) don't start actually listening and understanding the average person from the 'other side'

Fair enough, what would that be? I tend to talk to a lot of average people on and off the platform, because that is where I spend my time, being average myself.

Thank you for adding nothing to the conversation btw.

I always give the respect I receive. And I have gotten that respect from @tarazkp on many posts and comments. And several times it has been brutally honest, no spin. So I gotta call bullshit also.

Thanks :)

Ok Thanks for proving my point. Tell your cock sucking faggot circle-jerking mother fucking coward wanker boyfriend abh fuckface to actually go fuck himself. He flags my comment from a memo like a fucking coward little bitch, and then tells me to fuck off. You people are fucking pathetic, and then you wonder why the place is dead.

Look in the fucking mirror you arrogant wankers. Take a good look around and see how you are wrong.

Point proven cry babies, because you cant handle any type of criticism. Good luck with your circle jerking fuckers. Now you can downvote me too cry baby.

I'm tired of getting constant hate thrown my way from a gang of pigs that I've had to deal with on this platform. I have been constantly downvoted, deliberately attacked for 2 years in this place. I've been deliberately stolen from, colluded against from his so-called friends, but all he can say is leave.

All class.

Ah yes. All class hey? So then tell me, where is the class from you "community leaders" when you act like a bunch of entitled losers because you cant handle some criticism. That doesnt somehow apply to you right? Will you please comment on your boyfriends downvote now, or will you pretend that it didnt happen?

I think by his actions, we very well know who the one with no class is.

I agree with his downvote.

Of course you do. Circle-jerking boyfriends always stick together. Privileged and entitled circle-jerkers. Keep it up and then tell everyone how awesone you are after they've all gone, while you sit alone and play with yourselves.

I know what's coming next btw, you pathetic bullies. Or should I say "community leaders" LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You should know that @tarazkp is one of the Steem/Hive influencers actually successful at onboarding dozens of people. Most of those people have fallen to the wayside but I recall many of them being active users and contributors until the end of 2018. He's probably got the best track record of all active onboarders that I know personally.

By the way, you really added nothing to the conversation. You threw a generic accusation of Hive inluencers "not getting" what outsiders think while not elaborating at all what you think it is that they're oblivious of.

By the way, you really added nothing to the conversation.

My take on what he is adding is don't be so cruel as to introduce your friends to a pyramid scheme known as HIVE, but you probably feel the same about my input.

So you think he thinks Hive is a pyramid scheme?

That's something novel because he really didn't say that. Thanks for your thoughts. It might as well be that that is what he meant but only he can tell us.

Introducing your friends to create content on Hive does not make them participants in a pyramid scheme where earlier participants benefit off the back of later entrants like in a pyramid scheme. All content creators and curators are winners on Hive.

Where does the value come from then? As I've said multiple times, it comes from the altcoin speculator crowd that uses HIVE as speculative instrument to gain more BTC, which in itself is a speculative vehicle.

When you start earning rewards of one kind or another from the Hive reward pool, it's like becoming a tax authority, except that you're not pointing a gun at anybody to coerce them to pay you anything. There are 200 million liquid HIVE on exchanges where traders trade it back and forth for BTC in an attempt at growing their positions. The price volatility is so large as in several orders of magnitude that the traders do not mind the pesky 8% annual inflation Hive currently has. They voluntarily allow the likes of you and I to get our cut from of the Hive inflation pool as a reward for our social media activities. This is how Hive gains access to the initial capital required to grow this thing into the back bone of Web 3.0

Hive is not a pyramid scheme and nobody is getting shafted. The speculative games revolving around cryptocurrencies are like a casino. We the content creators and curators on Hive are like members of a native American tribe on whose lands the casino operates and who get a piece of the action.

If your content was sitting on the HIVE blockchain adding value to the blockchain and the funds in your forked account were removed do you not think that is shafting someone? That is one example of the HIVE scam beginnings.

Have another drink of KoolAid my friend. It's so sweet and sticky.

If the V.22.2 Cabal sat around all day voting on each others' posts in a circle jerky fashion do you think that would draw users to the scam? When you sell your STEEM and buy HIVE where do you think that HIVE came from other than the trickle from folks like me? It comes from the token grinding V.22.2 Cabal who shattered the community and created HIVE by fearing the loss of their position on the pyramid.

Ah, I see. The pyramid scheme idea is held by you.

If your content was sitting on the HIVE blockchain adding value to the blockchain and the funds in your forked account were removed do you not think that is shafting someone? That is one example of the HIVE scam beginnings.

You may disagree with the airdrop not going to everybody but this is not an example of a pyramid scheme. It is in the very nature of public blockchains that anyone can fork them. If you object to your content ending up on Steem forks, then you should never have posted it to Steem.

[...]

If the V.22.2 Cabal sat around all day voting on each others' posts in a circle jerky fashion do you think that would draw users to the scam?

Ah, the circle jerk accusation again. You can go to Facebook and see how much you can make there.

When you sell your STEEM and buy HIVE where do you think that HIVE came from other than the trickle from folks like me? It comes from the token grinding V.22.2 Cabal who shattered the community and created HIVE by fearing the loss of their position on the pyramid.

I think you should be on mainstream social media platforms where the value flows are hidden from you. You will not need to feel bad about the top-heavy distributions existing on those platforms because you won't see them. @tarazkp, this is what I'm talking about when I say that the rewards are too conspicuous on the front ends.

I think you should be on mainstream social media platforms where the value flows are hidden from you.

Let me guess a Biden supporter? The less of two evils? Think waiting for @openorchard and shifting DPoS exposure to PoW in the meantime is the way to go, myself. Just speaking up for the up and coming suckers to HIVE not established users as yourself.

You poor little slave. You are so gullible, that you continue to drink his sales pitch coolaid, even after admitting in your own comment that it is failing. You still give him credit for on-boarding users who have now gone. once they are gone, the credit ends right there. Let me repeat, when the users leave, the credit stops there. You don't continue to give someone credit, after the failure to retain them on the platform. Do you even realise that you just re-affirmed my actual point? Even after the main reason why you replied to me was because you claimed I didn't make any points? You poor poor thing, obviuosly not - because you are blinded by the sales pitch. But you will continue to return to drink from the coolaid trough, for a couple of cents worth of upvotes on a comment. That's the whole plan here. To get people like you to continuously return to their posts for "engagement" and drive all the traffic to the posts of the very very few on here. It's called marketing manipulation. lmao, so easy to fool the sheeple on here.

A stream of insults does not an argument make. :)

For me, Hive works much better than any other social media that I've tried in about 30 years. You seem to post quite often, too, and seem to be well rewarded. It seems that engagement that others get but you don't is what you are envious of because your posts do not seem to be getting too much of that.

When it comes to the quality of interaction on Hive, you are exceptional in my personal experience. If you want better engagement in your blog, I suggest you work on your attitude and communication skills. :)

Unfortunately, You have missed every single opportunity to understand my original comment, and you ignored everything that was in any way detrimental to the point of views of the author for obvious reasons that I already outlined lol. There was no stream of continual insults, it's was just sarcasm as away to get a point across, combined with what you call strong criticism and it was not just directed at this author, as some people in this thread have claimed.

Look at the first reply to my original comment. It was complimentary, so obviously some people agree with what I had to say - but you and a few others completely dismiss that. Pay attention, because as I said, if the smaller/average users are just brushed aside as insignificant and merely used as a way to further the interests of a few, then the failure will be sooner rather than later. But they don't want to hear that, because they don't want others to hear it too. Why do you think that his partner in crime (I will no longer mention them by their usernames), arrived on the scene out of nowhere, and not only downvoted an opinion with force and no reason given - but he actually insulted me - and he did it from a memo. Why do you think he did that? So I could not have the right of reply. That is called Authoritarianism. You should now realise why these people are part of the problem. Not the whole problem, but part of it. Those types of actions, are what drive out content creators.

Here is the other point that you are missed. You seem to think that I am complaining about my blog and the results of my efforts. I'm obviously not complaining about that. I've done just fine, because I blog about things that I enjoy writing about. I have also found the right circle of users to interact with and share content with....same goes with the community I was part of. So, I'm not complaining for myself, I was merely making a statement that there is blindness involved with the reasons on why the entire platform is failing as a whole.

If you want better engagement in your blog, I suggest you work on your attitude and communication skills. :)

Thanks for the advice. I definitely have zero communication skills, because I'm not allowed to. That's why - the silencer gets applied pretty quickly to those who don't adhere to the rules of the anointed "kings and Queens" of the platform. You know that, which is why you take the easy road and just "play ball". playing right into the hands of it all, just all the rest who do the same. That's why I feel sorry for you all. You are just happy to succumb to that BS, without speaking up.

They are the same people who continuously tell everyone that they are entitled to nothing, but reap all the rewards amongst themselves. Not only that, but some of them have the audacity to write posts asking for large sums of money for doing discord work, and spending time doing things, off the actual platform haha. C'mon, please!

I will end this conversation by saying that I am now leaving the platform. So guess what? Mission accomplished. You won't dare to tell them they lack communication skill now will you? You see what the problem is now? You all adhere to their authoritarianism and drink their coolaid, without questioning it in any way, while you have no problem in responding to me with an honest opinion of how I act, you will never do that to the "big fish" on here. You give these guys way too much credit, and all they really did was get to this platform before everyone else. That's why and how they succeeded. When you get in early, you create all the circles and networks early. It's simple math. Something that gets lost on the people who are desperate to please the "influencers" at any cost.

So far the substance of your criticism towards Hive has been that there's too much circle jerking (large stakeholders giving each other large upvotes in a circle) going on.

I'm not part of any circle jerks with large accounts and I've never been. Yet, I'm quite happy with my earnings because I know I couldn't have earned anywhere near as much on them on any other platform. If I've been able to do it on less than stellar content the kind couldn't have earned anything anywhere else, so can a lot of other people. What's great about this place is that it's perfectly good for the very same activities as any other social media platform while offering the possibility to earn something.

There is a group of people who mined a lot of Steem Power in the beginning many of whom became consensus witnesses. You seem to be saying that I should be horribly envious of these people and harbor a great deal of resentment towards them simply because their early adopter advantage is considerable.

The circle jerk criticism, while not completely unfounded, is not fair since there are curation projects with very large amounts of Hive Power that constantly reward very large numbers of content creators for good content. But you will not find a platform anywhere where the distribution of rewards is considerably less top-heavy than on Hive. YouTube, for example, has made its founders extremely wealthy and only the very top of the content creators there earn much of anything.

If you have the technical skills or know people who do, then I suggest you create a new fork of Hive and airdrop the tokens to whoever you want. Then you can try and get the token listed by major exchanges. That's how you can build a platform tailored to your own liking. Just do it!

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Well you said all that without actually telling us the big thing we're missing. Enlighten us.

It's a secret.

Oh! Another BIG word here is disappointment.

One works hard to create a great quality post. Opens it the next morning in high hopes to see only a piddling amount on the post. Then has a look at other posts with higher values and realizes that one is not connected. One feels unvalued and despondent.
I think my name is "One" lol.

Again. You hit the nail on the head here.

Yes, this is an issue, but again, it is at the "already on" level - where are the people joining to try their hands?

What is the "already on" level?

The people tried to join on Steemit and they will not try again on Hive!

I mean, in total there has likely been a couple hundred thousand unique users on both platforms. There are 4 billion people on the internet, most of whom wouldn't mind a little extra money and most of whom are already on social media. There really hasn't been so many users overall.

Would rather the Zuck whoring me out than the V.22.2 Cabal. Curating my way the fuck out of here.

We all make our own beds.

i thought that many times in my 2 and a half years here. but then i really think about all other social media and see that it is not connected anywhere. i bet you can think of decent amount of people that are earning a lot on youtube and you think their content is crap, and also for sure know people that are posting and you think how are this people not earning anything.

Yeah agreed, it can certainly mess with ones head.
I think the trick is to just shut our eyes and to continue blindly until it all sorts itself out. When that is will be another question:)

i am kinda conscientious about 2 things. My programming skills and knowledge of blockchain technology (which is non existent) and my influence on the platform (which is also non existent) so i am here, i follow what is going on, sometimes when i think i am smart i say something (half of the time i am not being smart), so my ambitions are low :D

I think that you and I are in the same boat mate:)

Ever since I joined Steem I have been trying to persuade people they should join up, with limited success. Some of those who did join did not stick around long and some never posted.

Some of the reasons I have seen for not using it are:

  • Difficulty of converting crypto to fiat.
  • Complicated to use, but with things like Keychain it has got easier.
  • Some politically 'dodgy' people here and getting good rewards.
  • A few big accounts get most of the rewards and little guys struggle.

There is validity in these, but they could be improved on. One of the issues is that we need more people to get a better variety of content and spread of rewards, but then we need those to attract the masses. Catch 22?

I would love to see more musicians on here, but they go where their audience is (Twitter, Instagram, Youtube, Facebook). It takes time to manage each social account and the earnings may not justify that. We need the pioneers who will give it a chance. If a few start doing well and bring their fans over then we have something. One mid-level band could easily double the active users if their fans came over. Could we create enough accounts for them?

We have to face that the platform has technical and image issues. We need to find ways to improve on those. We do have something amazing, but we have seen how hard it is to gain users over the last few years. What can we learn from that?

. One of the issues is that we need more people to get a better variety of content and spread of rewards, but then we need those to attract the masses.

For sure and that wider audience has to hold some level of stake to distribute. Imagine the equivalent of 100 whales, 1000 orcas and 10,000 dolphins, 100,000 minnows who spend their time mostly in 1-3 topics. While at these prices that might not spread much value to each, at 5 or ten dollars, it makes Reddit look ridiculous :)

Getting there is the challenge when so many people have a short term view. This is building a different economy with people who are largely not economists or business people and people expect it to be like Keynes working with Henry Ford.

One mid-level band could easily double the active users if their fans came over.

Very easily indeed. A beautiful music/something app built on Hive that integrates into other platforms might work wonders.

We have to face that the platform has technical and image issues.

Technical once the person tries to sign up, many never get that far. Same for the image, but before sign up, it is more assumption based on past experience, experience that never had Hive.

Lots of issues to work through. Hope you are well mate :)

@steevc @tarazkp

Have been reading the discussion here and as a (no influence) musician, for me, PeakD/Hive has pretty much replaced my Facebook artist page because I wasn't getting really any interaction on there and they kept wanting me to pay to "boost" my posts so that it would be seen by my followers... that's right, people who had already liked my page, I'd have to pay for my post to reach them...

This is one of the reasons I started looking elsewhere but even to get musicians over, as I mentioned to Steeve, those bullet points mentioned are reasons why they won't get involved, add to that, those that are aware of cryptocurrencies, they have been involved with previous crypto projects that basically failed and it's left a sour taste in their mouths. "Once bitten twice shy" were words they used.

Now, if Hive, (maybe dsound but they go quiet for 8 months at a time without any updates) can create a mobile app catered for music fans, ease of use with USPs like download music from the mobile app to their phone with sending Hive to the musician in a seamless way - AND IT ACTUALLY WORKS - that could definitely be more appetising!

Right now, the option with Hive/PeakD is to embed music players from other sites like YouTube, Spotify and Soundcloud but if your followers are on those sites, then getting them to move across to a site they haven't heard of with all these complexities of sign-up is a big barrier.

Regarding all the other comments folks have made - I believe that there are different layers to consider with Hive. For me:

Hive itself is the blockchain/code level and token and should be advertised as a place for the developers and software whizzes to build dapps on as the base layer.

Then the second layer is the actual dapps themselves built for specific end users in mind. For example, PeakD is a bit more focused on bloggers, Splinterlands for card games, travelfeed for travel content etc... and these guys market themselves and build the interfaces accordingly to the target audience with everything running under the hood - there needs to be familiarity with sign-up processes.

Ok, think I've gone on long enough now :)

You might want to give your great suggestions to the @openorchard team. They are all old Steemit Inc. Devs, with two of them having actually coded things with @dan. HIVE is the AOL of DPoS in my opinion.

Thanks, I'll reach out to them and see what they think about it. If they are all the main/original developers of steem/hive then there is a chance!

Not following the AOL reference?

Thanks, I'll reach out to them...

Cool, as you appear to have some invaluable ideas.

Not following the AOL reference?

Just as well as it was a immature cheeky jab at HIVE on my part. ✌️😎

Cool, as you appear to have some invaluable ideas.

The ideas are mostly born out of frustrations of projects not listening to their users and I try to keep myself independent to maintain a balanced PoV.

Haha, OK, I only used AOL chat about 18 years ago, didn't realise it was still a thing 😆

that's right, people who had already liked my page, I'd have to pay for my post to reach them...

Raped from every hole... There is no end to it.

"Once bitten twice shy" were words they used.

This is for sure an issue, and remember that most people who have happened to try, came in at the hyped highs. It is only downhill for them.

Right now, the option with Hive/PeakD is to embed music players from other sites like YouTube, Spotify and Soundcloud but if your followers are on those sites, then getting them to move across to a site they haven't heard of with all these complexities of sign-up is a big barrier.

I would like to see more going the other way, but that requires using their APIs I believe.

I agree with the two layers.

I see it as infrastructure and then the many platforms possible on top through applications as well as secondary tokens that power them, like SMTs.

What I do believe is that if we can start solving some of these issues from various apporaches and then collaborating to improve, things can go very well here.

Raped from every hole... There is no end to it.

Lol, when you put it so eloquently...

This is for sure an issue, and remember that most people who have happened to try, came in at the hyped highs. It is only downhill for them.

Yeah we all definitely came in to it all from EMA (Electronic Music Alliance) in the ATHs and projects fell apart (Choon, Musicoin) or became seemingly abandoned (dsound - 1 real update in 14 months on Hive after having their Steemit delegation removed so don't really know if it's still being developed) and the faith has kinda gone so everyone went back to Spotify and YouTube to share their music.

As for the APIs, I don't really know about that, it's a bit beyond me the tech sometimes! The way it would work currently on Soundcloud is that you can put a button at the bottom of the track with a link to get the track somewhere like an online store. With the new Hive WordPress Payment plugin now fully working, musicians on Hive with a WordPress site can now at least point fans on SoundCloud who are on Hive to their site to buy it:

image.png

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Now, explaining that alone was complicated enough with all the variables in but in my head, if DSound ever starts developing or updating again or someone is up for developing a "DCloud" or "HiveSound" whatever - which can replace that button with an all-in-one Hive download feature using HIVE/HBD from that person's wallet... it could be Hive's answer to get musicians/music fans supporting artists here.

A good music app would help. Make it so you can log in with Twitter or Facebook and create a Hive account later just so people can instantly follow people. I think some dapps are doing this already. The app could create an account and import the keys, with ways to save them securely of course. Lots of possibilities if developers are up for doing it.

About the log ins, I mentioned this on a post by @justineh a month or so ago that if people can sign up with fb or Twitter etc then all the work of creating a Hive account can be done under the hood.

I think @steempress have "guest accounts" and know @travelfeed have got "Easy signup" but to link that to a Hive account name would help with the transition - I just don't know if it's possible as I'm not a coder but with the intelligent people we have that code the chain and dapps, I believe there's a way!

Really good point @nickyhavey, Hive needs to be marketed to developers, not end users.

We had several meetups last year trying to onboard travelers to TravelFeed, but when it came to creating an account that was very confusing for non-tech-savvy users and many didn't want to proceed, especially the hassle of saving a long key if they just have a phone and have never used a password manager before. And that was through our EasySign Up service that already took a lot of the difficulty out of the sign up process.

Based on this feedback we decided to move forward with a second layer solution, so now new users can register in a matter of seconds by using Google, Facebook or Email and they can use TravelFeed to its full extend. Our sign ups and especially the percentage of users who complete the sign up process have skyrocketed since then. Once users are active, we tell them, hey, why not create a free Hive account and get paid for what you are already doing? ;) Our Hive integration is fully integrated, so once a user links their Hive account, they can keep using the platform as before, but all their votes, comments and posts are broadcasted to Hive.

Btw, I tried to contact you on Discord @nickyhavey, are you no longer active there?

Our Hive integration is fully integrated, so once a user links their Hive account, they can keep using the platform as before, but all their votes, comments and posts are broadcasted to Hive.

That's awesome with the development on the easy sign-up and glad you've managed to get more users signed up. So when you say fully integrated, have you managed to get a new account created on Hive as soon as the user has signed up with Easy SignUp? Is there a way for that all to happen under the hood without the user even having the need to create a Hive account separately with all the confusing keys?

Btw, I tried to contact you on Discord @nickyhavey, are you no longer active there?

Hmm... I still have an account but it became a bit too much with the multiple Discords! Will rejoin the TF server now

I'm good. All healthy and sage here.

You can tell I am stubborn as I stick with this blockchain stuff despite the ups and downs. I have some trolls flagging me, but that won't put me off. I still want to see a real breakthrough. I may just need some tipping point to go viral.

I still want to see a real breakthrough.

Expect if from @openorchard in my opinion.

They need to post some updates to get a buzz going :)

My feeling, after listening to a recent interview, is that they are in no rush and plan to come out with a blockchain with no pre-mining and fair distribution of tokens. Such a breakthrough with DPoS would be buzz enough after all the bad press of this ugly fork.

Yep, real breakthroughs need to start. it is all well and good to focus on getting price up and whatnot through exchange listings, but there needs to be more than that to hold price up.

Exactly. Has to be some real value to it. Having the various dapps come across definitely helps.

I think it would help if we could get more @Steemmonsters players posting and voting. There are lots of them who only play the game and they could be earning Hive. The game site could incorporate more social stuff.

It's a complicated beast. To start with the fact that no one is here doesn't help. People do like the polished and pretty where their friends are. They often don't want to post to strangers, especially if it's something heartfelt or personal.

Then you have the image, what can be posted here? Long form content? Serious writing? A lot of people literally want to write fluffy things about finding a penny under their sofa. They look here and see serious blogs, often about the platform itself or crypto. It's a daunting thing for them.

And then, as you state, the money thing. They see it, they want it, they don't get it, they rage quit.

But in the main, I think the lack of focus is a biggie. What are we? A blogging platform or social media? We truly need to know who we are and be sure of it to attract users. Yeah, it can be tweaked through various front end but they don't know either.

What are we? A blogging platform or social media? We truly need to know who we are and be sure of it to attract users.

And certainly ¿Where are we? also. Without have those things well clarified in first place, the beast turns out to be even more complicated and thorny as to know from where exactly to take it to promote or marketing it to our family, friends and acquaintances without the risk of being accused afterward of have submitting them to unnecessary pricks and pain. };)

We can all do without the unnecessary pricks!!

To start with the fact that no one is here doesn't help.

A conundrum for sure :)

They look here and see serious blogs, often about the platform itself or crypto. It's a daunting thing for them.

Yes and even though the other does exist, it doesn't usually get rewarded. They are here for rewards.

And then, as you state, the money thing. They see it, they want it, they don't get it, they rage quit.

Because once they do try and eventually see shit being rewarded... :D

But in the main, I think the lack of focus is a biggie. What are we?

I think this is where application gateways have to help. User swill know the application and sign up under that premise. They don't need to know the entire ecosystem, or Hive at all. "Powered by Hive" might be the only reference. They will still have a Hive account and earn HIVE/SMT - but don't need to be in the firing line of the entire ecosystem.

I really do see the gateways as being crucial. Splinterlands doesn't require knowledge of the platform. Gets hoping dapplr is all that we have been hoping for and more!

Would be nice if Dapplr makes it at least easier to engage :)

a personality crisis, that's probably pretty accurate. Hive is definitely a mix, and perhaps there is value in that as well. But I somehow doubt that we will ever surpass instagram of fb, their sites are just too well made and to be honest blockchain technology actually makes user experience a lot worse.

Perhaps we have to realize that we shouldn't compete with these apps, but are something completely different: we have the value of decentralization, uncensored content, earning from posting etc. I think many people just haven't made the connection with these values. But as the recent censorship campaigns by youtube and twitter have shown, I think a lot of people are willing to start some place else new

They are willing to find something new that's for sure but am Instagramer will find little to interest here. In fact might find themselves on the wrong end of a downvote or two.

I agree though, we shouldn't compete but we should know our USP for the masses. Or at least slightly more masses than we have now :0)

And then, as you state, the money thing. They see it, they want it, they don't get it, they rage quit.

And they go back to their not-all-monetised platforms where they're datamined without any recompense at all!

They do, it's so ridiculous!!

And they go back to their not-all-monetised platforms where they're datamined without any recompense at all!

Ask the Korean Whale, who tried to bring calm to the pre-fork tension, if they would rather be data mined or fucked in their blow hole by the V.22.2 Cabal?

Totally agree with you. What are we? I see many posts with just a photo and few text (like Facebook status) earning decent income. And a well researched article is getting nothing.
We need to be sure, Hive is a blog like Medium? Or social media site like Facebook?

I think the money earning aspect is not enough to attract people. Most of us earn little to nothing here. And if you see worthless posts earning 50 dollars, you just quit. But I think this is impossible to fix as long as we’re in a bear market. IF prices start to rise again, the numbers will come. I think the price of HIVE is probably the most important factor.

I told zero of my friends about Hive/Steem. I just think it’s not worth it. Yet.

I've told a few friends, but I can't help give them all of the warnings which scare them off 😅

And if you see worthless posts earning 50 dollars, you just quit.

But this is after joining. Why are so many reluctant to try?

I told zero of my friends about Hive/Steem. I just think it’s not worth it. Yet.

When it comes to earning HIVE, which I see as one of the most imprtant factors for an account wanting to earn anything, the best time is when prices are down. Invest low, sell high - right?

Price brings people in, but it will never keep them.

I've thought of making a post like this, but then I didn't. I just felt I don't have the influence to make people read it, and I didn't just want it to be another post where a curation team just drops an upvote. But I'm glad someone of influence has written this, and I'm glad about the comments I've been able to read.

I've tried onboarding people, and so far, I've encountered 2 major problems and you stated them here;

  1. They think it's a scam.
  2. Hive doesn't seem so social.

I won't dwell on the first point because it's like general knowledge now for millennials. Most times platforms promising rewards for certain activities turned out to be scams.

The second point though, is where I think the major problem is. Hive isn't a social media when you put in the stereotype of other social media platforms say Facebook or Instagram.

On those platforms, users could post seemingly anything, and if they've got good following they could get thousand or likes and hundreds of comments. Now, those are worth something on Hive not Instagram.

But then, what's the probability that if they joined the Hive and made that same post, that they are going to get the same reaction. To be fair the probability is zero.

On Hive we here about original content, valuable content, no plagiarism, plenty this and thats, and that's why using the platform doesn't sound appealing to casual users.

A lot of prospective users are unwilling to put in the work that is seemingly needed on Hive. To them, the work is placed higher than the possible reward. And that's because the rewards aren't guaranteed.

Even for me that's been on the Hive for good period of time now, I still struggle with the negative emotions I feel when my seemingly valuable post is overlooked. I wonder how newbies will feel?

But then again, I don't think onboarding is the major issue, sustainability, or rather making these new users stay is what should be discussed.

I might have said a lot of rubbish, but this is my 2 cents.

But then, what's the probability that if they joined the Hive and made that same post, that they are going to get the same reaction. To be fair the probability is zero.

Yes, it is a different animal and not really a social media, that is only one aspect of it. People aren't used to the idea of working on the infrastructure level. The social part could be one platform, the gaming another - all tied below by the blockchain. It is kind of like websites leveraging the internet. Most people don't know anything about web protocols - they just use one the interfaces.

A lot of prospective users are unwilling to put in the work that is seemingly needed on Hive. To them, the work is placed higher than the possible reward. And that's because the rewards aren't guaranteed.

I think this is part of the problem with the idea of work. For example, I see work as having value without pay - for example, cutting my lawn. I like to have a neat garden. I write my posts regardless of the reward because, I like to present my thoughts well and I enjoy writing. Because of this, the work I see as valuable has over time, built up a following who also value it. It wasn't always this way and still, none of it is guaranteed. I have taken plenty of downvotes over time, far more than most.

Even for me that's been on the Hive for good period of time now, I still struggle with the negative emotions I feel when my seemingly valuable post is overlooked. I wonder how newbies will feel?

Ever published to Medium? I have. I am a relatively decent writer, the engagement there sucks ass.

But then again, I don't think onboarding is the major issue, sustainability, or rather making these new users stay is what should be discussed.

This is part of it, but this particular discussion is why they aren't here in the first place. Can't retain what we never had.

For example, I see work as having value without pay - for example, cutting my lawn. I like to have a neat garden. I write my posts regardless of the reward because, I like to present my thoughts well and I enjoy writing.

Well, I don't know how to say this, and I don't know how you joined Steemit and consequently Hive, but then for new users that we might want to onboard, we sell out the idea that they could get "rewarded" for their "WORK". So most of them will probably join because of that attracting factor, and not necessarily because they just want to share their work.

I mean if that[sharing their content] was the case, why would they choose Hive or Facebook, Twitter or Instagram were they have good following?

But then, if we tell them about Hive without the reward aspect, why would they want to join?

I'm a photographer. Prior to joining Hive, I shared my photos on Instagram and Facebook. And I'll be honest to say that if I wasn't hoping to get value for those content on Hive, I wouldn't necessarily be here. Seeing as it'd have been that I was even getting value on Instagram. Because prospective clients would see my jobs and book me for sessions.

On the Hive, I don't expect anyone to contact me for a job. I hope for it, but I don't expect it. So for me, the compensation is the fact that I could get upvoted for the content I share here.

However, I've been able to see beyond all that now, as I still continue to post regardless of the reward I get from posting. Also, I've been able to build some level of rapport with other users.

But how many newbies will get to that level of mind development? Especially when the concept that is sold to them is; blog and get paid.

Most came with a "your voice has value", work wasn't mentioned.

Because prospective clients would see my jobs and book me for sessions.

Yes, this is the value of having lots of people on a platform, it starts generating secondary economies. WE aren't there yet, this is an immature industry (social blockchain/crypto) in an immature industry (blockchain/crypto) - the introduction of value changes the dynamic heavily from a regular social media that is fully controlled centrally - including at the development level.

So for me, the compensation is the fact that I could get upvoted for the content I share here.

What about the support of those who share their content? Everyone wants value for their own content without thinking if they should also be adding value to others. What I like about Hive and having stake is that big or small, I can have some impact on the lives of other creators in a very real and direct way.

But how many newbies will get to that level of mind development?

This is what has to be a global paradigm shift and it isn't easy being at the front, as there are no leaders to follow.

Especially when the concept that is sold to them is; blog and get paid.

My point exactly.

What about the support of those who share their content? Everyone wants value for their own content without thinking if they should also be adding value to others. What I like about Hive and having stake is that big or small, I can have some impact on the lives of other creators in a very real and direct way.

Well, to be honest, I wish I could add value too, but right now, my influence on Hive doesn't worth anything. So I don't exactly seek out posts to upvote. However, for posts that catch my attention[like yours, and posts in my niché], I do leave valuable comments].

Right now, I'm mostly building rep and relationships on the Hive. If I get to the point where my influence has value, then I'll begin relating with posts more by upvoting.

Right now, I'm mostly building rep and relationships on the Hive.

How do you build rep and relationships without seeking for posts to upvote?

How do you think a person gets to a point that their influence has value on Hive?

Well, I think organic comments help. Reblogging helps too.

How do you think a person gets to a point that their influence has value on Hive?

For this, I was talking about monetary value.

For example, I see work as having value without pay - for example, cutting my lawn. I like to have a neat garden. I write my posts regardless of the reward because, I like to present my thoughts well and I enjoy writing.

That is some deep bullshit. Not the part about enjoying writing. The part about why you don't turn off rewards to stop draining the pool. Oh wait you didn't say that exactly did you.

Even for me that's been on the Hive for good period of time now, I still struggle with the negative emotions I feel when my seemingly valuable post is overlooked. I wonder how newbies will feel?

This is where we differ because my theory of value says my contributions are nearly worthless. (*) That I earn anything at all on them makes me very happy. I earned next to nothing in the latter half of 2018. But I kept going because I know I would've done so anyway, only on a platform paying me absolutely nothing.

*) I've lived all my life in a 90% Evangelic-Lutheran country. It was always emphasized in all of the religious teaching I received that following expulsion from Paradise mankind was destined to earn its living through sweat and toil. Work was God's punishment for Adam's transgression. Mercy is also a big theme in the Lutheran brand of Protestant Christianity.

Now, I'm an atheist but I'm a Lutheran atheist owing the fact that I grew up in a culture infused with Lutheran ideas by 500 years of indoctrination. The book of Moses says no pain no gain. Earning author rewards on Hive from posting something that billions of people post entirely for free is thus Paradise made possible by the Gods of Token Mechanics who created a system where value is taken from greedy speculators and given to creatives who demonstrate willingness to accept Hive and its everlasting mercy.

Well, we can't all share the same opinions can we? Life would be boring!

But then, we can learn from the minds of people, and I think your opinion is completely valid, and it kinda resonates with my comment at the end where I said I still published posts regardless of the reward I got from it.

But my comment wasn't exactly addressing a me problem. Maybe I'm wrong to assume, but I was also putting the thoughts of other people into consideration. Newbies especially.

For me, I've decided that I'll keep posting. And here's what I tell my friends that get discouraged from posting. Most of them are photographers like me, so I tell them or ask them rather;

What is the value you get from not posting your content on the Hive? They don't answer this question. So I go ahead to them to see the Hive as just another regular platform with the probability of earning a reward from it. If you don't post, you earn nothing. If you post, you might earn nothing too, but there's a slim chance that you would.

But my comment wasn't exactly addressing a me problem. Maybe I'm wrong to assume, but I was also putting the thoughts of other people into consideration. Newbies especially.

You asked good questions. Something like you suggested must be going on in the minds of some people who dip their toes into this place and decide it's not for them. And I've seen my share of people complaining about their rewards all the time while remaining here.

For me, I've decided that I'll keep posting. And here's what I tell my friends that get discouraged from posting. Most of them are photographers like me, so I tell them or ask them rather;

What is the value you get from not posting your content on the Hive? They don't answer this question. So I go ahead to them to see the Hive as just another regular platform with the probability of earning a reward from it. If you don't post, you earn nothing. If you post, you might earn nothing too, but there's a slim chance that you would.

That logic is impregnable. Apart from an insignificant loss of time, there is no cost to sharing your photography on Hive, too. Dropping by to engage is likely to be worth your while if your content is good.

On those platforms, users could post seemingly anything, and if they've got good following they could get thousand or likes and hundreds of comments. Now, those are worth something on Hive not Instagram.

But then, what's the probability that if they joined the Hive and made that same post, that they are going to get the same reaction. To be fair the probability is zero.

as someone who likes your photography, and i seen that you sometimes struggle with lack of engagement (as most of photography people do here, because a lot of the times there is not that much to comment on those posts than "great photos", "really liking this"... and because we usually don't like to criticize (that i find ridiculous, if you see something that could be done better pleas tell) i think you are wrong in that part that i quoted.

try opening new instagram (youtube) account, and not telling about it to people you know. and start posting photos. how engaging would your posts be? you would need to be extraordinary artist and you will still need a push to get some decent following from just posting. seen a lot of really good artists that don't have crazy amount of followers.

You are quite correct @bil.prag. Wether it's on Instagram, YouTube, or here on Hive, working is very essential to finding success on any of the aforementioned platforms.

Putting it this way, I think the problem is the misconception that comes from how Hive is promoted. So most people think that they are entitled a certain level of value to anything they put out.

that was interesting selling point (especially when it was 5$) to get people to join, but it was not a good selling point for people to stay because of expectations.
When i joined in January 2018 and seen some posts that earned 250-500$ i thought to myself "if they earn that with this posts, i will be a millionaire" :D

When i joined in January 2018 and seen some posts that earned 250-500$ i thought to myself "if they earn that with this posts, i will be a millionaire" :D

I laughed so hard at this. I almost wanted to type my reply in Nigerian pidgin. I'd do that anyway. I'd have replied "E be things".

On those platforms, users could post seemingly anything, and if they've got good following they could get thousand or likes and hundreds of comments. Now, those are worth something on Hive not Instagram.

This isn't necessarily correct, they might not earn money from the Instagram company, but they can earn from sponsors, patrons, ko-fi, donations, commissions, ads etc.

Also it seems those creators who earn well on Hive, know how to use other social media and are probably earning something, just without a dollar value on each post.

Presently, I try my best to tell everyone around me about hive but I don't bring them in without getting to know what they need to know about hive.

Screenshot_20200608094323.png

Screenshot_20200608094301.png

These pictures above are what I first share to my friends to tell them about hive.

And you won't believe I have shared the info to over 100 people in my contacts but only successfully registered 16 people who had also made an introductory post.

As I said earlier, I prefer telling them 100% of what they need to know about hive they come in and I will try share some information of how I have done that on my blog today.

Reason why I do that is because, I believe hive is quite complicated. So introducing them to register before knowing what they are going to face in hive will just make them end up creating an account and leaving it domant.

Many of the people that I have shared the news of hive still few reluctant to join because of the high rate of social media scam in my country Nigeria, and I don't blame them they should be scared. I was even scammed this past month over one online investment platform that I thought was legit because they paid few people. The foolish me went to invest my school fees into it 😅😅 and even borrowed money to invest. That period I haven't known of hive and have left steemit since 2018.

Anyway, I will just keep doing the best I can do to onboard more people into hive and also more importantly try grow my account.

As said, the focus on earning can actually turn people away, even those who are in need.

The foolish me went to invest my school fees into it

I don't give financial advice except for this: Never invest what you aren't willing to lose completely.

What do you think is worth more to you, your investment in this or your education?

Presently my education.

Yeah I actually learnt the lesson afterwards.

Thanks for the upvote 🤗

For me this is a hobby, not a job. However when I have a lot of Hive I feel inclined to post a lot. Then, it becomes like a part time job. The pay sucks.

Yep, a paying hobby (even if the pay sucks) is still a pretty good deal. Getting paid to do what you would do for free :)

That's how I feel about gardening. There are a few other things I like to do that I can make a little bit of money from, too.

nice engagement, will read later and downvote some trending posts that have none.

:D

Yeah, I wasn't expecting to spend my day on this post, but it has been filled with a lot of good conversation :)

Well... I've tried to talk to a lot of friends about this possibility (since Steem), but they prefer to believe that this place is a "lie".

lies! All lies! :D

Do you think @sidwrites Hive newsletter is a good idea.

Hive Newsletter

I put the link over on my BitTube channel and the other social media sites I still use. (MeWe,Minds,GAB)

Just wondering what your thoughts on it are.?

I think it is a good idea and more people should be trying to at least passively get the word out. It doesn't have to be big and grand, it just has to slowly attract eyes in to check it out. The more links inward, the better :)

Everyone I know has a different expectations from the Internet.
When I say anything about making a money on some website it is automatically responded by but is it not a fraud.
inviting people who already know something about crypto is much easier.
If a person likes what the website has to offer they will join in and if they are met by the obstacles or difficulties they will still take time to make an account.
On the other hand if a person is not that much interested he/she will stick with the most popular websites.

It's so weird that people still think that, Patreon and Kickstarter have been around long enough for people to know it's possible.

A big majority of people are interested in the entertaining purposes of the Internet not that much about the money making.
I think that the both websites have their users but mostly people around me are interested in the Facebook or the YouTube. Some are only interested in the websites like the Instagram and nothing more.

In those cases they usually care about connecting to people from real life :) And in a lot of cases they keep the profiles private or only for friends.

When I say anything about making a money on some website it is automatically responded by but is it not a fraud.

I get the "this is a scam of some kind" look :)

inviting people who already know something about crypto is much easier.

Yes and they often understand the risks of the investment side too.

I actually have an idea. It's not the sweeping 'empty facebook' sort of idea, but...

Transport a (more) forum to Hive. It'd take front end development, but really forum architecture is pretty basic. Bring them in, give them enough VP to vote and comment and show the money line in the small print at the bottom. I belong to at least three of the things, the largest of which has several hundred thousand members that represent 25,000 comments per day. That group even publishes an on line magazine that is based partly on posts from members...

If they want to be 'just' forum users they can be. If they want more, it's there. The 'forum ownership' could benefit by making some 'money' instead of just paying ever increasing server bills. There's a lot to be said about it, but you get the basic idea. Plus it would be a massive 'instant community'.

It could be a 'softer kinder' way to onboard the general public... And I'm sure we'd get a % as 'full users'.

@TokenBB was meant to do this on Steem, but the project seemed to lose wind in early 2019. A forum would be great and tied in with communities it could be a fantastic system.

These are exactly the sorts of things I'm thinking about constantly and I think you're pretty spot on on all points. I've onboarded a ton of people. Different demographics. Some what I would call "content creators" and some that aren't. Some that are very technically literate and some that aren't.

I have a lot more trouble getting artists to try Hive than I would imagine I would. Also, when I do get them to try, retention is also really difficult. It's not because of rewards either because if I onboard someone, I make sure they get support. I think it has a lot to do with the social proof.

At least from the artist perspective I think that they care more about peers seeing their work than money, and I think that while the way to look at it SHOULD be a comparison to making nothing, which is what you'd get posting anywhere else. The experience becomes, this person made that, and I made this, which ties into the whole seeing how much people are making.

There's a whole complex system here and from day 1, there is zero chance you will understand it all. I see people I know that have been here for months or years randomly say something that shows they have no idea how some things work, so...yea, we've got our work cut out for us.

The other part of this that depresses me sometimes is that I think things like this, which can all be umbrella'ed under UX(user experience) are things that a lot of people working on Hive are not thinking about, not knowledgeable about, not understanding the importance of etc. I still feel like it's what's going to make or break us and not enough people are aware of that.

I think it has a lot to do with the social proof.

It is a funny thing because an artist here can essentially be part of building their future market and live on the cutting edge -isn't that where artists like to be?

The experience becomes, this person made that, and I made this, which ties into the whole seeing how much people are making.

There are a few comments where I and others mentioning putting the payouts behind even a click, do you think it would help from a UX perspective?

there is zero chance you will understand it all.

It take a lot of time and energy as well as an appetite for being uncomfortable in areas one normally doesn't play.

I see people I know that have been here for months or years randomly say something that shows they have no idea how some things work

Me at times for sure. :D

I still feel like it's what's going to make or break us and not enough people are aware of that.

Part of the issue in this area is that most developers are looking at it beneath the surface level and most have no experience designing for average endusers, nor do they care. Good UX designers are rare and even if one develops a good experience, it still has to check into the other technical boxes and - Get used.

thanks for dropping by. :)

There is this misconception about scams online regarding earning money online and people tend to generalise. It takes education and time to convince people or massive money thrown in advertising or getting a celebrity to get on Hive. The masses are receptive to what others do. Others like in many many many.
After discovering Hive, I no longer see how people would prefer scrolling around facebook or instagram with no other purpose than watching what others do and receive nothing rather than choosing to spend that online time wisely. The downfall is the fact that in order to be active, genuinely, on Hive, you have to create and Engage. And rewards do not come instantly. People post lots of stuff outside Hive and get nothing than validation. If they would switch platforms they would win so much more.
If the masses would be on Hive I think there would also be a lot of useless content posted with no regards to quality. And this is one thing for which any platform willing to go big has to be prepared.

The masses are receptive to what others do. Others like in many many many.

Yep, I agree. No celebrity is going to arrive unless there is a setup for them to leverage the platform in ways they can't elsewhere. One of these aspects would be censorship resistance and the ability to build a tailored experience easily and cheaply that integrates a tokenized economy.

I no longer see how people would prefer scrolling around facebook or instagram with no other purpose than watching what others do and receive nothing rather than choosing to spend that online time wisely.

Perhaps it is the "watching what others do" that is the attraction. People are far less creative than they give themselves credit for - most are just sharers of other's creations.

People post lots of stuff outside Hive and get nothing than validation.

"Validation" - The currency of a generation.

Maybe some of the users might end up becoming a celebrity, never know from where and from who it can all start🤔😂 Spending precious time just to get validation is a waste of energy and resources. Every minute counts

I hope so, this is what happened on places like YouTube ;)

Exactly. You never know and I think it has the best chances of happening like this rather than acquiring already made celebrities. I think the future of such platforms allows the user themselves to become known if they have something to say, a story, a work, something of value for others to watch, read, hear. Put passion, novelty and a good story and you might have a lot of not discovered future celebrities right here right now. Still processing, still yet to be revealed. In online platforms the sky is the limit.

Just like a lot of garage bands turned famous, quite a few tech startups turned giants, were developed from very little capital resources and amateurs giving something a go. Hopefully, we have some of those types here :)

I am sure that we do, time will reveal all of them

Who am I to get paid for my random amateur nonsense?
That is rhetorical - I am no one. As are we all.

After these words, I immediately remembered Nietzsche.

I absolutely agree with the view that if HIVE is made more popular, increasing the number of consumers on the platform will cease to be a problem.

Yep, movement in price will bring new users, but they need to understand that the power is to hold, stake and consume - as well as create

Keep writing about investing and new users will learn from you. If they have the patience to read your articles to the end :)

every new platform is "hard" for "regular" people. we are all in a bubble of our friends on fb or instagram. especially for us living in a small town where everyone knows everyone. so my initial public of 200-500 people on there is gone where ever i move, because they will not move without bunch of their friends moving.

I think the other thing that would likely come up is that getting paid to contribute comes with the feeling of work and for most, work rarely comes with a positive feeling.

well for consumers it should maybe be earning with not really thinking about earning. you consume, and earning is just a bonus that happens because you are here.

My take on it for now, people should join Hive to get the feel of crypto. to see how it works, to start thinking about keys, to get the feel of transferring, tipping... and while they are learning all of that, they will see what is the best for them to do on hive.
If we get an app that is user friendly and easy to use, then we could really talk about onboarding people that had initially no interest in crypto.

because they will not move without bunch of their friends moving.

This is where the onboarding of small communities would come in very handy. Rather than bringing them on, use SMTs to tokenize what they already know and who they know.

you consume, and earning is just a bonus that happens because you are here.

Yep, consumer rewards are a big draw, even though they might not be a big earner for anyone. I think once people try, they might actually just have fun in the process of collection, like Farmville :D

and while they are learning all of that, they will see what is the best for them to do on hive.

I agree with this too. There is a lot of value in just the learning through doing.

i still suck at a lot of crypto knowledge but if i did not discover steem at the beginning of 2018 i would know nothing about it. I knew about btc and it going crazy but i would most probably not be in to it, because it is a pure investment. you can hodl or trade, not a lot of people are into it. i like hive because i use it every day, it is not just something that stays in my wallet waiting for better days.

i like hive because i use it every day, it is not just something that stays in my wallet waiting for better days.

Me too. It is a lot more fun having some stake and playing here. I used to game (FPS) a lot, this is way better :)

Reading this makes my heart sing. I feel like I am a basic white girl coming over from Facebook. I am now using (mostly, of course) HIVE pretty much exclusively. And I am getting better at switching my attention here, consuming content here, and getting my news here. It is a paradigm shift. I feel this investment here. Yes, an investment in HIVE, sure. It’s bigger than that though. It feels like an investment in myself, in my work, in something that I feel is worth something.

Why can Facebook make a profit off of me and my consumption of their media site. On those sites I did at one point think — “oh it’s free”. But it’s not. Everything has a cost and eventually the more I understood, the more used I felt.

I know that the real investments come from when you deposit paper dollars and turn them into HIVE. I am just writing and curating right now. And it’s just a really simple process I feel like anyone can do, eventually.

Do you see HIVE as the way of the future of social media? I know how early this is. It’s early. But I feel this power inside this place. I know I am not the only one.

It feels like an investment in myself, in my work, in something that I feel is worth something.

I think if people evaluated how they spent their time and what value it generates, they would top using most social media completely in favor of places like Hive - if they did reflect, that is.

Do you see HIVE as the way of the future of social media?

Yeah I do, whether it is Hive or something else, I can't say, but the potential is definitely here.

Most times when I want to tell someone about hive, i most times try to remove the earning part of it because it isn't actually easy to earn on hive. Your introductory post can go sour and things just don't get easy thereon.

However i still tell them that there are opportunities on hive but I do less hahammering on the reward pattern so they don't get disappointed.

An app that can bring people to hive will do a lot. Splinter lands might do a lot.. An online shop that accepts hive and more

There are plenty of opportunities. An online shop that accepts Hive would likely also accept other currencies - so it would be people on Hive using it, meaning they have to be here already. I am interested in why people don't try at all. It is weird.

I am interested in why people don't try at all. It is weird.

Exactly. I tried to convince a group of friends of mine to move over to Steem in the summer of 2017. Had they done so while completely ignoring any potential to earn and while continuing to shoot shit just like on Facebook, they'd probably all have accounts worth at least hundreds of dollars by now. Come next bull run those accounts could be worth thousands of dollars. Why turn all that down? The response I got was either a flat out refusal to consider moving or deafening silence.

That was such a shocking experience that I don't think I will ever recover from. I lost a great deal of respect for all these people. In that circle of people, some are "critics of capitalism". Facebook is probably the worst possible example of an exploitative giant social media corporation powerful enough to distort democratic processes in nearly every country on Earth - and demonstrably willing to do so. Yet, these people continue flapping their gums about evil capitalists while demonstrating total impotence even as consumers regarding choosing a social media platform. They are not even useful idiots. Just idiots.

Yet, these people continue flapping their gums about evil capitalists while demonstrating total impotence even as consumers regarding choosing a social media platform.

In another comment, I likened this to child labor. People are against it, but also want cheap products.

Except that they are the child laborers themselves.

What do they do when someone comes offering them decent pay? That person gets ignored or scorned at. The worst part of it is that after 5-10 years or however it takes for Hive to grow into a 100x to 1000x bigger platform, the same type of person is the first to express envy and resentment.

Except that they are the child laborers themselves.

Funny eh?

What do they do when someone comes offering them decent pay? That person gets ignored or scorned at.

Stockholm syndrome?

the same type of person is the first to express envy and resentment.

"Why didn't you tell me better!"

Stockholm syndrome?

That's what I keep wondering myself. I think it's likely that it just conflicts their theory of value. It could be countered by saying that there's just a lot of loose investor money around or that the real use case is trading against Bitcoin.

"Why didn't you tell me better!"

LOL

While that's a possibility, the more likely version is some murmur about taxing the whole thing to death or outright banning it.

Fear of the unknown... why would I join when I can stay where I am... Fear of change...

That is definitely part of it. People are far more passive than they think they are. far less creative too. The other platforms can make people feel creative without actually having to do much.

Thank you for this nice post, I will share it with my friends! 🙃

You have friends? It must be a scam ;D

Yes indeed. I met real people behind the chain... 😉

I will have to give it a go some time... Seems risky.

Why risky here in Vienna the numbers of infections are really low.

I mean, just in general. You know... people ;D

One possible newcomer is sitting next to me. 😉

I have been talking to my Urbex comrade, @dizzydiscovery and he now has an account (I created it). He has logged on once to change his background and avatar.

Just a few days ago, I tried to explain what this was and got the familiar bewildered looks. I think he will give it a go, but even techy people can't take it all in and he's not one.

Look at the account that's creating the most daily new accounts, @splinterlands. The players don't know what they have.

It is hard for everyone at the start, tech and non-tech alike. I know lots of tech people who are "bitcoin is a scam" and haven't actually revisited it since 2011.

Do you think that the new accounts are mostly new users, or alts?

After the last one I found which was a scam, I'm really put off trying to help these 'new users'. I think they are mostly bullshit accounts. If I find a real one, it's unusual.

Yeah, it is pretty crushing to be open and then be taken for a ride.

Don't you find it interesting that on Hive, we pay each other? You should, because this is the future of ownership and consumption - a far more direct relationship between supplier and consumer with far less middlemen. This is not the normal order of business on other platforms as while consumers pay, the platform distributed.

Not really. We have various degrees of power to direct inflation where we want but the almost all of the value of those tokens comes from altcoin speculation. Those 200 million liquid HIVE on exchanges are being traded back and forth by people trying to increase their Bitcoin position. The same goes for any alt. The rate "high" of inflation on Hive is meaningless compared to the insane price swings mostly driven by Bitcoin over a long time frame.

As a content creator on Hive, I feel like the smartest man on Earth because I get to impose a tax on that speculative activity. There are billions of social media users at least 10% create content that is just as good, in my estimation, most of whom would be too scared to join Hive whatever idiotic reason among those mentioned by @tarazkp.

My reaction to that:

You don't find it interesting? Or you don't think having a direct relationship between consumer and contributor is valuable?

There are billions of social media users at least 10% create content that is just as good, in my estimation, most of whom would be too scared to join Hive whatever idiotic reason among those mentioned by @tarazkp.

I am not sure about this sentence, so will ask for clarification :)

I do find it interesting that we have such power over each other's rewards.

But I wonder if the rewards are too conspicuous on many front ends for the reason you mentioned. PeakD does not show dollar values but the Hive Token Unit value, which is an approximation of the dollar value a post is worth in total followed by a symbol that is not the dollar sign. That's definitely a step to the right direction. I wonder if people would be less comfortable if you had to click something or hover the mouse pointer above something to see the rewards.

Speaking of the quality of my content, there are millions of extremely prolific content creators of Quora, for instance, who put out quality answers all the time. I'm in a Facebook group for Finnish hobby photographers and many of them publish stuff as good as the best on Photography Lovers here.

But I wonder if the rewards are too conspicuous on many front ends for the reason you mentioned.

Yes, I think so. I was going to put it here, but I think it deserves a separate post. I think it would be interesting to even put the payout behind an extra click and use some other measure for "approval rating"

Speaking of the quality of my content, there are millions of extremely prolific content creators of Quora, for instance, who put out quality answers all the time. I'm in a Facebook group for Finnish hobby photographers and many of them publish stuff as good as the best on Photography Lovers here.

Yes, and some might even earn on it but, they don't earn publicly. It creates a different dynamic in a culture that says "don't talk about earnings"

Yes, and some might even earn on it but, they don't earn publicly. It creates a different dynamic in a culture that says "don't talk about earnings"

Quora pays only a few of those who ask questions and no one who only answers them.

I think the culture of conspicuous earnings should be reconsidered if this place is to become more novice friendly. Never underestimate the power of envy.

Never underestimate the power of envy.

I think this is a topic that is often avoided here. "You're just jealous" is likely one of the big issues between accounts as people compare rewards and perhaps content for current posts, but not the history and consistency.

I drafted a post along very similar lines, it'll be up in a few days - but it asks the question in a different way - why on Earth would you use another platform for posting valuable, often long form content? It is only in the context of one particular sub-section of Internet sub culture only, though!

Looking forward to it. I think the basic answer is, "many don't know better" but even if they do, they want an audience. People are often blind to where the value lays, they chase the unicorns when they are much more likely to get traction among the horses.

Mine focuses on obscurer, less trafficked corners of the Internet - like long form reviews of games on app stores for niche, older games, or video game ranking / aggregation sites - having worked as a professional writer in that space - it amazes me at what some people give away for free.

Re that line "professionals get paid". ;)

it amazes me at what some people give away for free.

True, but we have been conditioned to believe that social approval is all we need. Be a ghetto superstar, don't ask questions.

Me writing "it amazes me at what some people give away for free" made me sad for my photography skills, I do a lot for free there... and I'm a ghetto superstar in that realm, I guess?

and I'm a ghetto superstar in that realm, I guess?

Depends how you look at it. Like it or not, the centralized platforms are valuable tools for creatives. At the same time, one has to look toward the future tools if one wants to last in any industry.

A lot of people think it is hard to earn here - having never having tried to do the same with their content elsewhere.

I think it is hard to be here, as opposed to "earn" here because you have to live with he fact that once its on chain, its there forever!

and for most, work rarely comes with a positive.

For me it is more of a blogging site than a social media platform and I see it as work as I need to earn something from it.
What makes it pleasureable is the reward, for me it's very exciting and the interaction. So you get the "social" side from the interaction. You do get to meet and know people and that is also good.
I will be careful to refer friends, for the reward part. I did in the past and they did not made it.
Other social media platforms are much less work and I use it to keep in touch with family and friends.

The reward is exciting, as it is a gamification layer - even small amounts earned create that excitement. For people looking to earn for a living here, I think that most (especially at these prices) are fooling themselves unless they live in a place where it is very, very cheap.

So you get the "social" side from the interaction. You do get to meet and know people and that is also good.

This generally goes a long way toward the earning. If you think about it in terms of celebrity actors, through their movies they create a relationship with the audience and in time, a studio can "bank" on them attracting viewers, because of that relationship. They don't personally know each fan, but they have generated a narrative.

Other social media platforms are much less work and I use it to keep in touch with family and friends.

Yes. For me, I far prefer the interaction on Hive and I would never spend this much time on Facebook, especially now that I am acutely aware of the damage they do. It is incredible that after all that has come out in the media, people still are there daily, adding their data and being manipulated through their feeds with every click and glance.

Perhaps it is like child labor, no one approves of it - but everyone likes cheap products.

Thank you for your thorough reply.

For people looking to earn for a living here, I think that most (especially at these prices) are fooling themselves unless they live in a place where it is very, very cheap.

It's not very cheap in South Africa, but for us the rand/dollar exchange rate is good. We get R17 for one dollar and that help. It can help to supplement my income.

We get R17 for one dollar and that help. It can help to supplement my income.

This is good to know. I like that I am able to give accounts like @papilloncharity some support and perhaps it makes a difference in a life or two off chain. If prices increase, my support can stay the same and increase proportionately.

I hesitate to recommend Hive to non-crypto people because explaining it puts them off. The magic internet money explanation doesn't work well.

More importantly, there are tax implications that they are piling on by participating. As there are no tools for exporting your Hive transactions, and a serious social media person would have many thousands, then you have to manually do all that. If they are successful and manage to generate considerable income, now they're seriously under the microscope for taxes.

I really do not understand how people, in the USA in particular, are able to be so active on Hive and also have time to manually do the bookkeeping. Either they have scripted something for themseles or aren't really doing the bookkeeping.

So, I hesitate to introduce people who don't realize the crypto implications.

Posted Using LeoFinance

In many places, the earnings aren't realized until they are sold into fiat, which is where they pay their tax. Hive earnings themselves aren't taxable in most cases (afaik) until this point, and exchanges do have tools to export transactions.

My understanding is that Hive rewards are considered income. The price of Hive at the time serves as cost basis. When you sell, you realize capital gains/loss. You would have to track transactions both as income and as basis for capital gains or losses.

This all becomes even more complicated with tokens like LEO. You then have to track the cost basis of LEO to calculate capital gains and also calculate income. I'm not aware of a place with historical prices for all the hive engine tokens. These then have to be converted to something else that has an off-ramp to fiat.

All of this discussion demonstrates the mess I'd be creating in the life of somebody who decides to try Hive. Even if they don't bother tracking their transactions on Hive, they would have to deal with crypto transactions on the exchanges, which adds a layer of complexity and cost to their tax preparation.

I would recommend Hive to an entrepreneur or somebody who is already conscientious about their finances, no problem. But, to everybody else, I'd be cursing them with accounting headaches they do not currently have or want. Most people aren't entrepreneurial like that. They want things to operate like a candy machine, you put in your coin and twist the knob to get your candy.

Posted Using LeoFinance

Where do you live? That is not the case here or in most of Europe.

Its been 10 days since I joined hive, and here's my experience so far.
A lot happened during the last 10 days with me.

  1. I've been following Hive since March, and I've been into cryptos since early 2017, so I personally didnt face too many issues,
  2. I invited some of my friends on Facebook/Twitter/other platforms on to Hive. Here's what happened:
    a) Most of them got excited about the possibility of getting a few extra bucks by posting some stuff which
    other people will like
    b) Most of them really got interested in this project, and appreciated it.
    c) But in the end, 95% of the people complained that its too difficult for them to understand. They didnt understand what is peakd, (just for example), why the same posts can be accessible on peakd as well, they didnt understand how the blockchain is working.
    Secondly, they didnt understand how other DApp on top of hive is working, what is a layer 2 solution like some Dapps are there on Hive, with their own native tokens,
    Thirdly, they didnt know how the new "Money" is getting generated.

These were the challenges faced while I tried to onboard people on to hive.

P.S. This is an account which I created completely new, to really see how many people is getting interest on Hive.
I have my original twitter account (with a different name) having more than 1000 followers, thats where I came to find out these responses.
I found it really hard to onboard new users, even through giveaways and stuff. I now have only 20 followers on this hive account :P

My suggestion: It would be a significant boost if Hive is more noob friendly, and easy to understand.

Maybe we all can help making the experience a bit more noob friendly :)

Thirdly, they didnt know how the new "Money" is getting generated.

Did you answer "magically on the internet" ? :D

My suggestion: It would be a significant boost if Hive is more noob friendly, and easy to understand.

Yes. The entire crypto scene is not so user friendly and the understanding of blockchain takes it to another level completely. Perhaps a infographic "cheat sheet" might help?

Did you answer "magically on the internet" ? :D

Well, not exactly, tried explaining them about the Hive economics. And believe me, may of them didnt understand the forking as well, they were like, they can see the same posts on steemit as well, what kind of sorcery it that, its like Facebook getting copied and made into a clone called facebook1, where the old users can access the data from the old facebook page, as well as the new facebook1 page lmao.... like the newbies are not understanding whats happening here.

Perhaps a infographic "cheat sheet" might help?

Yes, I believe this will help a lot.
Most people believe that this thing is for the "geeky" people already into cryptocurrency and all.

Another point I want to add:
Some of the OGs who have been in space since 2012-2013 also suggested that the top 20 people on Hive own too much Hivepower, and maybe they should organize small giveaways to new people on this platform, who are creating good content, having very less hivepower in their account, to make it a bit more decentralized, some sort of...
some people did say the rich people are getting richer, what about the poor people :P

When I explained it to someone, they saw it as a hostile takeover with a new spinoff rival being set up to compete for the market.

The top20 Witnesses? Some of the top 20 accounts have been buying in over the last year or so to be in the position, like OGs can :) Overall, the distribution is flowing more to the lower end than the higher and has been getting better over time significantly. This isn't a fast process though. There are giveaways and competitions ofr content and activity however and people like @theycallmedan do them regularly. Myself and 3 other orcas have been and will be running various competitions where we do it through delegations.

Give something for free, it gets treated as if it is worthless - it has to be earned in some way.

I have been here for 3.5 years now and the people I know who have started from nothing and stuck through and participated regularly, are doing pretty well. Of course, they still have to offer something the community wants.

Thank you so much @tarazkp for this inspiring and amazing post.
People join hive because they heard that you can earn by just writting and posting anything which is not the case.
Being on hive needs patience and persistance in order to grow,learn and have friends. But many people when they join and they see its not easy money they simply give up.

Personally,hive is a great platform of which if you persist and keep blogging patiently,you can earn so well from it. But for the beggining we always need the support of those who have been there for so long to gain courage that we can.

Being on hive needs patience and persistance in order to grow,learn and have friends. But many people when they join and they see its not easy money they simply give up.

People who want easy money can play the stockmarket too and most of them will be taken to the cleaners. Very little comes easily in life. :)

But for the beggining we always need the support of those who have been there for so long to gain courage that we can.

In my own experience, support for new accounts comes from those accounts generating decent content that at the very least has the impression of value consistently. I can only speak for myself, but I think that for long-term support, it takes long term activity and most people slip up and get complacent, lazy or disillusioned before the real support would arrive.

1 - Until grandma isn't able to create an account and use HIVE, we won't see many people using it (For those that don't take time to think: It's a metaphor about ease of use, user interface and user experience)
2 - As long as the big bois stay on their "closed club", and keep on fighting about small and petty things (specially when new and small users are on the other side of the beating), we won't see too many people staying around for long.

It all boils down to one simple word: inclusion.

edit: Also, 90% of world internet users don't care about centralized vs decentralized fight. As long as they are getting value (not only monetary value), no one cares what is under the hood.

I am guessing you mean "is able" - but yeah, the signup could be better. However, it also has to be somewhat secure and the entire cryptosphere has to do better in this regard.

Not sure about the boys club, but there are users that could spend their energy better perhaps.

edit: Also, 90% of world internet users don't care about centralized vs decentralized fight. As long as they are getting value (not only monetary value), no one cares what is under the hood.

Sure, but look that the state of the internet and the damage "not caring" is doing to the world.

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Why wouldn't someone join Hive?

As a regular user : Because you are giving credibility to the token grinding V.22.2 Cabal at the top of this pyramid for the crumbs you will receive from what is left of the reward pool.

As an investor : You would have to be out of your fucking mind to trust your tokens to the V.22.2 Cabal who have frozen accounts and changed the blockchain's history by removing funds from HIVE accounts during the blockchain's resync by using the Orwellian use of the term airdrop.

Look it up!

https://www.investopedia.com/tech/cryptocurrency-forks-vs-airdrops-whats-difference/

New chain, new rules I figure.

New chain, new rules I figure.

Bullshit. Things are named in science to be able to discuss issues concerning them. You don't just claiming black is now white. Well the V.22.2 Cabal does because they know most users have no fucking idea what a blockchain even is. They can even get away using the narrative of decentralisation. How did all that work out for HIVE?

hive-graph-2.png

The chart looks better than it was on Steem.

The chart looks better than it was on Steem.

That's because they stashed JS' loot in the HIVE SPS system so they could drop $30k on their sweetheart friends with their circle jerked power votes. JS' wealth was not @nulled, it was stolen. And before you start JS is a fucked up little rich kid, but theft is theft.

Ummm - JS never bought Hive.

No one said he did Dude. The chart looks different because that is where his wealth was stashed. Not in an account that would appear on the chart but in a slush fund that they could pass out prizes like the $30k for Justine, everyone's sweetheart. Power to her but shame on them.

Hola, Como la mayoría vengo de Stemmit, donde entre por la golosina de las recompensas y aun me dedico mas a subir contenido que a leer y comentar, pero si me gustaría contribuir mas y promocionar la plataforma, por lo que solicito su autorización para compartir su publicación en mi muro y pagina de Facebook donde cuento con mas seguidores (no tantos, pero si interactuo con frecuencia) Ademas si conoce un tutorial para abrir cuenta en hive.blog que pueda compartir, seria genial.
A la espera de su resepuesta, Atentamente
Felix.

Guest comments would be nice, so people don't have to sign up to start interacting. This would also give some idea of who actually reads the posts and what posts.

Moreover, I feel the biggest issue is still content discovery. It's probably better than before and I like the Peaked interface over original Steemit one. However, I can't search what I'm looking for (the search worked for a week and now 2 weeks no results). On the other social media, there is always something new that catches my eyes, because the algorithms know what to recommend. I'm not saying Hive needs that, but that it's "competing" with that. Average non creator wants the content provided and not have to look for it, the attention retention is low.

Sabes que me puse a pensar luego que leí tu artículo donde hablas que te parece extraño que no haya más personas en Hive, dónde hablabas del internet.
Ciertamente en mi país Venezuela existen algunas limitantes en cuanto al internet, pero también muchos tenemos la suerte de poder disfrutar de él, yo empecé a publicar sobre Hive en mis redes sociales, instagram, Facebook… para ver qué pasaba. Y obvio si alguien lee es porque tiene internet o bajo costo o tiene el dinero para pagarlo, cuando me preguntaban sobre “HIVE” les indicaba como eran las cosas por aquí, pero enseguida me preguntaban “cuánto dinero tenían que invertir, o cuánto me ganaría yo por invitarlos”.
Entonces sí existen otros factores además del internet que impiden que más personas se sientas atraídas por llegar aquí.
Haciendo una retrospección a mí también me paso, cuando inicie mi cuñada me explicaba sobre steemit y no entendía nada, ahora no es que entienda mucho, aún existen cosas que debo aprender, pero sin el apoyo de ella hubiese desistido al verme frustrada por no comprender el funcionamiento.

You know I started thinking after I read your article where you talk that you find it strange that there are no more people in Hive, where you talked about the internet.
Certainly in my country Venezuela there are some limitations regarding the internet, but also many of us are lucky enough to be able to enjoy it, I started to publish about Hive in my social networks, instagram, Facebook... to see what was happening. And obviously if someone reads it is because they have internet or low cost or have the money to pay for it, when they asked me about "HIVE" I would tell them how things were here, but then they would ask me "how much money they had to invest, or how much I would earn by inviting them".
So there are other factors besides the internet that prevent more people from being attracted to come here.
Looking back, when I started my sister-in-law explained to me about steemit and I didn't understand anything, now I don't understand much, there are still things that I have to learn, but without her support I would have given up when I was frustrated for not understanding how it works.